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Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cadman-iac on March 30, 2020, 10:29:20 AM

Title: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on March 30, 2020, 10:29:20 AM
 There have been a couple of threads recently about engine paint and it got me thinking about it.
Years ago I know that you could get a rattle can of Cadillac blue engine paint from just about any parts store.  I've looked for it recently and haven't been able to find any.  The closest thing to it is  (God forgive me) a Ford blue.
Where do you guys get it from, and is it the dark blue that was used in the 50's, 60's, and 70's?
I know that Cadillac switched to the corporate blue, (light blue) used by Chevrolet in 77 I think it was. I'd rather not use that if I could get the correct one.
I know that there is, or at least was, a Cadillac dark blue available from POR-15, but I don't know how good that stuff is. I just happened to find a small can of it a few years back, but I'm leery of using it. It's a big task to remove it if it doesn't work or look right, or if it won't stick to the engine correctly.
So does anyone have any suggestions on a source for this paint? And which brand might be better than the others?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Rick
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: brian faull clc#25881 on March 30, 2020, 10:35:34 AM
 I like Bill Hirsch paint the best.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on March 30, 2020, 10:37:51 AM
Bill Hirsch is still the go-to for paint.

You can also have it mixed at either a BASF or DuPont autobody supply house.

BASF (formerly RM - who was the supplier of the original Cadillac blue to GM) formula # 243212
Dupont SpectraMaster colour number BS454 is also bloody close to original.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on March 30, 2020, 10:38:48 AM
Quote from: brian faull clc#25881 on March 30, 2020, 10:35:34 AM
I like Bill Hirsch paint the best.
I've never heard of that before. Is that a spray paint? And from where do you get it?
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on March 30, 2020, 10:43:26 AM
Thanks Dan,
I think we were posting at the same time.
So you have to spray this on with a regular automotive paint gun then?
I have those, so no problem if that's the case. Can they also put it into a spray can,(rattle can)?
I have a paint shop I have dealt with in the past.
What sort of prep work is involved, and would it be better to paint it before or after assembly?
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Bill Balkie 24172 on March 30, 2020, 10:58:04 AM
Hello ,
   I purchased  this on Amazon and the spray on Ebay . it looks perfect to me . Just like the original . 28 Dallors free shipping

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V987G7W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

dillac-Dark-Blue-Engine-Enamel-12-oz-Aerosol-Spray-Paint/143111101055?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBID

    Bill
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on March 30, 2020, 11:09:34 AM
This is the authentic Cadillac Blue engine paint, currently in stock.

https://www.hirschauto.com/AEROSOL-ENGINE-ENAMEL/productinfo/EEA-SPRAY/CAD%20DK%20BLU/

Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on March 30, 2020, 11:12:33 AM
They can put it into a spray bomb, but I found the colour was not as accurate, and the paint wasn't as durable when done that way as they have to use a straight enamel to do it.  Results were better colour wise in Limco 1K acrylic enamel through a gun.  You could go whole hog and have it mixed in base/clear, although I haven't gone that route yet.

Instead of breaking out the paint gun, you could run it through a Preval sprayer.  They're cheap and disposable, available at Home Depot.  It's basically an aerosol attached to a glass jar filled with the 1K.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Preval-9-oz-Complete-Spray-Gun-267/202533738

I've used the Hirsch and it looks the part, and holds up well also. 

It's all about preference.  Shipping paint into Canada is a pain in the cornhole, so I go with what I can do locally.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: 35-709 on March 30, 2020, 11:15:33 AM
Cadillac Engine Blue remained the same from the first year 1953 until Cadillac went with the Corporate Blue in '77 or so.  It is no longer available at your local parts store and hasn't been for a long time.  Bill Hirsch is the usual go-to place for it in quarts or rattle cans as Laurie noted.  The brush-on in quarts flows out very nicely or spray it as Dan suggested.
It has been said that Rustoleum Royal Blue mixed with Rustoleum Black can be mixed to come very close to the Cadillac Engine Blue but you don't get the high temp. qualities.
Please don't paint it corporate blue --- wayyy ugly on a pre-'77 engine, in my opinion.  Ford Dark Blue is kind of close but no cigar, it could be used I suppose.

   
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Lexi on March 30, 2020, 11:16:20 AM
That looks like it Laurie, \mm/. Love the generic no frills labeling. Rick, when I bought Hirsch Cadillac (blue) paint last year it was available in both brush on and spray can formats. I think it is good paint and close to original color, but see my post today, in the topic thread 1956 intake manifold paint. Clay/Lexi

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=159483.msg458809#new

P.S. Got your emails and will respond probably today.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: jdemerson on March 30, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: Cape Cod Fleetwood on March 30, 2020, 11:09:34 AM
This is the authentic Cadillac Blue engine paint, currently in stock.

https://www.hirschauto.com/AEROSOL-ENGINE-ENAMEL/productinfo/EEA-SPRAY/CAD%20DK%20BLU/

I've used this and am quite happy with it. Purchased within the past year.

John Emerson
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on March 30, 2020, 11:49:30 AM
Dan, Brian,  Laurie, and Clay,
Thank you all very much for the great information.  It looks like the Bill Hirsch paint would be the easiest way to do it, and the mixed paint might be better suited, I'm not sure honestly. I have plenty of time to make up my mind right now.  The engine is apart for inspection, since I had assembled it originally over 30 years ago but never used it. I'm glad I did tear it down as there was some issues with the lubricant used on the cam drying out, as well as for some bugs that managed to get inside it despite my best efforts to keep it sealed.
I also have a spot of rust in a couple of cylinder walls that I need to have looked at.  I'm not sure if it's going to be a problem or not yet.
When I initially built it, I had intended to use it before too long, but life got in the way of my plans, and 1 year turned into 2, into 10 and so on.
I'm embarrassed to say that the color I had originally painted it was a Caterpillar yellow, as the intended recipient of the engine was going to be my '66 Chevy truck. It was going to be my  "Caderpillar", and I wanted it to stick out like a sore thumb. It did, but the paint didn't fair well in storage, and that bright yellow Caterpillar color isn't available now either. Just as well,  it wouldn't look good in a Cadillac anyway.
Many thanks to you all for the great information. At least now I know I m not stuck with Ford blue as my only option. Before I thought of asking about it here, I had bought a couple of cans of the Ford blue just to see how it looked, and I'm not impressed. It's a dull finish at best,  even though it's the Duplicolor engine enamel.

Rick
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on March 30, 2020, 11:55:16 AM
Big advantage to having time.  It lets you apply the paint and let it cure between coats and finally as the manufacturer suggests.  This adds exponentially to the serviceability and color retention.
Greg Surfas
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on March 30, 2020, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid"  Greg Surfas 15364 on March 30, 2020, 11:55:16 AM
Big advantage to having time.  It lets you apply the paint and let it cure between coats and finally as the manufacturer suggests.  This adds exponentially to the serviceability and color retention.
Greg Surfas

Yes, I noticed that.  The yellow paint has had 30 years to cure, and it's a pain in the butt to remove now. The best solvents even take forever to cut it. If I could I would put it in the blast cabinet and take it off that way. Probably not such a good idea however.
Thanks Greg,
Rick
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: savemy67 on March 30, 2020, 12:16:52 PM
Hello Rick,

You may want to think about how many cans of the Hirsch paint you will need.  The shipping for one spray can can be as expensive as the paint.  You may need more than one spray can for one engine, so consider getting two spray cans in order to spread the shipping costs over both cans.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on March 30, 2020, 12:28:37 PM
No single part paint in a spray can will last , much better results having your local paint supplier mix up a quart of single stage that uses a catalyst to harden .
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 30, 2020, 12:33:59 PM
Never got good gloss from the BH spray can paint. Always dries to semi gloss to semi flat.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on March 30, 2020, 12:37:21 PM
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 30, 2020, 12:33:59 PM
Never got good gloss from the BH spray can paint. Always dries to semi gloss to semi flat.

I've even tried it out of a gun - same result.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on March 30, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Thank you Christopher,  that's definitely something to consider. I haven't had any paint shipped before, is it really that expensive now?

As for the in house mixing, what sort of prep work is required,  meaning do you have to prime it before you paint it,  or does that paint go directly onto the metal?
Do you have to etch the metal with anything, these sorts of things that are necessary for painting a car?
I don't know anything about this kind of engine paint and I don't want to get in over my head with a really complicated process, because the screw ups are a pain to fix. Not to mention expensive.
Thanks for your input.

Rick
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Lexi on March 30, 2020, 01:24:11 PM
Rick if I correctly remember the Hirsch instructions; you can apply the paint directly onto clean, raw cast iron. No problem there. Old paint, grease, dirt etc., must be removed first though. When painting other metal surfaces such as valve covers, oil pans, etc., make sure you first prime coat with the Hirsch grey metal primer first. Great product, easy idiot proof to use. Hardly if ever sags. Believe it is also formulated for high heat applications. The Hirsch Cadillac dark blue brush on Cadillac engine paint works very, very well and gives a richer gloss than the spray format. I also seem to recall that it was NOT recommended to apply the Hirsch spray paint over an area that was previously brushed on as it may encourage de-lamination, (via solvent attack), even with the base coat being fully cured. Think best to let stand for up to 2 weeks prior to starting your engine. And yes, Chris as usual is right on, buy 2 cans. I would actually buy 3. When coating the primed steel areas more paint is required to "hide" the grey primer color. It has been my experience that say between every 8 - 10 Hirsch spray cans you get a dud (bad nozzle?), and in some cases there is a complete failure of the spray can to work. You don't want to experience that come paint application time. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on March 30, 2020, 03:21:11 PM
Oddly enough, this came up in my "Facebook memories" just now.
A year ago today I painted The Ark's engine with the Hirsch paint.

https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/2150555531726251/
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Caddieman53 on April 01, 2020, 07:01:29 AM
Quote from: 35-709 on March 30, 2020, 11:15:33 AM
Cadillac Engine Blue remained the same from the first year 1953 until Cadillac went with the Corporate Blue in '77 or so.  It is no longer available at your local parts store and hasn't been for a long time.  Bill Hirsch is the usual go-to place for it in quarts or rattle cans as Laurie noted.  The brush-on in quarts flows out very nicely or spray it as Dan suggested.
It has been said that Rustoleum Royal Blue mixed with Rustoleum Black can be mixed to come very close to the Cadillac Engine Blue but you don't get the high temp. qualities.
Please don't paint it corporate blue --- wayyy ugly on a pre-'77 engine, in my opinion.  Ford Dark Blue is kind of close but no cigar, it could be used I suppose.

   
I'm pretty sure that the Cadillac Engine Blue started in 1949 with the introduction of the 331 overhead valve V8.

Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: 35-709 on April 01, 2020, 10:22:48 AM
 :)  You are absolutely correct, why I said 1953 when even I know better I do not know.  A slip of the tongue, so to speak.  Thanks.
Geoff N.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: kkarrer on April 01, 2020, 10:49:38 AM
Gentlemen,
   Orr-Lac 955 is a correct Cadillac Blue paint.  I just ordered another can of it from Terrill Machine in Terrill, Texas.  You can find them on-line.  I also use Bill Hirsch's Cadillac Blue.  The colors are the same and if correctly applied correctly (clean, bead blast, prime with self etching primer, and spray two coats)the both hold up very well.  The biggest difference is in the set up/drying time.  The Orr-Lac dries very quickly, so if you're trying to get those valve covers or the oil pan back on quickly that is always my choice.  If you have time to wait, the Hirsch paint will set up well in about a day depending upon temperature and humidity.  POR 15 also makes a Cadillac Blue paint (42088) and while I've used lots of their stuff I haven't tried the Cadillac Blue.  I'd be interested to know if anyone has as used their 42088 as their stuff really holds up to high temps and really locks down rust. Intake manifolds are where you really need something that will hold up to the heat.
Ken Karrer
CenTex CLC Reg. Dir.
1932 AWPhaeton
1963 Convertible
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Saturnin15 on April 04, 2020, 07:22:17 PM
I did mine with Por15 and it’s apply very well.  Also have a nice shine.  But it doesn’t hold on the centre of the intake manifold.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: abriddell on April 04, 2020, 08:51:57 PM
I rebuilt my 72 Eldorado engine about 2 years ago and used KBS “motor coater” Cadillac blue. It turned out nicely and has held up well.

https://www.kbs-coatings.com/Motor-Coater.html

Andrew Briddell
McFarland, WI

Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on April 06, 2020, 10:50:30 AM
Thank you all for your expertise and experience with this paint. It gives me a lot to think about.

I do have another question about the mixed paint.  It was mentioned that the sheet metal parts be primed before painting with the rattle can paint. Is it also recommended to prime these if you use the mixed paint?

And another question, do most of you paint your parts before you assemble the engine, or do you paint it after the assembly process?
I've done it both ways. Painting the pieces before assembly gives it a more professional look in my opinion,  as your gaskets then are not painted over. But masking off the mating surfaces leaves places where the gasket doesn't cover,  so you wind up with areas that are not painted and prone to rust over time then.

Another question is does anyone else use a blast cabinet to clean up their parts? I've been doing this for a while now, but the surfaces of the sheet metal parts become more grainy looking because of it, and the paint doesn't seem to hide this regardless of how many coats are applied to it.
But blasting seems to be the only way to remove the rust and paint effectively. I use a copper slag material in my blast cabinet and it's pretty good at taking off rust and paint. I had used walnut shell when I first got the cabinet, but it took forever to get anything done. I guess it is good for soft materials like aluminum or pot metal, but useless on cast iron and sheet metal.
Does anyone have a better choice of material for blasting parts clean? I like the copper slag because it does last a while before it needs to be replaced. It is hard on the window material though.
Thanks again for the help,

Rick
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on April 06, 2020, 10:59:10 AM
Gaskets would've been painted over originally but the decision whether "authentic" or "professional" finished look is up to the individual.

My experience that high temp engine primer will provide far better adhesion therefore will last far longer than when this step is not taken. Wasn't done originally which is why original engine paint always flecked off.

Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Lexi on April 06, 2020, 11:33:04 AM
Rick copper slag is great for removing stubborn rust and scale, and you get a lot of mileage out of it. It does "tattoo" the metal a bit though. Yes, it also eats window film especially in a table top blaster. A larger floor model is more forgiving. Better window angle and with more space, so you can deflect more of the media away from your viewing port and get more life out of your window covering. An exhaust recovery system should also help. You might want to try glass beads for a less aggressive choice of media, on those parts where a better painted finish is required. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on April 06, 2020, 12:04:07 PM
Thanks Clay,

Yes, I try to deflect the blast away from the window. The original glass was damaged beyond use,  so I began using Lexan Plastic in layers. It takes 3 layers to equal the thickness of the original glass,  and this way I don't have to replace it all at one time. Just the inner piece. And the newest piece goes on the outside. 
My cabinet is 4 feet wide,  so I can get fairly large pieces in it. I did the wheels for my 56 in it. It sure beats doing it outside with a sandblaster.
  I haven't tried any other kinds of media material because I didn't know how well any other types would work. And if it doesn't last very long,  it's probably not worth it to switch.
  I do have a vacuum recovery system for it as well. That really helps to keep the thing somewhat clear so I can see what I am doing.

Rick
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Lexi on April 06, 2020, 12:10:20 PM
Are you aware of the window film sheets of clear acrylic that are designed to adhere to the inside glass? These sheets take the punishment of the media blasting, thus saving your glass. They are a sacrificial component. When they wear out you peel them off and put a new one on. They fit on with double sided tape. "Horrible Fright" (Harbour Freight) may carry them. The glass beads will wear out faster than the copper slag you are using. Biggest problem with blasting cabinets is being able to see inside what you are doing. The lighting is usually not sufficient. Good you have a recovery system. Clay/Lexi

Edit: I have made my own sacrificial viewing window using rolls of clear (acrylic?) designed for use to cut to size to protect books without dust jackets. A library supply product. They also sell sheets of acrylic designed to wrap around dust jackets and these are cut to size. You may luck out and find a size that fits your cabinet's viewing window. Just buy some double sided tape and your good to go.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on April 06, 2020, 12:18:28 PM
LOL!!
I like the new name there! No, unfortunately I didn't know about those, or I would have been using them.  Now too, unfortunately, I had tossed the old glass out when it was no longer useable. I bought the cabinet used, and didn't know much about it before hand. I would need to get a new glass for it now.  It's a Skatblast brand, which I think is a good one. I've had to order new gloves for it a couple of times, and a new pick-up tube,as it had a hole worn in it from the media where it makes a bend on the top.

Rick

PS: That might be a good option.  The Lexan sheet I buy is big enough to get 4 pieces out of it. But it costs me something like $30. for it if memory serves right. I remember thinking that each window was about 7 or 8 bucks apiece. The window size is 12 by 24  inches.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Lexi on April 06, 2020, 12:21:54 PM
Rick, see edit to my last post. Horrible Fright may also sell gloves and rings (and I know I can get them up here from a similar retailer). Skatblast...hmmm  I hope the Forum Administrator doesn't have a problem with that name! Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on April 06, 2020, 12:25:37 PM
Why would the name be a problem? Just curious about that.
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Lexi on April 06, 2020, 12:35:08 PM
"Skat" is a term that has a few different meanings, one of which is "feces", though usually spelled differently. Also refers to the non-sensical gibberish spoken in some music forms, (remember The Scatman?). It also refers to a type of card game. Is this "scat" talk Cadillac related Rick??? LOL. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on April 06, 2020, 01:43:55 PM
I hadn't really thought about the name before,  but I guess you can make reference to those meanings.
I mentioned it because I used the machine to clean up my Cadillac parts, so the answer is a big fat YES! LOL! 
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Lexi on April 06, 2020, 01:58:32 PM
Rick here is the window film available up here from Princess Auto. Not sure about availability in the US. Perhaps PA will ship to you? Clay/Lexi

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/10-pc-22-x-10-in-abrasive-blasting-cabinet-window-film/A-p8578759e
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Cadman-iac on April 06, 2020, 02:21:25 PM
Hey Clay,
Does that stuff have the adhesive on each piece, or do you have to apply it yourself to each piece?
I like the idea. It would save me money in the long run.
Thanks for the suggestion.

Rick
Title: Re: Cadillac blue engine paint
Post by: Lexi on April 06, 2020, 02:39:50 PM
When I last purchased it, each piece had the adhesive already attached. You just peel off the protective layer prior to sticking it to the inside of your cabinet window. Clay/Lexi