Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on August 26, 2018, 08:41:34 PM

Title: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on August 26, 2018, 08:41:34 PM
https://www.proxibid.com/Collector-Cars/Classic-Vintage-Cars/RARE-1959-Cadillac-Eldorado-Biarritz-Convertible/lotInformation/43235663&scrollLocationOnCatalog=580

https://www.proxibid.com/Collector-Cars/Classic-Vintage-Cars/RARE-1959-Cadillac-Eldorado-Biarritz-Convertible/lotInformation/43235679&scrollLocationOnCatalog=716

I was thinking 50K & 25K....I was way off.......

Mike
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on August 26, 2018, 08:52:12 PM
And then there is the buyers premium to add as well.

Definitely out of my league.

But then, they are getting scarce.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on August 26, 2018, 09:47:55 PM
2 - 1958 Eldorado Broughams at Mecum Monteray, 1 sold for 110K, the other BGO at 115K.

\m/
Laurie
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: 59-in-pieces on August 26, 2018, 10:31:19 PM
OH, YE OF LITTLE FAITH.
Squirrely auction (or should I say raccoony) - sort of a no peek behind the OZ curtain - questionable at best.
However, I love the smell of tetanus in the morning, but I have never seen a hood eaten through like that on any car - junk yard, chicken coop, or barn - yikes.
I've bought worse.
As for the Broughams (almost literally hand made), that is one of life's little mysteries, how a car that new sold for more than a Rolls, could be worth so little these days.

Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Mike Josephic CLC #3877 on August 26, 2018, 11:16:25 PM
Those are rather "crazy" prices for the condition
of those rusty hulks.

If you take the purchase prices, add $2-300k for a
full concourse restoration it makes no sense since
show quality examples can be had for $200--$250k

A 2018 Barret-Jackson sale as an example:
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1959-CADILLAC-ELDORADO-CONVERTIBLE-217880


Mike
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on August 26, 2018, 11:23:51 PM
The first thing I would do is to rip those butt ugly wide whitewall tires off the car!! Why would someone think they look correct???
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: cadillacmike68 on August 27, 2018, 01:57:57 AM
Not for me. I'd never get it finished.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on August 27, 2018, 07:15:44 AM
I think the buyers premium was 10%......

This was an online auction only....there were no inspections of cars before bidding.....I guess the family didn't want a circus happening on the property.....

I know the restoration process is fun but with completed examples selling for $200K....you have to wonder about the wisdom of these purchases...

Mike

Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Scot Minesinger on August 27, 2018, 08:54:46 AM
Yes, this is of course too high of a price from an economic perspective of attaining a show winner they are actually worth zero.  Nice examples of #1 1959 EBZ may go for 250k, and you could not restore these cars to a #1 condition for 250k, so if the goal is a #1 car, the owner would pay the seller to take them if only economics are figured.

I think these were purchased for another purpose.  Or they could have been purchased where the owner will restore them himself to save labor, then it could make economic sense.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on August 27, 2018, 08:56:18 AM
But honey, it's the one I've always wanted...
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on August 27, 2018, 09:00:06 AM
For some, in a league in a far far away galaxy with deeper pockets than I, the figures proffered here are a mere drop in the bucket.  To those who have the means and money is no object, why not?  These select few really don't care about the cost and the return afterward because, to them, it's just money.  Hard for someone like me to comprehend, but, then again, who am I to judge?
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on August 27, 2018, 09:07:36 AM
Earlier this year a 3x black '59 EBZ sold on eBay in worse condition than the blue car mid-$70K.   

Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: INTMD8 on August 27, 2018, 12:18:00 PM
I agree with wow.   Continually surprised with what these bring in that condition.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: jaxops on August 27, 2018, 02:36:54 PM
What a dog! Ruff ruff (rough!).   I wouldn't pay that much for that much work.  It's actually sitting on the ground so there may be zero floors.  Quite a roll of the dice.  Not a bad looker though, just a LOT of work.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: 59-in-pieces on August 27, 2018, 03:46:25 PM
Bob,
Good eyes, if you meant the black B.J. car - should be only 2 1/4" - and it's no Concourse car (very respectable restoration though).

Easy to throw $200 or $300K around if you can't or won't do the work yourself, and based upon that, the conclusions are correct as to a finished value or worthiness.

In reality, the majority of such figures is based on labor, and not parts.
Rebuild the engine, the trans, upholstery, wiring, top, and misc. mechanicals - it might as well be an Olds or Buick etc - the cost is pretty much a given.
However, if all the unique Eldo trim is there, the rest is the love of working with your hands and the pride of a job well done.
Even Geppetto made a real boy from a chunk of wood with his own hands and some tools  - and yes a little Blue Fairy Dust - can't make it sound too easy or everyone would do it.

Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: novetti on August 27, 2018, 09:57:09 PM
Looks like expensive starting projects, however coming from the complete utter madness currently happening with VW splitscreen buses, (some north of three figures), and not counting 356 Porsches these Ritzes look like a bargain.

Look at this shait
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2092867

I sold all my aircooled VW's and only play with Cad's and Lincoln's now.
As I do all my work actually I saved money trading...

I think no car you will make make money (or brake even) if you have to pay someone to fix it for you. The exeption would be to get plating work for obvious reasons...

I do it for the fun, not for the money.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Bobby B on August 27, 2018, 10:51:21 PM
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on August 27, 2018, 09:00:06 AM
  To those who have the means and money is no object, why not?  These select few really don't care about the cost and the return afterward because, to them, it's just money. 

Dan,
Most of those people don't work on their own vehicles, so in that regard, money really is no object if you have it to burn. I know LOTS of people in that situation. But for some hard working people like You, I, and the majority of the people on this Forum, a vehicle in that condition, selling for those numbers, just makes ZERO cents.....
             Bobby
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Bobby B on August 27, 2018, 10:57:22 PM
Quote from: novetti on August 27, 2018, 09:57:09 PM
I think no car you will make make money (or brake even) if you have to pay someone to fix it for you.
I do it for the fun, not for the money.

Even if you do All (or most of the work yourself), good luck breaking even on anything in today's market.
I think most of us also share your Views regarding "Doing it for the Love of it".......
                                                           Bobby
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on August 27, 2018, 11:01:00 PM
Or, they want to own it, just to say that they have it, with no plans to do anything to it.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Bobby B on August 27, 2018, 11:09:03 PM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on August 27, 2018, 11:01:00 PM
Or, they want to own it, just to say that they have it, with no plans to do anything to it.

Another good point....Over a Glass of Wine in their Climate controlled 10,000 sq.ft. garage  ::).........
                                                                            Bobby
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: STS05lg on August 28, 2018, 09:31:00 PM
Here is one Vince just posted that needs a new home and I don't think you would have to do a lot.

Well other then write a check, a really BIG check..  :o :o :o :o :o

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=151578.0

But just think of all the time you would save in not having to do a lot of repairs, that is the up side.

Happy Motoring,

Lynn
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on August 28, 2018, 09:51:33 PM
One would think for the price being asked, the seller would have included a new roof and the cost of replacement. ;)

The engine bay seems to be pretty ordinary for only having travelled under 30,000 miles.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: STS05lg on August 28, 2018, 10:11:02 PM
Bruce, its a 60 year old engine compartment, picky picky picky  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Oh, and if one has 195 large to drop on that car, I don't think the yellowed 60 year old convertible top will be a deal breaker...  ::) ::) ::) ::)

Oh if I only did have 195 large. 

It is all about, "they are only original once."

:) :) :) :)

Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Mike Josephic CLC #3877 on August 28, 2018, 10:13:18 PM
Agree with Bruce on this one.  To ask about $200k
and have a convertible top in that shape?  That's
some major cojones.  The engine compartment
leaves a lot to be desired and raises questions.

I don't place any extra value on a vehicle just because
somebody claims is "all original".  Yes, that's nice, but
that car is going to need a thorough going over to
get it up to speed.  Mechanicals that sat for many
years with a 1959 birthday will need attention. 
Cosmetics will as well. 

He brags about going to ACCA meets -- but doesn't
mention winning anything.

Before you know it, you've just spent another $100k
and it's not even an Eldorado!

Just my opinion..........

Mike

Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Bobby B on August 28, 2018, 11:52:21 PM
Quote from: Mike Josephic  CLC #3877 on August 28, 2018, 10:13:18 PM
I don't place any extra value on a vehicle just because
somebody claims is "all original".  Yes, that's nice, but
that car is going to need a thorough going over to
get it up to speed.

I will agree that the car will need a good going over to be roadworthy, so throw your "originality factor" out the window. I will admit that looking at a time capsule is really cool and it's really an awesome reference point for the people restoring these cars. I would think that someone spending that kind of money on it is going to leave it just the way it is, and possibly not even drive it. Make no sense to me, but knock yourself out if you have that kind of coin to sit on. For that money, I wanna drive something and enjoy it.....
                                                   Bobby
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: novetti on August 29, 2018, 02:14:47 AM
The paint looks way to shiny without any blemishes for me. Must be a repaint.

Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: 59-in-pieces on August 29, 2018, 01:04:03 PM
OK, I'm going to pile-on too.

Although, I'm also the first guy to defend a 59, BUT not this car - at that price, not even close.

The most jump off the page item: the car may have been Semenole Red in the beginning (based on the Data Tag), but the Semenole Red on this car is faded out (or a re-spray as suggested), and matching the real color (Code #50) is a bear-cat, trust me on this.

The original posting of this car did say it won a AACA Historic Preservation Award - but I'm not familiar with what the criteria are to judge this car a winner - maybe it's an easy class ????? - and I don't feel it translates or contributes that much into the asking price.

Have fun - and save your money for the next one.
Steve B.



Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: STS05lg on August 29, 2018, 02:17:53 PM
Steve, I am not knowledgeable at all about 59's other then their prices have gone through the roof. But I do know Vince and he would not write anything that is misleading or false. I just put the post up to compare this one to those rusted out parts cars that were going for a small fortune. Just to get the conversation going.
To answer you question about the AACA, here is the best way to picture their judging standards. Think of a room full of Bill Anderson's and you would get a pretty good idea of their standards. I have seen them knock off point because an electric connection under the hood was white instead of bone colored...  :o  :o
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on August 29, 2018, 02:47:01 PM
In all my years of following Cadillacs and the old car hobby I've only seen a handful of original '59 convertibles this well preserved, and none were in colors as desirable.

Considering what restored '59 Series 62 convertibles sell for, I don't think the asking price is at all unreasonable.

I can see no reason to question the paint's originality based on pictures. A friend had an all original 1960 Buick convertible whose paint looked just as good. The color was near identical to Seminole Red. 

That top isn't going to stop anybody who appreciates what that car is.  Personally I wouldn't touch it.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: gkhashem on August 29, 2018, 03:10:51 PM
About the Series 62 red convertible.

Who said it was not road worthy? Did I miss it in the description. They drove it a few times each year.

Also that engine compartment looks the part for a 59 year old or maybe 60 year old car. Get under there and clean it up a bit and marvel at something in car terms that money can't buy. (of course we are talking about money) But this is not just another restored car and one that may be restored incorrectly. How many convertibles are left like this?

Everyone is used to looking at so called originals that have been painted. I wold not turn up my nose at the engine compartment as long as it purrs like a kitten. Imagine how nice the car rides, how tight the steering may be. Yes I know it may rattle some since it is a convertible but maybe not. Sorry but the geometry of the car has not been messed up by a "ground up", "frame off" restoration. If I had money to burn I would rather have this car than a restored show perfect one, any day any time. Just my opinion but there are many collectors out there like me.

Now you may argue about the price but try finding a convertible in this condition that appears original. Its seems the original cars and not show car perfect cars are very hot now.

If this was an Eldorado Biarritz they would want $300K plus and guess what I bet they might get it.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Vince Taliano #13852 on August 29, 2018, 04:39:22 PM
Quote from: Mike Josephic  CLC #3877 on August 28, 2018, 10:13:18 PM
Agree with Bruce on this one.  To ask about $200k
and have a convertible top in that shape?  That's
some major cojones.  The engine compartment
leaves a lot to be desired and raises questions.

I don't place any extra value on a vehicle just because
somebody claims is "all original".  Yes, that's nice, but
that car is going to need a thorough going over to
get it up to speed.  Mechanicals that sat for many
years with a 1959 birthday will need attention. 
Cosmetics will as well. 

He brags about going to ACCA meets -- but doesn't
mention winning anything.


Before you know it, you've just spent another $100k
and it's not even an Eldorado!

Just my opinion..........

Mike

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.invisioncic.com%2Fr277599%2Fmonthly_2018_08%2F1965388010_AACAWinner.jpg.858f0fb0e201aba25682e6a632dd4386.jpg&hash=33e510ecf53d5473cf99347a26a26bbb67eb659d)
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Chuck Swanson on August 29, 2018, 06:45:52 PM
Quote from: STS05lg on August 29, 2018, 02:17:53 PM
To answer you question about the AACA, here is the best way to picture their judging standards. Think of a room full of Bill Anderson's and you would get a pretty good idea of their standards. I have seen them knock off point because an electric connection under the hood was white instead of bone colored...  :o  :o

Actually doesn't answer the question at all about AACA HPOF judging in this thread. "The Historical Preservation of Original Features program encourages owners of vehicles 25 years old or older, to maintain significant original features in this original condition, and to show them at National Meets.  These vehicles will not be point judged."

Chuck
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: STS05lg on August 29, 2018, 07:03:08 PM
Chuck, I was just making a little attempt at humor in that the AACA has pretty tough standards. Gee people always take things literally. And i did see three AACA judges spend 20 minutes fighting over if the electrics connector should white or bone, bone won. So you will know, they have not started cloning people yet so please don't thing there is more then one Bill.  ;D  ;D Best Lynn don't take everything so serious...
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: 6262 on August 30, 2018, 12:46:12 AM
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on August 29, 2018, 02:47:01 PM
I can see no reason to question the paint's originality based on pictures. A friend had an all original 1960 Buick convertible whose paint looked just as good. The color was near identical to Seminole Red. 

'60 Buick Tampico Red is actually the same color.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on August 30, 2018, 03:34:23 AM
I'd like to go back to that original auction if I can.

Here is the list of sales in order from high to low....as to final price.

https://www.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=147926&ipp=100&sort=5&lr=1535628820160

The 59 Seville for $16,500 is big money for the condition.......have you ever seen a hood rust like that?

Mike
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Bobby B on August 30, 2018, 06:58:58 PM
Quote from: Mike Baillargeon  #15848 on August 30, 2018, 03:34:23 AM
The 59 Seville for $16,500 is big money for the condition.......have you ever seen a hood rust like that?

Actually......NO! What parts are useable on that car, and who in their right mind would pay that kind of money for that? We need names now  >:D.........
                                                                                              Bobby
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Scot Minesinger on August 30, 2018, 07:46:29 PM
Vince listed the car for an owner with lesser computer skills and had no control over the price.  If anyone is serious, they should look at the car and drive it, then make judgements.  We have read many times how difficult it is to make an accurate judgement over the internet.

The original post was on these junk yard 59 EBZ and the high prices, which I agree they are not economically feasible.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on August 30, 2018, 08:01:02 PM
Quote from: Bobby B on August 30, 2018, 06:58:58 PM
Actually......NO! What parts are useable on that car, and who in their right mind would pay that kind of money for that? We need names now  >:D.........
                                                                                              Bobby

LOL!!

Mike
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: 59-in-pieces on August 30, 2018, 08:18:16 PM
Ok.
Who among you - 59 or 60 guys - believe that the $850 for that dash and Electronic-eye (tube) is real.
NO, I think that I must have passed over into the Twilight Zone.
Many of those auction prices stretch credibility - and that ain't sour grapes.
Unless, the buyers have extremely advantageous currency exchange rates
Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Mike Josephic CLC #3877 on August 30, 2018, 10:46:59 PM
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on August 30, 2018, 07:46:29 PM
Vince listed the car for an owner with lesser computer skills and had no control over the price.  If anyone is serious, they should look at the car and drive it, then make judgements.  We have read many times how difficult it is to make an accurate judgement over the internet.

The original post was on these junk yard 59 EBZ and the high prices, which I agree they are not economically feasible.

I fully realize that Vince was just listing the car as he's done many others.
My commments as to pricing and other details were directed at the seller,
not at all toward Vince.  Obviously, the seller sets the price.

By the way Vince, if I offended you with my remarks that was certainly not
my intent.  The discussion was about the car and the seller.  My apologies.

Mike



Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Vince Taliano #13852 on August 31, 2018, 08:13:47 AM
No offense taken, Mike.  Providing clarification on the AACA award was necessary and should have be done with the original posting. It was an oversight on my part.     

Vince
Title: Re: WOW! 1959 Eldorado projects sold for what!??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 01, 2018, 11:43:16 AM
Anyone interested in this or any car is going to focused on one thing only: What the car is. A trunk full of awards or lack thereof has little bearing on what a given car is worth.