Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Greg Powers on April 18, 2017, 09:29:57 PM

Title: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: Greg Powers on April 18, 2017, 09:29:57 PM
Before I start I know I'll probably step on a few toes out there but when will this RED madness end.  I have personally owned three Cadillac convertibles (Chesterfield Brown, Bahama Sand and Arctic Blue) and never have I even considered a repainted red Cadillac as an option. It's one thing if the car comes comes from the factory in a proper Cadillac red but this total lack of originality with "fire engine red" paint just astounds me. I think it all came to a boiling point for me when I recently read the ad for a 1969 DeVille convertible being offered by a large national concern. The ad for the car said that the car had been painted a flashy red, a big improvement to the original code 47 Wisteria Metallic, a dull purple-gray color. My heart just stopped. Some unconcerned soul just painted over one of the rarest of all  Cadillac colors for1969. I have been on a quest for many years to find a Wisteria DeVille convertible like the one my father wouldn't let me buy when I was in college. (That's a story for another day) Unfortunately I have had people tell me that they have repainted a number of Cadillac convertibles (often changing from more understated pastels or beige tones) to what they unashamedly called Resale Red.  I know, "It's their car and they can do what they like with it" but please before you check the red box at least look at the Cadillac color offerings and see if you might have a rare color before the paint hits the fender. Thanks for listening, I feel better now.- Greg     
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373 on April 18, 2017, 09:52:01 PM
Mine was painted resale red by the previous owner. Paperwork says Corvette Red.
I would prefer another color, but at least it helps me find it in a parking lot.
Jeff
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on April 18, 2017, 10:33:43 PM
I know what you mean.

I was trying to sell my Hot Rod back in the mid '70's, and I had painted it the original Cordoba Tan, and boy, was it a wolf in sheeps' clothing.

As soon as I painted it red, it sold in a week.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   The sale was to fund my next project.

PPS.   My next Red purchase was a '60 CDV, which had been repainted from White.   If it was White I still would have got it.
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: jagbuxx #12944 on April 18, 2017, 10:34:43 PM
I'm in agreement with Greg. I've always tried to have something different when it comes to colors. When I was looking for my '70 I was trying to find a Turquoise or any Firemist color when I landed on the San Mateo red I purchased. It was a 63k original that was sold in Hollywood. Plus red instead of white interior. So I caved in.
The resale red craze just follows that the majority of people are like sheep.
That's why when you go to a dealership these days all the cars are grey, silver, black or white.
Boring!
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: D.Smith on April 18, 2017, 10:45:36 PM
I agree with you.  I walked away from a gorgeous Red and white 1966 Deville convertible for sale by a collector car dealer.  My heart sank when I saw the body plate and that it was a beautiful Firemist gold and tan when new.    The dealer didn't understand why I was disappointed.  You came to see it because it was red so why not buy it?    I told him if it was a numbers matching red car I would have.   But a non numbers matching color change kills it for me.   I'd rather have seen it firemist gold. 
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: Scot Minesinger on April 19, 2017, 12:45:18 AM
Greg, my toes ache - kidding you are unlikely to offend a red car owner with your post.  I drive a true factory red on red convertible with white top.  The shade Cadillac picked out is perfect for the car.  I like it, but would not want another red car for sure.  Sure agree that when a Cadillac is repainted a non Cadillac red, that is not good, especially when it has an orange tone. 

Another interesting issue is that red cars of different shades (especially orange toned) look terrible parked next to each other and it hurts you at peer judged shows.  I always have to be careful to not let a red car be parked next to mine.  Park green cars together, or blue cars together and no issue.  My wife pointed this out to me, as I was wondering why does my car look not right next to that tomato colored modified Cadillac at a car show - she said don't park next to it again.

I think we were introduced a few years ago and your Dad would not let you buy a pink Cadillac - right?

Modifications never really bother me, but I have to think long and hard to change a car color.  I'm performing a major restoration on a 1970 Cadillac DVC coach built car now and it was triple blue leaving factory but was changed by former owner to a brown leather interior, complete interior color change, leaving the blue top and exterior.  The same color convertible top really does not make it pop.  On this car I am changing the color to sable black with the light tan leather interior - complete interior color change.  The top will be the light tan too.  I saw a 1969 Cadillac in this color combo and it looked amazing.

If just repainting a car, I would not change the color.  Plus unique greens and the like are major babe magnets.  Got tons of attention driving a 1976 Dunbarton green Cadillac once (thanks Jeff Montgomery).  After that I really appreciated the nice colors Cadillac offered.
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: raugusti on April 19, 2017, 03:37:33 AM
I agree, while I like my '58 Conv. in it's current resale red with red and white interior, I think it is unfortunate that a car with SO paint and trim has now lost the very thing that made it unique.  According to some of the documentation it used to be blue with a blue and white interior, and when I get around to sending for the build info maybe it will have an explanation of the SO info.

Scott
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: 30326 on April 19, 2017, 03:51:19 AM
My 64 is Aspen White. Its original and in very good condition. A good workout with some polish and it looks like new!

I completely agree with the above assessments. I will not buy a car that has been repainted in a different tone. Especially red, as that indicates the seller being a moron and only in for the money. I also dislikes black cars with black interior or white car with white interiors. Its just too boring. A car should have different color on the body compared to the interior.

What really baffles me nowadays are that the "modern" cars all look the same. Both in color and style. Can't any longer see the difference of a yamazuki or foryota or whatever they are called. And they are all silver!

The best color on a car is oxblood red, Cadillac has a similar color for the Escalade...
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: cadillac ken on April 19, 2017, 08:23:07 AM
It's the age of "flippers"

Those that actually care about the car, the history, and originality are all but gone.  Gentlemen's hobby?-- not so much anymore.
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: Tpicks55 on April 19, 2017, 11:53:33 AM
I'm restoring a 75 Eldo convertible and its red with white interior.  I wouldn't dream of changing colors even if it was white, blue or tan.  That's the way it came from the factory and should stay that way.  Just my opinion.
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: joeinbcs on April 19, 2017, 12:49:09 PM
Well said...I love most of the original colors, and, of course, they just look right.
Here's a Wisteria '69 convertible owned by Jim Caffrey, a CLC member.
It was his late mother's car, so I doubt he'll ever consider selling it, but its a beautiful thing to look at and ride in.
Has the Ostrich Quill leather in a kind of purple color...Stunning and rarely seen color. 
I can see why you wanted one!
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: J. Skelly on April 19, 2017, 01:02:52 PM
I worked at a Chevy dealer for a short time years ago.  They had a beautiful dark blue Corvette for sale on the used car lot.  It hadn't sold after a week or so.  The painter told me the used car manager was thinking about painting it black!   Sure enough, it was in the collision shop a few days later and the painter was scuffing up the blue paint.  It was then painted black, but was not of the quality of the original finish (which wasn't that great to begin with).  It sold within a few days.  I was disgusted.
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: m-mman on April 19, 2017, 02:15:57 PM
In the "Look at me!" world of car collectors nothing stands out like 'red'.

In this vein I am always interested in seeing overhead group photos of a car show. They are consistently awash in a sea of red. The cars that actually do stand out in the group shot are the non-red cars(!)

The original non-red colors appeal most to the connoisseurs and are typically seen as boring to the novices and the wanna bees. I have learned that at a car show those people who 'admire' the red cars are generally the least interesting to talk with and those who appreciate the obscure colors and combinations always seem to make the best conversations and have the greatest depth of car knowledge.

I am just beginning to learn pre-war cars and have discovered that 'red' in those years was limited to burgundy and maroon.
While black was certainly the most common pre-war color, back then a STAND OUT color were the lighter versions of gray and tan. (white didnt exist much back then and the light blues were almost unheard of)
Sadly today when you look at restored 30s-40s cars and you see nothing but 'resale maroon'  :(
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: Mike Josephic CLC #3877 on April 19, 2017, 04:15:14 PM
I'm another person who detests the "fad" of repainting cars red for flipping
purposes.

I judged Class 15 at the Grand Nationals for over 20 years and love Eldorados
of the era.  I really got tired of seeing red ones that were redone.  There were
many nice "Eldorado only" colors during that era which were lost to history due
to this.

My 1955 is Bahama Blue, repainted the original color, and I would not have it any
other way!

Mike
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: 35-709 on April 19, 2017, 04:19:25 PM
If a car is going to be flipped, paint it the color that will flip it fastest and easiest.  Flippers are the LAST ones to care about a car's past color, no matter what that color is.
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: 35-709 on April 19, 2017, 04:24:41 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
My '73 Caribou --- sold now.  Ist in class at the Boston GN
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: Greg Powers on April 19, 2017, 04:31:24 PM
Thanks for the picture of the 1969 Wisteria convertible Joe. I spent quite a long time viewing that car and talking to the owner at the Grand National. It was just beautiful with the dark mauve leather and white top. I was also impressed with the paperwork that he had that made the car even more desirable. - Greg
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: 76eldo on April 19, 2017, 07:30:34 PM
Greg,

Red is an attractive color if it's the proper Cadillac color.  I like black cars with red interiors and white with red interiors and red with white interiors.  That's not to say that all Cadillacs lend them selves to these colors.  I love Byzantine Gold on a 70 Deville and I also love the gold they had in 64.  However on a 60 Seville, not so much.  On a 70 Deville is seems like black is a bit much on that car as is white.  Just my opinion.

As far as the typical resale red buyer, the color is usually way too red or too bright for a Cadillac, but guys that will not know the difference between a MAACO Corvette or Mustang Red on a Cadillac are first time buyers looking for a cool old car to go out and get some ice cream on a summer night with the family.  And there's nothing wrong with that. These are the same guys that think a 66 DeVille should 2" whitewalls on it and that the indash hacked in CD player and speakers screwed into the door panels make guys like us cringe.

Luckily for us these cars were built in substantial numbers so it's not like there are only a few examples.

After I bought my 60 Seville project I bought a two loads of parts from two different guys that were hot rodding some pretty decent 60 Seville's.  Check out the pic of the full running chassis I bought in Ohio for spare parts.  Basically I got everything that wasn't a body part.  They were going to customize this think and put the body on a newly fabricated chassis.  The owner wanted to start off with a Seville because he liked the side trim and the rear grille.  It WAS a 28,000 mile original car.

It's probably finished by now and undoubtedly red.

Brian
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on April 20, 2017, 04:17:16 PM
Greg...the only thing worse than "Retail Red" is Pepto [A]bysmal Pink!

As such...

*No pristine originals were harmed... ;D

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2Fz0UAAOSw5UZY-Dex%2Fs-l1600.jpg&hash=a7680b4bd5b761c69535f01ed3d22d0c627a69fc)

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2Fx6YAAOSwBOtY-Dex%2Fs-l1600.jpg&hash=f93f71af19f657f50f9d7d03bbe37f69b9ac31d2)

Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: dochawk on April 20, 2017, 05:33:18 PM
My dream car, at least since high school, has always been a red Eldorado convertible with a white top.  By some time in college, I narrowed it down to a '71 (I now know that the '72 was mostly identical, and that the massive power drop was due to changing from gross to net HP, rather than part of the Great Emasculation [which I had simply assumed--that was the same model year Chevy pulled the 4 barrel from the small block 400]).

As I was flying to a conference at the end of my Ph.D., I saw an Impala or Caprice convertible in those colors.  I *almost* called my wife to have her grab my friend and buy it--but it was Iowa, so I figured that it would be rusted from the ground up.

A couple of weeks later, I was chatting with someone who by chance had known the owner.

It really had been owned by an old lady who kept in a garage and only drove to church on Sunday.  :o (hmm, we don't have a head-banging emoticon).

I figured that was my chance, and I blew it.

Roll the clock ahead a few years, and my wife's van got stolen.  It was old enough we'd only be getting about $8 for it, and we no longer had the 7k  mile trips a couple of times a year.  So I flipped through craigslist looking for a used one to get us through a few more years of kids in school.

1972 Cadillac Convertible, $2,000

I went and looked.  Rough, but complete.  Proper compression when I had it checked.

Even though it was white with beige top & brown interior, I took it.  It needed paint, interior, and a new top, but some quick checking found I could get passible versions for about $2k-$3k each. 

So I took it home fully intending to quickly have it turned white and red with the insurance money, and to become my wife's daily car (she sure couldn't get 4 kids to school in my Miata!).

And on the way home, a couple of blocks away one of my 10 year olds spotted the van.

*sigh*

Now I had a project car . . .

The white has grown on me over the years, but the brown and beige . . . . OK, they've grown on me, but they should still go back to the 70s.

So now I really don't know what color it will end up.

The path to a Class 1 car from this one would be to write a check for another car.  But I"m really not interested in owning a 1, or even a high 2.  I know full well that I'd drive it enough to leave that realm in short order.

So I have it to tinker.

White has grown on me, but I'm thinking more and more of an eldorado only color.  I can highjack my garage for some weeks, kick the other car to the shaded driveway, and build a simple paint enclosure.

And I expect that the dash (cracked) and much other interior trim (such as the panels next to the rear seat) will be made by hand by mee, or possibly 3d printed at a local craftsy cooperative.

But I have time to decide.

For now, I think I'll go out and see if I can finish the water pump . . .

(and to show that I've gone inn to far on this stuff . . . it was the "correct tires" note on the image that caused me to click on Soct's for a closer look . . .)
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: john henderson on April 30, 2017, 06:21:26 AM
I agree that so many cars all look the same,sharing style and color,but have you guys noticed some of the beautiful pastel-like non metallic colors on some Fiat,VW's,and Mini's?Colors right out of the fifties,they're gorgeous.
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: 76 cadillac bob on May 01, 2017, 12:12:01 PM
Color is so important, even if not the most desireable by todays standards, originality is what makes these cars so worth while. Mine was a beige with beige interior, someone gave it a  RED paint job doing a so so job, not as I would have liked but lots of polishes and acrylic sealers did it good. The color is TORCH RED for Corvettes and what a show stopper. People are commenting on the paint job but it is a funny almost chinese Red not deep and certainly not subtle. Still I love driving it and am now getting the bugs almost worked out it is even more fun. Saw a brown/beige Hudson over the weekend, and it was original any other color would have looked funny.
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: dochawk on May 01, 2017, 01:27:36 PM
My top is so far beyond recovery as to be irrelevant . . . which frees me up some.

Keeping that beige top, would sharply limit possible colors--white, gold, brown, and ???

I'm fairly certain that I'll go for a white top, and am waffling on keeping the body white, or going to red (not much will survive of its brown interior, either, even if I keep the color . . .)
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: D.Smith on May 01, 2017, 02:52:30 PM
What's wrong with keeping a car the original colors it was built with?   

Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: 35-709 on May 01, 2017, 07:15:43 PM
Beige tops look sharp with a nice dark red.
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on May 01, 2017, 07:48:17 PM
I have a beige top on my '72, but the car is Firemist Green.   Looks really smart.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: Shorty64cad on May 02, 2017, 01:31:44 AM
How could anyone think Wisteria was dull!  I LOVE my Wisteria Eldo!
Title: Re: RESALE RED - Will the Madness Never End
Post by: Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373 on May 02, 2017, 08:03:22 AM
Quote from: Shorty64cad on May 02, 2017, 01:31:44 AM
How could anyone think Wisteria was dull!  I LOVE my Wisteria Eldo!

I have to say +1 on that. Yes.
That is more of a show stopper than the bright Corvette Red some yahoo painted mine.
Beautiful.
Jeff