Really dumb question but it is 11:00 at night and I have been hammering on the Caddi.
Been having some fueling issues on the 1957 CDV. Basically at anything under say 50% throttle car runs fine. About that it falls on its face. Been thinking it was bad gas or the secondary's not kicking in.
Found that the upper gasket on the fuel pump was completely shot. like holes in it on the inside. Made one out of ETOH resistant rubber and reassembled it and seems to be running like a dream now. Is the upper chamber on the 57 fuel pump need to be completely sealed. Used to working on much older stuff where the lower just forces the fuel up and the one way valves are in the same chamber and it is completely sealed.
This is the seal that I made a replacement for, it was venting inside between both the chambers. No leaks outside the pump though. Seal I made is pretty hidious.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFDCyuU3.jpg&hash=d084ebdd2e1b0789842adda2349ac6c71011e23f)
At the outlet of the fuel filter, you have 2 fuel lines. I'm assuming one is going to the carb; where is going the other one? I suppose your car is equipped with A/C and there is a vapor return line. Unfortunately for you, the fuel filter you have is not for this application, it's for cars without A/C.
With your set-up, it's no wonder than you cannot have full power, about 50% of the fuel is going back to the tank if my assumption is right...
I never heard that some 1957 cadillacs had a vapor lock return line .From what year on is this the case ? Thanks
Since 1857 on cars with A/C.
Cadillac fuel filters are installed opposite the way yours is. The bowl should be up. The return line was attached to a fitting on the bottom of the filter body.
I was going to install mine without a fuel filter once I get mine in around mid April. Fuel tank and lines are new so I'm not too concerned with particles in my gas.
When the car was new, tank and lines were clean too...You may refuel with dirty fuel, especially if the tank at the refill station is almost empty. I would not take that chance.
To Walter Youshock: you are correct about the position of the bowl. However, this is more logical to have the bowl down: you see if there is dirt and, when you are removing the bowl, the gas stay in...Unless there is a "Z" at the pump outlet, the standard position of the filter is like you explained because the bowl cannot be down due to the limited space.
That photos is just someone else's installation. Easier then trying to get a photo online at night when you are covered in grease and tired. Mine is OEM and by the book.
Just need to know if the upper chamber requires a air tight seal for my sanity.
Quote from: wearymicrobe on March 02, 2016, 09:59:05 AM
Just need to know if the upper chamber requires a air tight seal for my sanity.
Yes, it must. Otherwise, the fuel is not getting to the carb but in the engine compartment.
Does anyone know if the fuel filter were an item originally installed from the dealer? There are replacements on the interwebs but it would be cool to see some photo evidence
Yes. Fuel filters came installed from the factory.
Quote from: Walter Youshock on March 02, 2016, 12:12:25 PM
Yes. Fuel filters came installed from the factory.
Correct and the Factory ones were "stone" material; not pleated paper.
I think the posted picture is of a dual quad setup. You can see the gold valve cover and I think also two carbs in the background. The T fitting should have been installed infront of the front carb though, not on the filter. It is also installed upside down.
Bowl up would seem like a really odd orientation for a filter. Down you would think would be better for sediment and water.
You're right TJ, it does seem counter-intuitive when you think about it. I was a little quick in just trusting my memory on this one. I couldn't recall ever seeing those two 90 degree elbows which are required in order to flip the filter and not have clearance issues. This screenshot is from a 58 instructional video on the new 3x2 carb setup clearly shows the filter upside down. Why would it be different in 57?
The return hose from top of the filter is also very visible on this AC car.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmidcenturycadillacs.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D712.0%3Battach%3D5682%3Bimage&hash=68d9001726f370ea4538a996af70bbf1c1eb6e57)
Cool photo thank you!
Just curious but what is the size of the threads for the inlet/output tubes for both the pump and the filter?
Thinking about it, the posted picture probably is of a 58 3x2 setup! It matches the factory photo with the T-fitting immediately after the filter.
Quote from: 57eldoking on March 02, 2016, 01:55:21 PM
You're right TJ, it does seem counter-intuitive when you think about it. I was a little quick in just trusting my memory on this one. I couldn't recall ever seeing those two 90 degree elbows which are required in order to flip the filter and not have clearance issues. This screenshot is from a 58 instructional video on the new 3x2 carb setup clearly shows the filter upside down. Why would it be different in 57?
The return hose from top of the filter is also very visible on this AC car.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmidcenturycadillacs.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D712.0%3Battach%3D5682%3Bimage&hash=68d9001726f370ea4538a996af70bbf1c1eb6e57)
. . . and look - The Fuel Pump is not painted blue; but rather natural as mine was new from the factory in 1958!
and it is a slant top, as was my original.
What are those I see? TOWER STYLE HOSE CLAMPS
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on March 02, 2016, 02:48:42 PM
Well, since you brought up the authenticity issue the hose clamps are fair game now! What are those I see? TOWER STYLE HOSE CLAMPS
I saw that also, but have seen many more 1958's including one "original" one now on eBay with the same worm type clamps as mine and several others I have referenced in the past.
I don't understand why a bought brand new 1958 Cadillac is constantly challenged. You should be using my car for a reference since there are very few members who have a purchased new 1958 on this Forum. JMHO
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadillac-Fleetwood-/222038609027?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33b2884c83:g:ixIAAOSwKtVW1Lsv&item=222038609027
On the car in the link posted, it is glaringly obvious that work has been done under the hood therefore the entire authenticity of the engine bay is questioned.
I challenge your claim because I have seen more factory evidence of tower clamps (the photo below is the most glaringly obvious piece of proof) than any other style of hose clamp out there. Plus, known GM practices at the time using tower clamps across the line also provides more credence to the argument that tower clamps were used.
The skeptic in me has to side with factory proof. Period.
The only thing that would convince me otherwise of what was factory installed on your car or any other 1958 for that matter would be an engine bay photo taken by the dealership at the time of delivery from the factory to the dealership. That would be the only evidence concrete enough to contradict the factory printed materials I have seen to date.
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on March 02, 2016, 03:11:24 PM
On the car in the link posted, it is glaringly obvious that work has been done under the hood therefore the entire authenticity of the engine bay is questioned.
I challenge your claim because I have seen more factory evidence of tower clamps (the photo below is the most glaringly obvious piece of proof) than any other style of hose clamp out there. Plus, known GM practices at the time using tower clamps across the line also provides more credence to the argument that tower clamps were used.
The skeptic in me has to side with factory proof. Period.
The only thing that would convince me otherwise of what was factory installed on your car or any other 1958 for that matter would be an engine bay photo taken by the dealership at the time of delivery from the factory to the dealership. That would be the only evidence concrete enough to contradict the factory printed materials I have seen to date.
Now that's just being silly. Below is probably one of the most original (unmolested) 1958's out there - not mine:
Nice photo. Where's the evidence to prove that's not a replacement hose? The soiling and patina on that hose does not match the rest of the other rubber components in that engine bay.
Looking for factory documented proof is not being silly.
Dan -
What I thought was being silly was providing "an engine bay photo taken by the dealership at the time of delivery from the factory to the dealership." No dealership would do that or have that.
I'm exploring some additional avenues, but it's difficult when even the Shop Manual has no pictures of the hose clamps. I think we both would like to know the answer. It's quite possible multiple hose clamp types were used at the Factory - I don't profess to know.
Why can't both type of clamps have been used during the 58 model year? The car in an instructional video is bound to have been an early production car which may explain the issue.
I concur with Dan. The hose does not at all look original and the clamps are much too shiny for having been in place for 50-odd years.
I am curious as to why there appears to be a trace of blue paint on the lower edge of oil filter cover (center area facing the camera)... ???
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 02, 2016, 05:36:52 PM
I concur with Dan. The hose does not at all look original and the clamps are much too shiny for having been in place for 50-odd years.
I am curious as to why there appears to be a trace of blue paint on the lower edge of oil filter cover (center area facing the camera)... ???
The fact that this car has the identical clamps as mine (mine are nice and shiny also) as well as other 1958's I have seen at Hershey and Carlisle leads me to believe this is not just a coincidence. In my case, I know them to be original, but no amount of posting is going to convince anyone. I am trying to research proof.
And once again a thread about 1957s has become an argument about 1958s.
Well, the picture displayed was a 1958 3x2 engine with the slant top fuel pump.