There have been countless posts discussing either the lack of repair facilities or the problems experienced with repair facilities we try and find for our cars. Lets look at this realistically. There are probably no more than what, say 100,000 "classic" Cadillacs between the years 1935 and 1985 on the road (or in garages) today. There are somewhere around 35,000 cities and towns in the US, and I think it is fair to divide the cars relatively equally, since the per capita "classic" car ownership is greater in small cities than in large metropolitan areas. That works out to something less than 4 classics per town. Now let me think. If I was going to invest a lot of money and a large amount of my talent and skill in something, would I plan on a business with a potential of 4 clients? Hmmmm.
I think this subject has been beaten to death. The original idea of a car hobby was to find a car and fix it up yourself and keep it running by your own hand. If for what ever reason you are unable to do the mechanical work or just don't want to, the thought of searching out and finding and paying a lot of money to one of the hand full of reputable acknowledged specialists that can should not even be an issue for discussion.
Just my thoughts
Greg Surfas
Greg,
Agree with your post, because it has proven true that we generally have to fix our Cadillacs ourselves if it is to be done correctly. Agree with your reasoning on why few shops exists - low demand. However a couple of things to consider:
1. The Hobby would have way less participation if only those that worked on their cars themselves participated. In the Potomac Region of about 180 CLC members, there are maybe 5 or 10 that do their own mechanical work and left to do it themselves we might be down to 5% of our membership. I think the hobby has room for people who do not want to perform their own mechanical work. Plus not everyone can do everything, as for example I'm not good at sewing interiors.
2. The Washington DC area has enough classic cars to support a good classic car shop or two, using your math our area has about 5% of the population and so that might be 5,000 potential customers, 4,500 who do not perform their own work. The problem in DC area is the irresponsible society Bruce coined, which is so right. The DC area can thrive on no repeat customers, and it seems does not have incentive to do a good job ad treat a customer as they would want to be treated. Further to that the DC area has too many "spoiled" people and their customer service level expectations are so high. There are a few nice shops for classic cars in Hershey PA area because that has an extremely high concentration of classic cars.
3. The best paying job a recovering drug addict with no skills can get is an auto mechanic in our area. They go to school for six months and off they go to a shop, as employees are so hard to find in our area. The skill level is so poor in normal shops. Heck, I even bought my own tire mounting and balancing (road force) because tire shops put their least experienced workers on this vital task. Even the dealers are inept: Two weeks ago receive a recall notice on my 2006 Dodge Charger w/Hemi for an air bag inflator - they hound me with a text and e-mail daily, and brought it in yesterday which is a pain, need a ride back and etc. At the dealership they tell me they do not have the parts to repair it. I just wasted two hours of my time that I will never get back!
I agree with this topic. However I got into the hobby with the idea that other would fix my classic and changed over to doing everything myself out of necessity. It has been a lot of fun and rewarding, so sure glad it happened that way for me. Also, I have classic car owners from as far away as NJ bringing their cars to me to fix climate controls and other items. The first climate control repair was on a 1975 Fleetwood in 2009 that is still functioning 100% 7 years later. The problem was the electrical connectors on programmer were bad and I repaired them. This car went without climate control from 1985 until 2009 without climate control! It was extremely rewarding when I found that problem and fixed it.
Glad people are in it though who do not work on their cars, as otherwise Jay Leno might not be in the hobby along with many others - the more the merrier!
Scott,
5% of the population would be 16,500.000 people. I believe the population of your area (greater DC Metro) is about just over 6 million which would be 1.8% which would work out to less than 1800 cars in this category (Cadillacs). The entire population of Virginia is just over 8 million. Again looking at this not for any one specific region, but to answer the question of why there aren't more repair shops capable for one reason or another of quality work on our cars. I'll bet there are a lot more shops that can work on Ford and Chevy classics. There are a whole bunch more of them out there.
If we want something unique we need to accept its uniqueness for all their aspects.
Greg Surfas
Greg,
Sounds like you have too much time on your hands, some of us would love to be able to wrench our own vehicles but unfortunately life gets in the way, I personally would rather pay someone else to maintain my classic than give up what little personal I time left for me and my family after working, chores, lawns, ect.ect. Instead of you quoting some long winded statistical mumbo jumbo that may or may not be accurate you could have shortend your reply to "I don't know" this would have saved you enough time to go to your garage and check the oil in your classic. And by the way when the the original idea of a car hobby was born they had wodden wheels and no tops or doors. :(
All good points, but seeing how a classic car tends to spend much of its time with a mechanic, mechanics make a lot more per classic car than per a modern car. So that by itself could justify investing in training your staff on classic cars.
Plus, I bet that a lot of mechanics are good enough to pick up enough knowledge/experience or figure out new stuff even if they don't work on the classics on a regular basis.
Leonard Grayver
Whew,
Mr Lachance, it looks like you have been eating meat again. Stick around the forum for a while and you will see the question repeatedly asked that was the subject of this thread.
Why are repair agencies for our cars hard to find?
Not whether to do the weork yourself or not, but Why are repair agencies for our cars hard to find?.
Not to be defensive, but to me cars have been an intregal part of my life for the last 60 years, and I enjoy working on them as well as driving and racing them.
Too much time? Yup I've worked enough, saved a bit and now the only thing on my must do is spend my money before I die.
As far as the statistics, if you look at the subject the numbers identify the answer. "Mumbo Jumbo"? Is that a technical term?
Len,
There are more good classic car mechanics in the LA area than just about anywhere else. 20, 30 and 40+ year old cars are nothing unusual (the ages) in So. Cal
Greg Surfas
I can always count on a "crispy" (my teenage daughters latest lingo) comment from you Greg even when we agree - we are friends. The DC area I maintain does have about 5% of the classic cars, and most of the population of DC, VA, De, MD, and WV are centered enough around the Capitol with higher affluence than average to reasonably presume that a classic car shop could be supported. No one has capitalized on it, and no one is willing to pay what it costs to actually do the work (an hour to loosen a frozen bolt without breaking it for example!!??).
rlachance, I agree, but what I did was pay people to cut my lawn (it used to be my fitness program) so that there would be time to work on cars. Sadly, never been very happy with the work of other shops and maybe because I'm too much of a perfectionist. We have to do what makes us happy. Really enjoy fixing something. There is a satisfying feeling when something older really works well.
It is not a matter of money, but finding a place that can do the work, and have not found any place yet. One kind gentlemen in his 80's told me he was going to sell his 1970 Buick if he could not find anyone to fix his a/c. Turns out it was just a dash switch - no refrigeration issues. It was so cool to fix it for him.
Back to the main point, no sense asking if there any good shops to work on our classics, because most are terrible. When someone asks about a good shop for older cars in some area of the Country on this forum, I agree with Greg there are none (or very few due to low demand) and no point in asking. Best to just learn and do it yourself - after all if you are smart enough to acquire the means to own a hobby car, you are probably smart enough to fix one - just need to read.
For me it is a matter of money. It certainly helps that I ENJOY the hell out of working on it. Not really sure what I will do as I get older and may not be able to do the things I used to. Bit the bullet and had the engine done by just about the best recommended place in town-and it has been/still is a mess.
I have accumulated a fair amount of tools for a shadetree guy but I have no real way to lift the car. Just after I got it I traded a guy a ride in the plane for access to his brother's lift to replace the seal on the pumpkinhead. I don't have that access anymore tho.
I am thinking of pulling the oil pan. Not overly excited about it but it will probably be fun however the jackstands only go so hi-- and I don't fit under there like I used to (donut anyone?). Not sure what I will do in 20 years when I cant do this anymore..... And it's too damn far to drive all the way to Scot!
Jeff
Don't worry Jeff. Scott will be buying a roll back soon so he can pick up customer's cars from all around the country.
Greg Surfas
Jeff,
I do all my work on jack stands. The shop manual always states for 1970 Cadillacs "raise on jack stands", never raise on lift. Accordingly, executing repairs with specified shop manual practices. There is no way you need anything but jack stands to replace the differential gasket. Very likely the oil pan gasket was replaced with engine re-build-should not be required.
If you want to pull the oil pan, it easily can be done on jack stands, and I have done it several times. You will need to drop starter, flywheel cover, center link, and Y pipe. Then make a strap to connect to two top bolts of compressor, loosen the front engine mount nuts almost all the way, and using engine crane pull engine up about 1/2", then the oil pan will come off. This is kind of a job if exhaust is not real new.
Also have removed transmissions by raising car up real high and lowering trans down on to plywood and sliding it out from under car. There is no service you cannot do with jack stands on a 1970 Cadillac. Would a lift make it easier - maybe?, but it takes up a lot of space. Of course I use a floor jack, not a bumper jack to raise the 1970 Cadillacs.
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on August 18, 2016, 12:10:11 AM
......I do all my work on jack stands. The shop manual always states for 1970 Cadillacs "raise on jack stands", never raise on lift. ....
Hang on, you have to raise the car by the Jack first, then use the Jack Stands. ;) But, I have actually used the screw-type Jack Stands to raise the car a little higher than the jack will lift.
I only used to use the single post hoist an my old garage, then they got a four poster, then the two posters, which I detest.
Our cars, well, mine, were designed to be lifted by the diff and front crossmember. The 2 posters are no good for convertibles of old.
Bruce. >:D
Steven,
My negative attitude is based upon reality. There are good paint/bodywork shops and good upholstery shops in this area and I am loyal to them. There are no mechanical shops (that I know of) here that are any good. With 180 members in our area looking for shops to work on their a/c or other problems, no one has found a good one yet. Things changed in 2008 too with recession.
I have heard that the antique car hobby is well supported in Florida. It also in Hershey, PA area too. Just not in DC area for sure and the population and quantity of classic cars could justify its existence. Heck, I have half considered starting a classic car repair shop as my retirement income, but may not be as relaxing as will be required.
Guess in a nut shell, I'm trying to agree with Greg that there is low demand in general for shops, it is a good idea to do the work yourself, and (me only) there are very few good shops (none in DC area).
It was the rear pinion seal and a lift was much easier.
As far as the pan---crap. Manual doesnt say anything about lifting the engine. I dont have an engine hoist. I was concerned about getting the steering out of the way because it is original and I wasnt sure if I could get it loose. Then there is the starter (not hard but just heavy lifting the darn thing). Will have to rethink this if I need.an engine hoist.
Jeff
Jeff, here in the Atlanta area some tool rental shops will rent an engine hoist. You do need one to change motor mounts on a '49 like mine and probably your car and, from what I've read above, to drop the oil pan on your car.
Scot, also here in the Atlanta area while there may be shops that specialize in old cars, I don't know of any. (It's a metropolitan area of several million, maybe as large as the DC area.) However, there are a number of general auto repair shops, auto machine shops, driveline / spring shops, a wheel alignment shop, a hydraulic hose shop, even an old time independent auto parts store that in addition to their main business of modern cars also like to work on old cars. Many are honest and competent. There's even an old curmudgeon who is a Hydra-matic genius. To gather this info, not long ago our Peach State Region president, Doug Bailey, sent out a questionnaire to all our members asking them to list shops etc. that they would recommend. Since it was the combined knowledge of 100 + guys, he got back a comprehensive list. So maybe in your area there are some hidden gems and perhaps you could persuade someone in the Potomac Region to do some research like that.
Jeff,
The manual does not say to lift the engine, but it makes the job way easier. There is about one thousandth of an inch clearance to get it out, and it scrapes against gasket dislodging it on reinstall. The folding engine cranes like I have cost $250 brand new. They are also handy for lifting heavy things, such as when I loaded my parents 800lb safe into a pick up truck, loaded a 36" metal working lathe on to a truck, and etc. One or two uses and a rental is paid for. Lifts can make things easier but I don't think it is difficult laying on my back in a restful position either. The starter is not heavy at all when you are laying on your back - easy to hold in place and install. I have never worked with a lift.
Jay, not a bad idea. Just people who pay others to work on their car and say they are great usually are not great judges of what is good work or not. I have looked over some "great" work before and it was not that good. One of my friends had the shocks in his 67 Caddy replaced and after that there was a whistle squeak - beyond annoying. Turned out that the washers used on top of shocks contacted the upper control arm when it rotated about shaft during normal driving. I replaced it with a smaller washer and no more squeak. He said it was a great shop. If you can't even change the front shock on a 65-70 Cadillac you might as well quit.
Scot, although the subject is why repair places are hard to find, I'm one of the minority you mention who works on their own car. Nonetheless, having said that, there are still certain things I can't or won't do myself. As I mentioned in my posting in your other thread on why we work on our own cars, I occasionally take it to pros for messy jobs like changing the anti-freeze or exhaust work, or jobs requiring special equipment I don't have such as wheel alignment, driveshaft rebuilding or rear spring work.
The guys who contributed to the research we did on repair shops in the Atlanta area included both kinds, those who work on their car and those who don't. The guys who are more knowledgeable contributed the most qualitative comments if you want to call it that while the others provided the quantity. The results were gone over carefully and it was concluded that there are a few good men (and women too) out there. My only point is that while there are plenty of charlatans, incompetents and mere egotistical jerks in the auto repair business, both for modern as well as old cars, if you look hard enough you can find a few who are nice guys, competent, honest and who like to work on old cars. From the point of view of having worked as a professional mechanic in my long, lost youth, I certainly think that is true.
Hello all,
Jay - I like the fact that you polled your members and compiled a reference. I will suggest this at the next meeting of the Potomac Region. Many members of the Potomac Region (Scot included) are very busy with planning the GN17, so I don't know how much progress the Potomac Region could make on such a list as the one you compiled, but I think it would be a worthy endeavor, and I would be willing to help in the effort.
Jeff - If I recall correctly, you can raise the engine in the car without a hoist. Remove the through bolts securing the motor mounts to the frame/bracket. Place a 2 x 4 under the harmonic balancer and use a bottle jack to raise the front of the engine a fraction of an inch. If you need more lift, you may need to loosen the transmission mount and any other engine attached linkages that could bind. Be careful. Be careful too when using jack stands. If your driveway or garage floor are not near-perfect (smooth, level), you may want to use wood blocks under the wheels to support your car while wrestling parts from underneath the vehicle. Four thousand pounds of metal, and gravity, are unforgiving.
Scot - Your first stop after acquiring a rollback should be San Antonio :)
Pages 0-6 and 0-7 of my '67 shop manual state that the preferred method of raising a '67 rear wheel drive Cadillac is to use a lift that contacts the flanged area of the front lower control arms, and the rear axle, or a lift that contacts all four wheels. The manual also states that alternatively, a frame engaging lift can be used on specific areas of the frame including the areas just behind of the front, and just ahead of the rear, wheels, the center of the front cross-member, and the differential. I think the '70 frame is essentially the same as the '67 (fully boxed, perimeter type) frame, so I think the '67 lift instructions would apply to the '70.
Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter
Even though it is tough to find a reputable shop, once one is located, the first item of contention seems to always be the price the shop charges.
As a shop owner I hear the horror stories. I get that. Yet with a spotless reputation and over 25 years in my shop, Customers seldom seem to understand what they are paying for. As my mentor told one of his customers' many years ago: "remember, this is your hobby, but it is how I make my living.
Most customers are very unrealistic about what they "believe" they should pay for when seeking professional service. It is important to understand that what a person wants to pay for something is in no way a valid reason why a professional should charge for their service what the customer is comfortable with. If I had a dollar for every time I heard the words; "that's more than the car is worth"... Folks don't seem to understand that as a shop that is irrelevant and has no bearing on how much must be charged to meet overhead and make a profit.
When folks see our paint work I'm always asked what I charge to do a "paint job". They tell me the local bodyshops don't want to paint their (insert model and year) old car. I always ask why do you think that is? And then I explain that most times for what someone expects to pay for a "paint job" it is far less than the job can be done for and simply not a profitable situation for the bodyshop. Problems with rust, previous poorly done repairs, and a whole laundry list of other liabilities turn off most body shop owners as a job that just requires way too much aggravation. They make more (easier) money on collision repairs. They get paid by the insurance companies and almost never have to "chase down" their payment for the job. My favorite saying is folks always say they don't want a "show paint job" --- until they come to pick the car up. And for the record we do not paint cars. We only paint projects we have done.
The same goes for upholstery, repairs to mechanicals, etc.
The point here is that perhaps not only is there simply not enough "old cars" to work on to maintain a fully equipped shop with qualified well paid professionals, most old car folks don't seem to want to pay for a fully equipped shop with qualified well paid professionals-- even thought that's what they say they are always searching for.
Ken,
You have hit on one of the main reeasons those that could do this work hesitate or refuse. It's amazing how someone that will gladly pay $650.00 for a bumper exhaust tip wil balk at paying the $85- $100.00 per hour labor rate a commercial shop has to charge to stay in business.
What percentage of "classic" cars that come to your shop for repairs are Cadillacs?
Greg Surfas
Not counting my 3? ;D In 25 years I can only recall 2. A 1941 coupe (project years ago) and more recently a 1970 de ville convertible (that had some abysmal repairs made) to straighten out a few wrinkles. Mostly mechanical stuff. Believe it or not the mechanic could not free up the distributor to time the engine, so he simply notched the cap and rotated it (not the distributor body, mind you, just the cap) and hoped it would stay, I presume long enough to collect on his bill.
Ironically, the owner told me he had paid more to the "bargain mechanic" than he paid me to correct the sins of the past mechanic and get the car running great.
Your point is so well made about what to some is justifiable costs in other areas. Plumber = $100+ and hour. Home electrician about the same. And while these folks are pros at what they do, consider the overhead expenses for them in comparison to a top notch restoration shop that must be ready to be an electrician (albeit 12V DC) a plumber (Cooling systems) and an A/C tech to name just a few hats one needs to wear-- and be a pro at the top of your game in all.
My shop is in need of a new roof after all these years-- where is that money going to come from? It has to come from profits made (and believe me that's a lot of profits though the years that are going away now!). My building insurance coverage is insane but necessary (remember the value of the cars we work on) and out of the blue my insurance premiums just increased 50%. Yes, 50%. For no good reason.
Folks need to remember these things when considering the pricing of work to be done on their classic. For us trying to give the best quality work to our customers it's not only about going home with enough to pay your bills and paying your professional help enough to pay theirs (as well as your "kick in" as their employer). There is a lot more to it than that.
Ken,
I so get it. If I drive over to a client's office shake their hand and immediately leave driving straight back to my office, it is a loss with a $300 invoice. Sometimes it takes an hour to do a five minute job on an older car. The key is communication. Anyone who I help with their car, if they start talking about keeping costs down, I say "you will probably be happier if someone else fixes your car". And that is so true.
The $300 (over a 2 or 3 hour period) has to pay rent, insurance, taxes, clerical, accounting, worker's comp, overhead, utilities, medical insurance, maintenance on the facility and etc. Your post reminds me of how anxious I am to get out of the rat race and retire, but got about another decade to go.
Retirement is good, but I don't use that word to describe my present status. I am "getting a life".
Bruce. >:D
Scott: I'm too can't wait to retire, and I'm even closer than you are! But I may not be retiring anytime soon.
It's just so hard anymore and I just can't seem to figure out why. I tend to think there is just so little "disposable income" these days as they used to call it in the '80's (when there was such a thing!!). Add to that costs just keep rising on everything regardless of a bad economy.
My bother in law works for Bombardier. He has seen some huge boat dealers simply close their doors--- and not because of retirement! His take is the same. A young guy with a family simply doesn't have an extra $300 for a boat payment each month anymore. He says that market has evaporated. :(
I suppose I'm fortunate to have two very good old car friendly shops near me. While I do a lot of my own work, and have for many years, there are plenty of jobs I'm either not equipped for, or don't have time for. In those cases, I figure an experienced professional who does this every day is more likely to have seen it before and fix it efficiently than I can. Both the shops I patronize are sole proprietors. The first, less than a mile from my house, works on most anything, but has a passion for older cars, and always has several in his shop. He's the only shop I've ever used where I am routinely surprised at how low the bill is, and sometimes if it only takes him a few minutes to find a loose wire or tweak an adjustment, he doesn't charge at all. Once I brought my '59 in thinking I had a gas tank leak. When i returned at the end of the day and asked what I owed, the answer was "$2; I had to go to the station next door to top off the tank." The other guy I consider the specialist. He's 20 minutes away, and only works on pre-'79 American cars. He's very familiar with 50's-60's Cadillacs, and can do pretty much anything, from rebuilding Hydramatics on down. I wouldn't say he's cheap, but I've never felt like he was gouging me. And his prices on parts are often better than I can find on my own, despite my having a pretty well developed network of parts sources.
David,
In my experience good Hydra-matic rebuilders are few and far between. This guy should be made known to everyone in your area and beyond.
David,
This post would never have started if we were so blessed. How old are these guys? The secret to old car repairs to me is experience, and more important, knowing when to read the shop manual instead of using experience. Always go on line and buy the shop manual for any car I work on. I have every shop manual plus many supplements (Eldorado Broughams, anti-skid 1970, EFI and etc) for all Caddys from 1959thru 1979 plus 1982 and some Olds, Buicks and etc.
Ken,
No entity will lend a person without a source of repayment money who will soon die, so since you cannot borrow to support retirement, my first payment from any source of income goes to that - it is top priority. It has not been easy for me for sure, but essential. Time consuming hobbies that cost such as gold, boating, and antique cars are on the wane. That is another reason it is more difficult to find a good shop and I do most all mechanical work myself. At least at the end of the day, with hobby cars you can drive your car and it is not too difficult to sell. Boating and gold are a total money pit.
Back to the subject, it is difficult to find a good shop that will work on older cars, and it is best if you can do as many yourself as possible.
Bust Out Another Thousand = BOAT.
;D
Scott:
One of these guys is mid fifties, the other is probably 60+-. I always have the shop manuals in the car. Both guys are happy to help keep costs down, including suggesting tests/fixes to try before coming in. They know I'm addicted and they'll have more chances to take my money.
Scot, I agree with you about shop manuals. I once went through a GM training course in which we were told to not try to memorize clearances, gaps, torque specs, repair sequences, etc. since they can change year to year in the same model car. I've always had the impression that many mechanics don't believe in that advice.
I'm not qualified to really do major work on my car, but I'm learning. Meanwhile, I did a lot of research and found out who the go to shops were for upholstery, scissor tops, engine, body, etc., and have used them. The guy I have been using mostly is an old car buff and has his original early 70s Buick muscle car that he's kept up. I bought the shop manual, the Fisher body guide, and Cadillac Tim's climate control guide and studied them. Between us, we figure out what needs to be done. We determine what parts need to be purchased, I find them for him and he installs them. He's come in on weekends when things were quiet to work on the car and has never charged me a penny for the time he's needed to learn something new from the manual. He is absolutely great. I consider us to be partners in this car. I've also gotten plenty of help from people here such as Greg and Scot and Tim and TJ and many others, just reading their posts.
Over time, I'll learn more and do more. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying a great car. My knowledge deficit is so great that it would be years before I could enjoy this car if I had to learn everything before doing it myself. I'm working on increasing my understanding but not everyone's brain is wired the same way. I"m good at history and languages but not at understanding mechanical things. It is hard for me to do what many here find common-place. Yet I too want to enjoy this hobby at whatever level I can.
I think with care, good people can be found and that the hobby need not be confined solely to people who work on their on cars. There's plenty of help out there. Just need to do the leg work and be willing to learn as much as we can. And ask for help when needed.
I think the reason as far as mechanical work is concerned is that most mechanics of today are "Parts Changers" plugging in their computer and changing the parts the computer tells them to change. Not really understanding the reasons cars actually work especially our old obsolete cars. I grew up poor in the fifties and had to fix my cars or ride the bus or ride my bike. Took auto shop and was fascinated by the 1936 Hudson cutaway motor and transmission with moving parts. Watching the valves open and the pistons moving and the cam and distributor turning brought the whole thing into focus. Much easier to figure out what is wrong when looking at the whole picture. Electronics and computer generated actions are a mystery to me but understanding the basics help to even understand those newer complexities.
I use specialists for alignments and on my modern cars which never seem to need anything along with Automatic transmissions.
Ken,
Most people complain about anything they have to pay for, such as but not limited to: construction (additions - $400/sq ft), appliances, kitchen or bath remodel, restaurants, lawyers, groceries and etc.
I agree 100%, it is very aggravating when I hear people complain about the cost of maintaining/restoring their hobby cars. Don't buy the car if you did not have a plan to maintain/repair it. I work on cars as a hobby after my day job as my means of unwinding and relaxing, and it earns a little extra money. When someone who wants me to work on their car starts trying to pin me down on lower pricing, I walk away - only happened once.
It is true: "The quality is long remembered after the price is forgotten". I sure don't keep of track of what I have invested in my cars - that would be dumb if I want to be happy.
Your situation is different I know. My work although it does bring in money, is entirely for the enjoyment of the hobby.
...and nothing but the best for you Scot. Good on you for keeping it "kinda fun".
I agree, I too don't keep track of what I spend on parts and stuff for my own cars. I just don't spend the rent money and other than that have fun is my motto.
It's a hobby, not an investment. If you get something resembling a fair price for your car when you've had all the fun you can have with it, then that's usually a lot better than most hobbies offer.
;) Regards, ken
Gary, if you can understand the old engines you can also understand the ‘puter cars. I got a copy of this book and it helped a lot. https://haynes.com/en-us/obd-ii-electronic-engine-management-systems-haynes-techbook
(https://haynes.com/en-us/obd-ii-electronic-engine-management-systems-haynes-techbook)Unfortunately, the computer code is not open to anybody, even the dealer mechanics. So sometimes it is hard to figure out what is going on.
I buy the shop manual for all the newer cars as well as the older cars. They run about $150 each set and come in 3 or 4 volumes.
Good point Glen. I hire a neighbor who works as a mechanic at the Toyota dealer who is 28 and helps me with computer stuff on cars after his shift is up. He gets paid such that of the $120/hr the dealer charges he is very happy with my $30/hr compensation. I see him infrequently, but that is my resource, he is honest, half my age, and staying in the area. He has gotten computer programs for me to work on my 2007 Chevy trucks, reading codes and etc.