Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => Technical / Authenticity => Topic started by: INTMD8 on December 15, 2017, 05:42:56 PM

Title: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: INTMD8 on December 15, 2017, 05:42:56 PM
I've put off this job for years but finally getting around to it. 

Pulled everything apart (easier than I thought) and the core itself is leaking.

Does anyone re-core/repair these or am I better off buying new?

Assuming I should replace the control valve while I am in there as well.

Also need the inner/outer firewall gaskets and rubber boot between blower housing and firewall box.

Recommended source for these items? It's all on ebay of course but want to make sure I'm not overlooking a better option.

Thanks!

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg923%2F5643%2FP9vksV.jpg&hash=85172f81dc3e9ae5c8f54154f89d2ac1ab492d54)
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: 76eldo on December 15, 2017, 06:21:12 PM
Wow that's one nasty looking core.
Probably can get one new.
I had a valve rebuilt but it took months so I'm not recommending that person.
Do the valve while it's all apart.
I need to do the one on my 60 too. It leaked and I bypassed it.
Need to do one on my 70 also.

Brian
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: Bobby B on December 15, 2017, 08:36:40 PM
Quote from: INTMD8 on December 15, 2017, 05:42:56 PM

Does anyone re-core/repair these or am I better off buying new?
Thanks!
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg923%2F5643%2FP9vksV.jpg&hash=85172f81dc3e9ae5c8f54154f89d2ac1ab492d54)

I wouldn't even think of repairing that core if a new one was available. I think your radiator shop would be telling you the same thing.
                                                                                             Bobby
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: 59-in-pieces on December 16, 2017, 12:32:17 PM
Jim,
I assume this is the first time the core has been out since you owned it.
However, do you know if it had been repaired before.
The reason I ask is that based on my experience with 59's, the sensor coil is wound way too tight.
What I have observed is the the coils are at least 1/2" apart from each other - sometimes further, but never that tight.
Better sampling that way - though I can't be sure, for sure.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: 59-in-pieces on December 16, 2017, 12:40:14 PM
Jim,
A repro boot - 4 sale section.
Check it out.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: INTMD8 on December 16, 2017, 05:00:45 PM
Doesn't seem like it's ever been apart but it's so old it's hard to say.

Thanks for the info guys :)
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: Daddio on December 17, 2017, 09:03:21 AM
I had my heater recored by a local rad shop a year or so ago. They pressure tested it and the control valve was fine so I reused it.  However, your core is in much worse shape than mine and may not be rebuildable.
For the gasket, I used adhesive backed home door/window weatherstripping. It was 1" x 1/2", black in colour and I trimmed it to fit. Be sure to reuse the standoffs to prevent crushing it when reinstalling.
I made my own boot (15 years ago) out of rubber gasket material using the original as a pattern. It looks better than the hard plastic repops, but the moulded one (now available here) looks very nice.
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: David Greenburg on December 17, 2017, 05:48:41 PM
I believe Old Air Products has the gaskets.
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: Jeff Wilk on December 17, 2017, 07:25:02 PM
These guys are awesome. They did my 1959 and others as well which looked the same.

http://www.caparadiator.net/

Jeff


Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: Cadillac Jack 82 on December 18, 2017, 09:31:55 AM

I second Jeff's comment.  Cap-A-Radiator are a great group of guys.  They built a brand new radiator for my 1954 Buick when I still had it and it was a work of art.  I believe they charge 200 for a heater core rebuild.
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: INTMD8 on December 18, 2017, 10:28:01 AM
Thanks guys but I already sent the valve for a rebuild to Joe Hudacek. He is supplying me with a heater core as well.
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: Bobby B on December 20, 2017, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: INTMD8 on December 18, 2017, 10:28:01 AM
Thanks guys but I already sent the valve for a rebuild to Joe Hudacek. He is supplying me with a heater core as well.

He did an excellent job on the '47. Joe is Good People   ;).......
                                                               Bobby.
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: INTMD8 on December 27, 2017, 04:49:01 PM
Good to hear^  :)

A few more questions if you guys don't mind.

When I move the lever over to defrost the flapper door inside the case only opens about halfway to the defrost hose outlets.

Normal or should I adjust the external linkage to open it more?

Also, what is the air door above the heater core for? Seems to cycle open and close through the range of defrost lever operation but I can't really tell what it's supposed to do.

Thanks :)

This is how far the flap for defrost opens, mid position-

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3157/7AsAaS.jpg)

And this is the air door above the heater core I do not know the function of-

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/7597/Cn62fT.jpg)
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: Scott Halver on December 28, 2017, 11:41:45 AM
Jim,
I went through my 1960 heater core/box/duct work/vacuum pods and lines about 2 years ago ......  had the whole dash out.   If I remember right, the defrost door should fully close so that 98% of the air is being blown up on the windshield.   I would check first to see if the door has that much travel, then when re-installing the box and Bowden cables (should be top leaver, above heater leaver) I would adjust the defrost cable so that it can fully open and close the door ......   working off memory.   I think the rest of the doors work off vacuum from the pods.   For what it's worth, I used all of my old Bowden cables and then a year later bought new replacement cables from Caddy Daddy-   replaced the ac Bowden cable because it was just too hard to move.  I think the ac cable got pinched somewhere and was really hard to move, afraid I was going to break the ac controls in the car trying to move the Bowden cables.   

Note:  The box leavers and tabs are easy to bend.   I had to play with the doors for awhile to figure out what was keeping one of the doors from fully closing.   Once I figured it out and slightly re-bent the actuating leaver, it worked like a charm.   We had the car in St Paul last June and it was 49 degrees and raining.   Being from Arizona I had not tried the defrost ..........   was praying it would work and it did !!    I obtained a re-built heater core and valve from Joe H and it has worked perfectly.

SHalver CLC #24920
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: 59-in-pieces on December 28, 2017, 12:43:34 PM
Jim,
This diagram may help.

Another couple of thoughts.
The plastic vacuum valves (gray) at the back of the control modules, should be "slightly" = tiny amount of the lightest weight oil - clock oil, to maintain the vacuum seal and make their operation smoother.
The jams where the doors close against, have felt gaskets.
They should be replaced (a task) as they mat down and harden up over time & use, which allows air to pass even if the doors are closed = draft in the cabin.
Belt and suspenders, perhaps.
Have fun,
Steve B.

P.S.
Sorry for the quality of the diagram, it took 5 attempts to post, had to dumb the pic down - original too sharp a pic to post
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: INTMD8 on December 28, 2017, 07:23:31 PM
Thanks guys! The flap that directs air to the defrost outlets has enough travel to go to the floor of the box (which would divert almost all air to defrost), just doesn't get that far.

I can adjust the linkage so this happens no problem, just doesn't appear to have ever been adjusted so I wasn't sure if it was supposed to go that far.

The bowden cables for the box all move freely. Only one stuck is for the passenger kick panel vent.

Thanks for the photo, I think I have the same in the workshop manual but was having a hard time with it as mine is a non-ac car.

Still, the valve -above- the core is a mystery to me. Appears to just be a dead end dead space that is blocked off by the gasket when bolted up to the firewall. 

Maybe I'll take a video of it tomorrow, how it moves with the external linkages.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: INTMD8 on December 30, 2017, 06:07:22 PM
Remembering that the inside box gets installed with spacers as well as a gasket, best I can tell the small air door above the core is supposed to (at times) direct outside air to the defrost outlets. Has a little scoop at the top to direct air from the outside heater box.

Why? I don't know, can't come up with any other explanation.

Still don't even have a real understanding of how all this works so I'm just setting the cables to their original points.

Little cable connecting the external box linkage to one part of the heater control valve, another cable to the actual valve part, coil that goes in front of the box and a vacuum actuated air door to let air in.

Seems much more complicated than even many 70's cars I have worked on.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/3937/aJ6oHR.jpg)

Title: Re: 1959 Cadillac heater core and valve
Post by: INTMD8 on January 03, 2018, 08:29:58 PM
Happy to report that it's all back together and everything works perfectly.

Thanks again for the help guys.