Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Whit on August 30, 2015, 02:25:42 PM

Title: Opinion Sought
Post by: Whit on August 30, 2015, 02:25:42 PM
I have restored several cars and I always have placed Dynamat under the carpeting to provide sound deadening and a tight seal to the floor. I plan on doing that on my '60 Eldorado but I thought I would ask if that might 'offend' purist who may someday purchase the car. I have tried to keep the car as original as practical, but this seems like a positive improvement that would never show.

Any thoughts...?

Whit
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on August 30, 2015, 02:54:08 PM
Not being an item that's normally visible, I doubt it would make much of a difference.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Walter Youshock on August 30, 2015, 03:16:05 PM
Can't hurt anything and it's relatively easy to undo.  Not like paint or putting the wrong tires on the car.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: RobW on August 30, 2015, 03:28:43 PM
Relatively easy to undo"? Have you ever tried to get that crap off? It's nearly impossible!  If you heat it with a heat gun it turns to a gooey mess. If you try and peel it, it just breaks away. Not to mention the aluminum will tear your hands ups.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on August 30, 2015, 04:48:16 PM
I always use it under the carpet . It is never seen and the car is quieter and cooler with it there.  And as far as removing it forget about it, no need.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Walter Youshock on August 30, 2015, 05:15:13 PM
Sorry, Rob, no I haven't had any experience with the product.  I figured it was just an underlay like jute.  Thank you so much for enlightening me.  I guess I'll stay away from it AND the heat gun.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Grant Owen on August 30, 2015, 05:35:48 PM
Dynamat YUCK who wants to lift carpet etc & see dynamat dynamat everywhere . I use a Wurth product 890 100 070 . Here in New Zealand it is the fraction of the price of Dynamat it is just black can be easily moulded with a heat gun it has just as good if not better sound deadening properties as Dynamat. You do not need to cover every square inch with sound deadening as placed correctly it will take the drum & noise away. I have attached a couple of pictures of what I do using the Wurth product.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on August 30, 2015, 06:44:16 PM
The observations and admonitions of those with experience with this product are appreciated, however the OP's question was whether installation of the product would do harm to the value of the car.

Curious as to why it would need to be removed once installed... ???

Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: 76eldo on August 30, 2015, 07:37:44 PM
If it's under the carpet and it has beneficial qualities I'd use it if your car is that far apart.

Brian
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: INTMD8 on August 30, 2015, 09:36:42 PM
I can't see how it could hurt. Who will see it? Has to be better than the nasty sheets of tar it originally had. (that is if these came with the same stuff my 57 had)
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Whit on August 31, 2015, 07:30:31 AM
Thanks to all for your input. I have used it before and I think I will use it again on this car. It indeed is not easy to undo, once it is on you can't get it off. It does make a difference on how quiet the car drives and it protects the floor from rusting from the inside out. I will check on the Wurth product, not one that I'm familiar with.

Thanks Whit
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: David Greenburg on August 31, 2015, 11:55:17 AM
Whit:

If you're doing the car to be driven, I would absolutely use modern sound/heat insulation. Everybody will have an opinion on what to use ( I think Dynamat is overpriced, but you can read for hours on this and other sites about the relative merits of the various products).  If down the road you have a prospective buyer who is put off by the use of this modern technology to make the car quieter and cooler, you can bet they will find a bunch of other "issues" as well.  Do the car for you, not for some future hypothetical buyer.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: cadillac ken on August 31, 2015, 09:37:18 PM
We no longer repaint our cars in Lacquer-- even when that is what the car (insert model here)  had as an original finish.  I would not devalue a car with dynamate or a similar type product installed. 

Those that know me know my motto:  Build the car for yourself, not the next guy.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: N Kahn on September 02, 2015, 10:02:48 AM
Good to know Grant, there's a Wurth near my work.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Caddy Wizard on September 02, 2015, 10:13:22 AM
I like adding modern sound and heat insulation to these cars.  It can't be seen and really makes the cars more luxurious.  I have done it a few times and was really glad I did.  I can't say that about every "upgrade" I have made over the years...
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: gary griffin on September 02, 2015, 10:25:46 AM
I used an advanced version called "Rattle Trap" It is a little thicker and even the doors sound better (More solid) when closed.  I notice in my 1942, they used a product similar to undercoat in several places like the inside of the rear fenders.

I doubt a judge will be peeling the carpets back to see if you are authentic. I am restoring the car to drive!  Judging standards seem to allow undercoat as many dealers installed it. 
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 02, 2015, 10:34:42 AM
I have never heard of any judging procedure in which carpet underlayment was inspected and I'm sure few participants would even allow it if it was.

As far as CLC judging is concerned, it's a dead issue.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: russ austin on September 02, 2015, 08:19:37 PM
A product called lizard skin is great.  It sprays on, and works great. Its in 2 of the cars I fixed up.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Whit on September 02, 2015, 09:40:20 PM
Good thoughts from all. I will check out some of the other recommendations. I have also used a product called FatMat, which is about the same as Dynamat and much less expensive.

Again...thanks to all for the input.    Whit
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: RobW on September 07, 2015, 07:07:52 PM
The problem is if/when it has to be removed as in a collision repair. We sometimes get "ricers" in the shop and this crap is everywhere! Try removing a rear body panel covered in it or a trunk floor, or quarter panel or...well you get the idea.
The sound pads are much better and more OEM looking if done right as in the example above.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Dave Ventresca on September 07, 2015, 11:35:34 PM
what's a "ricer"? Dave
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 08, 2015, 12:01:03 AM
Japanese car?

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: David Greenburg on September 08, 2015, 01:52:18 AM
More specifically, a small, tweaked/ modified Japanese car; often a Civic, Mazda 3, Corolla etc.   
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: 64\/54Cadillacking on September 08, 2015, 06:34:04 AM
Well there's many different cost effective alternatives that peform just like Dynamat but for over half the price. For instance I used this product called Peel N Seal, and something that's even better is this stuff they sell at Home Depot called U-Seal which is thicker feeling and heavier than the Peel N Seal. Both are rubberized asphalt based insulation wrap for roofing, but I have had awesome results in my cars with it including thousands of other people that use it to sound deaden the noise in their vehicles trunks, door panels, floor pan, and anywhere else you can think it works great!

The rubber stuff does add some weight and it really makes a difference in how a door feels when closing it compared without it. For instance, I had to replace a window regulator in my mother's 98 Honda Accord, the doors use absolutely no insulation at all, just a few pieces of carpet padding. So I decided well since the door panels are off, and everything is exposed, I might as well try to quiet the inside of the door the best I can to prevent road noise and give the door a more solid feeling "thunk" upon closing. So I bought a roll of U-Seal, and cover as much metal on the door as possible without blocking any holes, and after putting everything back together, the difference was amazing.

Before when you open and close the door, it sounded like a tin can, and was very light, but after applying U-Seal, the door felt like it had some weight to it, and it close solidly. It also reduced a speaker vibration in the door that would rattle some of the plastic trim, but the rattle was eliminated after sticking on U-seal.

So it really does work, I covered my entire truck and inner quarter panels with this stuff in my 94 Cadillac Fleetwood because I have  two 10 inch subwoofers in the trunk, and the vibration would rattle the outside trim and it sounded horrible. Using 2 layers of U-seal, a layer of foam adhesive padding which is basically A/C Duct wrap you can also get at Home Depot or Lowes, and a layer of carpet padding, the vibration and the sound of the bass throughput the entire car not only improved big time, but it stopped the rattles and the bass sounded tighter. It also reduced the road noise in the trunk area to literally zero.

These Cadillac Fleetwoods are already really quiet cars, but the trunk doesn't have any insulation from the factory, so it never hurts to add sound deadening material to any car especially in a luxury car like a Caddy, even a classic one. The more material, the better, the car will not only be quieter to drive, but it will feel more solid too.

Remember one can easily go through a few rolls of this stuff in no time, and it adds weight. The doors on certain year Cadillacs already weigh a ton, so adding strips of U-seal or dynamat can easily add a few pounds per door, and it "does" make a difference in my experience.

Another tip is to buy a roll of A/C Duct wrap made by Frost King, it's more of a sound barrier, and also reducing road noise in another way and keeps the car better insulated from heat and the cold. It does it by the foam cells in the wrap. The asphalt based products reduce noise by adding weight to metal and reducing the sound waves and vibration from passing through the sheetmetal. While the foam wrap works as an absorber of sound, not as a deadener like rubberized asphalt. So they work differently, but harmoniously.

Using both will give the absolute best results from a NVH standpoint.


Here's some links to the products I mentioned. There's another product which I haven't used, but looks to be pretty good and is highly rated which is called DB-3 it's an acoustical barrier.



http://www.homedepot.com/p/USEAL-USA-Band-6-in-Aluminum-Foil-Self-Adhesive-Repair-Tape-8872AF6/202086180

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-4-ft-x-8-ft-Acoustical-Barrier-DB348X96BX/100663624


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-E-O-12-in-x-15-ft-Self-Stick-Foam-Foil-Duct-Insulation-FV516/100028603
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Chuck Swanson on September 08, 2015, 07:22:23 AM
I did notice on the second link, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-4-ft-x-8-ft-Acoustical-Barrier-DB348X96BX/100663624  a comment from the manufacturer in the Q&A:

"dB Sound Control
July 9, 2015
The material is composed of EVA, not PVC as such there is no plasticizer to give off that familiar "plastic" smell.
Although it may be used in a car, we do not recommend it, maintaining proper adhesion to the surfaces will pose an issue during install. The adhesives required will have a distinct odor that you are trying to avoid.
Thank you! "
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: gary griffin on September 08, 2015, 10:55:41 AM
I was planning on using a product I used in my business. It has a vinyl side and the rest is foam rubber with embedded lead particles. We use it to deaden the sound from noisy sheet metal and fans. I am retired but still have a lot of remnants so I went to my storage and got a roll big enough to do a car. I its heavier per square foot than any of the other products. The problem is that it is that my remnant is over 30 years old and the foam was falling apart. Instead  used a product called "Rattle trap" Made by one of the others but even better adhesion and 80 mils instead of 50 mils. Not cheap but what the Heck, it is a Cadillac.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: David Greenburg on September 08, 2015, 12:46:48 PM
No personal experience with the asphalt products, but during my research on sound deadening products for my car, I came across a lot of complaints  about the smell of some of the products from people installing it in their cars.
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: 35-709 on September 08, 2015, 07:26:20 PM
"Rattle Trap", as mentioned by Gary Griffin is an excellent (maybe superior) substitute for Dynamat and others.  I used it throughout my '35 Cadillac including the underside of the roof and the same with the Mark V Jaguar I am doing now.  Rattle Trap does not advertise like Dynamat and does not have "celebrity" automobile people endorsing it, so, if for no other reason, it is less expensive and performs at least as well.  Readily available on eBay Motors. 
Title: Re: Opinion Sought
Post by: Caddy Wizard on September 09, 2015, 12:56:29 PM
I have used "FatMat" brand of insulation on a few old Cadillacs and have been well pleased with the combination of price and performance.