Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: wrefakis on February 11, 2016, 10:35:33 AM

Title: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: wrefakis on February 11, 2016, 10:35:33 AM
this why I hate where the hobby has gone super rare radio delete brain that bought it at auction should invest in data book ALL RADIOS WERE OPTIONAL
RADIO DELETE !!
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 11, 2016, 12:02:54 PM
And no air either.

As has been said many times before, just because something is rare does not necessarily make it desirable.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1966-CADILLAC-DE-VILLE-191284

Sold at BJ @ 17,600 incl fee.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Coupe Deville on February 11, 2016, 02:54:21 PM
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 11, 2016, 12:02:54 PM
just because something is rare does not necessarily make it desirable.


AMEN Eric!
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on February 11, 2016, 03:00:59 PM
Quote from: wrefakis on February 11, 2016, 10:35:33 AM
this why I hate where the hobby has gone super rare radio delete brain that bought it at auction should invest in data book ALL RADIOS WERE OPTIONAL
RADIO DELETE !!
Bill & others,
Let's call it by it's correct name... RADIO BLANK OFF PLATE.
A delete option only applies when a standard equipment item is deleted.
Bob
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: tozerco on February 11, 2016, 05:37:00 PM
Don't think I have seen so many exclamation marks ever!!!!!
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on February 11, 2016, 05:42:50 PM
John,
You've ben sort of quiet lately. Are you going to the meet in Wang? Bringing a car?
Bob
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 11, 2016, 05:50:35 PM
Plus, it has an "Automatic Transmission".   If a Manual Transmission was available, then the words "Automatic Transmission" are okay.

There should be a set of guidelines for advertisers to follow so things aren't incorrectly advertised.  .

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Scot Minesinger on February 12, 2016, 08:40:52 AM
wrefrakis and others,

I could not agree more that advertising a 66 Cadillac as a rare radio delete option is so stupid.  It is like saying luxury cruise to Bermuda with rare no food option for a premium price.  The person who advertises it is dumb and the person who thinks they are buying something more desirable than a radio 1966 Cadillac is just as dumb - like when two fools meet. 

Gavin beat me to the punch, just because it is rare does not mean it is desirable, and/or it may be rare for good reason.

Relax though, we all thought it was stupid, and I'm sure most others do as well.  I don't think the hobby is going this way.  Take it as a sign the hobby is growing and with any large group there are some dummies in it.

I have a rare 1970 Cuda Hemi convertible with hemi delete option for sale and the it is powered by a 225 slant six.  Color is rare tan/puke green original paint.  It also includes rust coating delete option and for it's age and mileage driving around in Cleveland for 46 years as a daily driver only in snow and salt it is not bad, as you can only see through 50% of the sheet metal.  It is complete with original top which held up well considering it was stored outside and 50% of it remains.  Some rare rodents have made a home in the car too.  It has the rare retrieve your news paper in the rain without getting out of the car option, where you drive over paper and reach through floor boards to get it (this is not to be confused with rusted thru floor pans, or maybe it could be?).  Price is a two million for rare hemi delete option car - any takers?

Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: cadillac ken on February 12, 2016, 09:08:19 AM
I think the mistake we are making with these auction cars is believing that these folks are into these cars for the "hobby".  In reality, it's all about the "flip" and the profit.  Sadly, as I have seen before, even the uniformed buyers at these auctions think the lies they are being fed are true facts. And sadly from my experience, i find most buyers are woefully uneducated about the car they are paying thousands of dollars for.

I really don't believe the bulk of these buyers want to drive a classic and enjoy it beyond being "seen" in it and impressing their friends and neighbors.   
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: TJ Hopland on February 12, 2016, 09:31:02 AM
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on February 12, 2016, 08:40:52 AM
I have a rare 1970 Cuda Hemi convertible with hemi delete option for sale and the it is powered by a 225 slant six.  Color is rare tan/puke green original paint.  It also includes rust coating delete option.  Price is a two million for rare hemi delete option car - any takers?

My favorite is when they apparently use the word rare once for each example of the identical item currently listed for sale in the same place theirs is listed.   If it says rare 6 times there are likely 6 more examples you could choose from.   
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: cadillac ken on February 12, 2016, 09:41:00 AM
kind of goes to what I was saying.  The guys who are car guys don't need to be told it's "rare".  The word "rare" is merely a selling tool aimed at those who are on the fence about buying a car they know little or nothing about.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 12, 2016, 09:57:50 AM
Gentlemen...the seller is simply using any point he perceives (rightly or wrongly) to promote the car.

This does not begin to approach some of the most feeble attempts I have seen used to that end.

It does appear to be an exceptional 1966 Coupe deVille all the same, nevertheless the money paid at Barrett Jackson seems like all the money for it, all things considered.   
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: blugg on February 12, 2016, 11:13:49 AM
Love the $350,000 (+ or -) inflated auction value of a "rare" 59 Barrittz.   

is it worth that?  not even close.  Maybe $70K for a nice sample....however big balls john an tiny penis tim war it out.

Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 12, 2016, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: blugg on February 12, 2016, 11:13:49 AM
Love the $350,000 (+ or -) inflated auction value of a "rare" 59 Barrittz.   

is it worth that?  not even close.  Maybe $70K for a nice sample....

Nice '59 Eldorado Biarritzes are $70K... ???

Where do I sign up?
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on February 12, 2016, 04:54:31 PM
70k for a restored 59 Eldo, thats hilarious. Eric Im with you , when you can find them at that price put me down for a dozen or two.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: blugg on February 12, 2016, 07:54:35 PM


The question is why should a 59 Barritz be $350K?    why should a 66 have a rare "radio delete"?

who comes up with "values" who comes up with "rare"?

subjective IMO

your mileage may vary
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on February 12, 2016, 08:57:34 PM
 I am not saying that was real money on the black eldo but when  they sell 300 sl s for a million bucks all day the long the question becomes why cant a fully restored 59 eldo be worth 350 K  ?  Values for anything are usually set by what someone is willing to pay for any such item and in the case of a fully restored 59 eldo, one has not sold for 70 k in a very very long time, probably  around 1985.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: David Greenburg on February 13, 2016, 04:01:35 AM
Tha '66 with radio delete is unusual, but what makes it much more unusual is that in addition the car has power vent widows and power door locks, options  that were pretty rare for a '66 CDV.  Also indicates that this was not a "stripper" - the radio delete was purposeful, and not just a cost saving measure. Some folks we're philosophically opposed to radios.  My wife's grandfather would not order with radio delete; instead he would buy off the lot (mostly Buicks) and pay to have the radio removed. He thought they were a distraction.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 13, 2016, 09:21:52 AM
Quote from: blugg on February 12, 2016, 07:54:35 PM
The question is why should a 59 Barritz be $350K?

Because someone was willing to pay that - for this particular car.

Quote from: blugg on February 12, 2016, 07:54:35 PMwhy should a 66 have a rare "radio delete"?

Because someone ordered it that way.

Quote from: blugg on February 12, 2016, 07:54:35 PMwho comes up with "values"

The market.

Quote from: blugg on February 12, 2016, 07:54:35 PMwho comes up with "rare"?

Largely a matter of statistics.

Quote from: blugg on February 12, 2016, 07:54:35 PMsubjective IMO

Not really: If a Picasso is worth $5.00 in someone's subjective opinion, doesn't change the fact that someone else is willing to pay $5M.  Market value is defined as the maximum someone is willing to pay for x and that amount is acceptable to the buyer resulting in a transaction.


Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on February 13, 2016, 12:07:58 PM
Eric,
I couldn't have said it better myself. I roll my eyes when I see some of these posts. I guess some people never studied economics & the law of supply & demand!
Bob
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: cadillac ken on February 13, 2016, 12:51:16 PM
to add... the market price is set by the buyers not the sellers.

most sellers don't seem to get the concept of the buyers set the market price, not sellers.  I can't tell you how many times I have actually had irate sellers launch into a tirade when I tell them my offer or that, at their asking price, I'm not interested.  This is usually on cars that have been listed for literally 5 to 8 months at the same price with no takers.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Scot Minesinger on February 13, 2016, 01:27:10 PM
Eric and Ken,

Very true. 

As a frequent seller of cars, maybe two a year (never taking more than a month to sell them), I have no problem if people offer less, far less.  The only issue is if they drive over to discuss it with me early on (for sale only a few days) and waste my time.  If I had a car listed for two months and did not sell, any offer would be considered.

Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 13, 2016, 01:35:51 PM
Unless a transaction occurs - meaning both buyer and seller come to agreement - a market price cannot be established.

It is not correct to say that either side establishes market value.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: wrefakis on February 13, 2016, 02:17:31 PM
again there is no RADIO DELETE a radio was an OPTION

years ago I had a 68 coupe deville with blackwall tires from the factory
RARE
DELETE
BIG BIG $$$
no ,the old guy that bought it new pointed out that he thought the black walls looked better and would not show curb scuffs

the last time restored 59 eldo,s were under 70$ was in 1998 hell they sold a few decent ones at barrett under 50 as late as 2001
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 13, 2016, 02:50:12 PM
I suppose whether the radio (and heater, for that matter) was standard is a matter of semantics.

Radio was part of Basic Group A. To my knowledge, the factory would never produce a car without at least including Basic A - unless specifically ordered.

That makes sense as I would think if the factory started shipping new Cadillacs without radios & heaters for dealer stock, their dealer contact lines would soon be ringing off the hook.

But yes, it is true that neither Basic A (nor radio) was included in base MSRP.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 13, 2016, 03:09:54 PM
In 1987 a local Cadillac dealer sold an all original 70K mile '59 Biarritz for $3,000 that a buddy looked at back in 1978 at which time he only wanted $2,000. (He had traded the car in on a new '72 Cadillac and for some reason stashed it away in his barn at the family homestead.)

The Cadillac dealer told me it was the biggest single mistake he'd ever made. 
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Joe Konarowski on February 13, 2016, 05:59:34 PM
 They make radio delete plate reproductions for other popular cars  now of the 60s & 70s so the desirable ones are no longer rare. This is what is killing the hobby what is real anymore. You can buy everything from the knock off 1968 Camaro body to the radio delete plate. Come to think of it my 30 Cadillac does not have a radio so is it rare and more desirable. I think not.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Jeff Rose CLC #28373 on February 13, 2016, 06:13:42 PM
I wish my Accord had the 6 cylinder engine...... However it has the 2 cylinder delete option.
Jeff
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: blugg on February 14, 2016, 11:46:30 AM

Scarce?   better word then Rare?   who determines what is "rare"?
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on February 14, 2016, 12:02:51 PM
Eric,
Remember when people were paying double list prices for 76 Eldo convertibles, arranging air conditioned long term storage with the idea they were going to retire on the profits.  IMHO automobiles of ALL sorts are made to be driven and  enjoyed for their intrinsic properties (such as performance, comfort, handling etc.).  Just like any commodity such as Pork Bellies, there will be speculators trying to make money on them, but (again) IMHO that has a very disrespectful place in an organization like the Cadillac LaSalle Club.
Greg Surfas
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: cadillac ken on February 14, 2016, 12:14:20 PM

"It is not correct to say that either side establishes market value."Unless a transaction occurs - meaning both buyer and seller come to agreement - a market price cannot be established.

It is not correct to say that either side establishes market value."

Maybe by the textbook definition, but in the real world of cars i couldn't disagree more. 

If you want Starry Starry Night it's truly one of a kind.  There is only one.  Each time that one particular painting changes hands there is a price that reflects the value one person put on that one piece.  There are no other examples to compare.

With 1320 1959 Biarritz's produced, there are a wide range of conditions and therefore "values" that have to be determined.  One sale cannot set the market. And in fact, I believe this misconception is what is driving the hobby in the wrong direction. 

Once any particular model sells for a huge price on TV the viewers at home all believe the price of their car (same model and year) has just been also elevated to the stratosphere. Knowledgable folks in this hobby all know that condition is everything and that sale for big bucks they just witnessed is in fact one sale.

Several years back I was at a Barrett Jackson Auction where a 1941 Dodge Powerwagon crossed the stage.  It sold for 44,000 dollars as two bidders engaged in the all too familiar "my wallet is bigger than your wallet" bidding.  I have never seen another example even come within 20 thousand dollars of that sale price.  Not even close.

So does one sale of an item in which both the buyer and the seller have agreed to price become the "market value"?
If a beautiful original example of (to pick a model and year) 1958 Cadillac convertible is purchased by some strange fate of luck from an unknowing seller for $2500 mean now the market for those cars has just dipped to historic lows?

The media has got the average folks overestimating the pool of buyers with unlimited or almost unlimited funds. 

These sellers constantly find themselves disappointed when there are no takers for their cars at the price they envision.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Big Apple Caddy on February 14, 2016, 12:15:21 PM
Quote from: blugg on February 14, 2016, 11:46:30 AM
Scarce?   better word then Rare?   who determines what is "rare"?

Scarce is more about there not being enough of something to meet existing needs or demand.  That is different than rare which is more about how many of something exists relative to the total, regardless of demand.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Big Apple Caddy on February 14, 2016, 12:17:38 PM
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid"  Greg Surfas 15364 on February 14, 2016, 12:02:51 PM
Remember when people were paying double list prices for 76 Eldo convertibles, arranging air conditioned long term storage with the idea they were going to retire on the profits.

I wonder what the value of 1976 Eldorado convertibles would be today if there truly were no more domestic convertibles made after 1976.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: 55 cadi on February 14, 2016, 12:40:49 PM
I agree with Cadillac Ken.

And another example of inflated pricing is the housing market, if a neighbor sells there house for X amount people assume there's is that amount, yes it does give existing neighbors some sort of increase or decrease, not all homes are done the same, or have the same design inside, (pool, no pool)
And because of this maybe some of that mentality follows over into there cars. They see same car sell for X amount so they think there's is worth the same, but that's not correct.
I say this because I have seen an acquaintance think like this, he had a old corvette and had the same idea on his house when neighbor sold there's and he saw a corvette like his sell for a lot so he thought his was worth that, I looked it up and saw it was a survivor vette low number, not comparable to his.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Big Apple Caddy on February 14, 2016, 01:39:20 PM
Quote from: cadillac ken on February 14, 2016, 12:14:20 PM
One sale cannot set the market. And in fact, I believe this misconception is what is driving the hobby in the wrong direction.

I don't think most buyers view one sale or one auction as necessarily setting the entire market.  There are always going to be outliers.  It can be difficult to assess a market price when so few of an item have been sold or when that item has "unique" features or history.  This is a reason why there can be such price fluctuations.

Regardless of what sellers ask, the market won't be able to support certain prices if there isn't demand (buyers) to pay those prices.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 14, 2016, 02:32:57 PM
Nobody said that simply because a single instance of an a very high price paid defines the market at as a whole. It simply means that a given car was worth x on a given day at a given venue.

As with any quantitative analysis, all values must be taken into account (within a certain time frame) in order to arrive at a reasonably reliable market valuation.

Equally worth noting is that used cars are like snowflakes - no two are exactly the same and it is often for the finest and most documented, most painstakingly restored and/or finest originals to command two, three and in some cases, several times the value of more ordinary examples.

In such cases, duplication of a car with these attributes is near impossible putting them in an entirely different league on the value scale. This is not an exact science and no value(s) can be said to be etched in granite.

Personally I have no problem with anyone investing their money in any way they see fit. This is a free society after all. And just as certain as those buying up new cars for investment purposes, many of those have taken serious losses, if it's any consolation. In fact, instances of "new-car-as-investment" becoming lucrative to any notable degree are very few and far between indeed. And aside of the brief surge of new '76 Eldorado convertibles, I don't think it ever applied to any other new Cadillac.

I doubt hardly any new '76 Eldorado Convertible buyers ever made a dime on their cars; it was primarily Cadillac dealers who benefited from that brief spike. The vast majority of private owners held on for decades. A $13,000 investment in the S & P 500 from 1976 - 2016 would be worth at least $500,000 today. And that doesn't even take into account garaging, maintenance, insurance which could easily push that figure to nearly $1M.  Instead the "investor" has, at utmost maximum, a $50,000 '76 Eldorado - on a good day. And that amount wouldn't even cover inflationary loss alone.

Cheers.

Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: cadillac ken on February 14, 2016, 04:40:31 PM
exactly. I agree with everything you say in this post.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Blade on February 14, 2016, 04:53:19 PM
Some current prices for '76 convertibles:

http://classiccars.com/listings/find/1976/cadillac/eldorado
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: cadillac ken on February 14, 2016, 06:36:58 PM
Tibor: again, asking prices.  It would be interesting in todays digital age if there is a legitimate website that shows actual selling prices of our classic cars as well as the original ad and description.  Now that would be considerably more helpful to establish "market value". 

Did I just give out a new multi-million dollar app?

As a subscriber to Hemming Motor news, I am very interested in the Auction results they print in the front of the book each month where they show a photo of the car, the reserve price and the selling price.  And while I still believe "auction sales" are not representative of market value, it is helpful.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Blade on February 14, 2016, 07:01:54 PM
Ken: here is a chart and summary for actual values for cars sold on auctions, make sure to scroll down a little to see a break down by body styles and other various categories:

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=1635&i=8
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Scot Minesinger on February 14, 2016, 07:04:16 PM
On the value of 76 Eldorado convertibles, given all things equal I don't think they would be worth more than another year 1971 thru 1975.  The 76 Eldorado convertible probably has a higher average sales price, but that is only because more are in better condition.  More 1976 convertibles are I better condition because twice as many were made as other years and many buyers bought and stored them as an investment, and so many pristine examples exist.  It is all about condition, a 1971 Eldorado in better condition than a 76 will sell for more.  Incidental the 71 is more rare than the 76 of course.

Even if the last Convertible made was a 1976 Cadillac Eldorado I still think condition would be primary value determination. 
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Blade on February 14, 2016, 07:48:50 PM
Scott:

Good points addressed, it's not just about how many were made but how many survived and at the end it all comes to what people are willing to pay for them anyway.

I am, however still disappointed about the crazy prices even 70s muscles pulling in, just saw a 1970 and a 1971 Hemi Cuda Convertible sold on auction for 2.6 and 2.3 millions respectively.   :-\

Anybody knows what the highest price ever paid for a Cadillac was? Just curious ...

Cheers!
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Tito Sobrinho on February 14, 2016, 08:49:25 PM
Quote from: Blade on February 14, 2016, 07:48:50 PM
Scott:

Good points addressed, it's not just about how many were made but how many survived and at the end it all comes to what people are willing to pay for them anyway.

I am, however still disappointed about the crazy prices even 70s muscles pulling in, just saw a 1970 and a 1971 Hemi Cuda Convertible sold on auction for 2.6 and 2.3 millions respectively.   :-\

Anybody knows what the highest price ever paid for a Cadillac was? Just curious ...

Cheers!




It is a generation thing! 
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 15, 2016, 08:42:45 AM
A '76 Eldorado Convertible is probably worth the most of all ELC 1971 - 1976 - all else equal.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Scot Minesinger on February 15, 2016, 08:59:05 AM
Eric,

You may be right, but given equal condition 1976 Eldorado convertible and another year 1971 thru 1974 I would pay more for another year (1971-1974).  I like the styling and more power of the 71 thru 74 Eldorados over the 75 and 76.  The last year of production, first year of production, a movie star owned it, and etc. mean nothing to me.  It is all about the car itself (style, engine, options, color combo) and condition that establish value to me.

I forgot to add that if 1976 was the last convertible manufactured ever, then convertibles in general which would all be pre 1976 would be worth more.  If someone who might have purchased a brand new Mustang convertible today had to have a convertible, they would have to purchase a classic, which would drive up demand of a very limited supply. 

That is how I got into the hobby, wanted a RWD V-8 American convertible that seated 5 with a/c, tilt, ps, pw, pl, and etc.  Had to go back to 1970 to buy that and so here I am.  If a Crown Vic convertible was offered, that is what I would be driving now and not be in the hobby - or maybe I would have gotten in anyway???
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Caddyholic on February 15, 2016, 09:18:56 AM
Scott

Could you not get those options on a any gm convertible up until 76?
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 15, 2016, 09:26:22 AM
I would just like to add that so-called average prices, "book" values and whatnot are merely a starting point but little more. Variations in condition, colors, mileage, equipment very often result in prices varying in the multiple 100s of percent between the best and the average. And of course is the variable of external market conditions having nothing to do with quality of the cars themselves.

Collector car markets are also a direct indication of the health of the collector car hobby in general which is directly responsible of a wide & vast support network of collector car specialty services, vendors, parts and so on - which is essential to keep these vintage treasures roadworthy and functional. The existence of these industries would be impossible were it not for the interest in the vehicles that depend on them, not to mention the income it provides perhaps millions - directly or indirectly and last but not least, helping inure the hobby from litigation that would destroy it. Don't laugh - it was very close to happening not so long ago.

That said, I would rather see robust collector car values than the other way around, all day, any day. 
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Scot Minesinger on February 15, 2016, 10:58:53 AM
Caddyholic,

True, GM Caprice, Grande Ville, Delta 88 and Le Sabre all offered the RWD American V-8 that seats 6 that I wanted.  However, in researching what car to buy to meet this need, I knew parts would be a big deal.  Cadillac seemed to have the best parts availability and the scissor top is legendary for problems, so went after Cadillac DVC from 1968-1970 to get the 472 high compression engine. 

The other issue with GM full size convertibles from 1971 - 1975 is low power.  While I could get a 455 with the Grand Ville, maybe a Centurian, or a 545/455 option o the Chev/Olds, the more common engine was the 350 w/2bl.  My friend in high school had a 350 2bl in his Caprice, which was in top tune - I drove it and power was just terrible, a shade better than a 1982 Caddy 4.1 in SDV.  The saying can't push its way thru a wet tissue comes to mind.

Classic car buying is more of being ready for an opportunity than a specific model and year search.  Might have had a difficult time turning down a 65 T-bird convertible (had a 65 T-bird in high school) or a 4 door 1961-67 convertible.  As it happened a red 1970 Cadillac DVC came up for sale in November 2005 and I got a good deal on it knowing the convertible season was over.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: veesixteen on February 15, 2016, 05:03:39 PM
If I had the money, I'd rather drive a $50K Cadillac in #2 condition (any model from 1949 to 1970) than a million-dollar "muscle car" trailer queen ! Just sayin' ...
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Jeff Rose CLC #28373 on February 15, 2016, 05:44:06 PM
Yann,
You hit the nail on the head....... "Drive."
I cant afford better than what I have now, but even if I could I would want something I can drive and enjoy.
Jeff
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Richard Sills - CLC #936 on February 18, 2016, 01:23:43 PM
In the old days, there were people who viewed radios in cars as a distraction to safe driving -- the same way as many now consider cell phones.   They would always have a story about some "kid" who was fiddling with the dial on his radio and ran into another car because he didn't look where he was going.  I think that is why some expensive cars were ordered without a radio, even though the buyer didn't skimp on other options.

The plate that fits where the radio would go is probably a hard-to-find part.  You see them most often in Cadillac professional vehicles, which were more commonly ordered without a radio. 

Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: olds34dude on February 21, 2016, 10:58:18 PM
I bought a 71  Riviera boat tail years ago from an old couple who told me that they had not ORDERED a radio because it was a dangerous device to have in an automobile. Fortunately the buckets , console etc weren't deemed unsafe! Also remember a totally loaded 66  Bonneville, except for a radio- where I grew up in the woods of Vermont, radios were useless in the day, but worked at night! The wonders of AM RADIO! Anyone remember WWVA beaming  a thousand miles north? Dave
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: cadillac ken on February 23, 2016, 11:42:37 AM
Funny as time marches on and things change...  I was reading the dealers' manual for the 1937 Cadillacs.  It stated when addressing the optional radio that "the myth that a radio is an unsafe distraction to drivers has long since been exploded"-- or some such wording.

So even in 1937 they were addressing the concerns that some buyers would have opting for a radio when ordering their new '37 Caddy.  Maybe why most limos were delivered with the radio delete?  No well to do buyer wanted his Chauffeur distracted!
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Evan Wojtkiewicz on February 24, 2016, 01:23:51 PM
You think that a radio delete is a rare option? Have I found a hyper rare '69 DeVille on craigslist for you! You see, it was ordered with a '70 front end! The buyer (possibly Johnny Cash) traveled forward slightly in time to get a '70 front clip for a new '69! Never mind that the front is a different color, that's just another rare two-tone option.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/5443689102.html

This ad has the trifecta of craigslist phrases including "no low ballers", "rare options", and "restored this car sells for 30,000 +".

Perfect for you, Scott!
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Scot Minesinger on February 24, 2016, 07:23:23 PM
Evan,

Thanks I will pass.  This has the look of a parts car more than anything else unfortunately.

Scot
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: cadillac ken on February 25, 2016, 10:21:27 AM
Quote"restored this car sells for 30,000 +".
/quote]

Unfortunately it will take 3x that to restore it.  Completely lost on these guys.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 25, 2016, 10:34:24 AM
Ordered from the factory with a 1970 front end and a 1969 rear end...

This is a ten-shovel job.  ::)
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: Evan Wojtkiewicz on February 28, 2016, 08:02:48 PM
I almost want to call the guy. I'd like to find out if he's just selling the Kool Aid or drinking it too ;D.
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: tozerco on February 28, 2016, 10:05:24 PM
Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on February 11, 2016, 05:42:50 PM
John,
You've ben sort of quiet lately. Are you going to the meet in Wang? Bringing a car?
Bob

Purely so I can 'fess up BEFORE Bob names and shames me on this Forum, he did catch me superbly with his pretend phone call about military flatheads last week! Sorry I won't be able to return the favour in Wangaratta Bob but hope you thoroughly enjoy your visit anyway!

Regards,
Title: Re: 66 coupe bought at barrett now on ebay super RARE radio delete!! more BS
Post by: 57eldoking on February 29, 2016, 06:32:49 AM
Quote from: Blade on February 14, 2016, 07:48:50 PM
Scott:

Good points addressed, it's not just about how many were made but how many survived and at the end it all comes to what people are willing to pay for them anyway.

I am, however still disappointed about the crazy prices even 70s muscles pulling in, just saw a 1970 and a 1971 Hemi Cuda Convertible sold on auction for 2.6 and 2.3 millions respectively.   :-\

Anybody knows what the highest price ever paid for a Cadillac was? Just curious ...

Cheers!

Postwar I believe 1957 Eldorado Biarritz #1 is a strong contender which sold for $649,000 back in 2013.

(http://assets.blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2012/12/1957BiarritzNo1_01_1500-700x433.jpg)