It felt good to get the car out for a spin this morning. The weather is beautiful here on Long Island. Although the Interstate dressed up battery is not 100% of what the original battery looked like I am very happy with the result.
You could have fooled me!
Car (and battery) look great.
If there's anything good about our current situation traffic is a lot lighter these days making it easier to pilot our "yachts".
"Hard to port Mr. Shrivers! Full speed ahead!"
Yes, "weigh anchor" and "Damn the torpedoes". Clay/Lexi
Quote from: lexi on May 14, 2020, 01:36:12 PM
Yes, "weigh anchor" and "Damn the torpedoes". Clay/Lexi
"Torpedoes", isn't that just another word for "toyota"?
Could be. Up here, it seems that a lot of "Beamers" are the torpedoes. Many crazies out there, piloting those cars. Fortunately we got 5 water tight bulkhead compartments. Clay/Lexi
Quote from: lexi on May 14, 2020, 01:54:55 PM
Could be. Up here, it seems that a lot of "Beamers" are the torpedoes. Many crazies out there, piloting those cars. Fortunately we got 5 water tight bulkhead compartments. Clay/Lexi
The "beamers" are the "V2's", the "Toyotas" are the "Kamakazis",
And you still have to watch out for the icebergs! They are all dangerous.
Haha. I guess the V1s are the crazies on the motor bikes darting in and out of slower moving traffic, though they sometimes behave more like kamikazes as many of them drive as though they have a death wish. Almost took one out with my left dagmar last year. Boy was that rider surprised when he cut close in front of me-only see another 2 or 3 feet of lethal chrome. If choppy seas, do as Tony Curtis suggested in Some Like it Hot onboard The New Caledonia yacht; head for the "storm cellar". Clay/Lexi
BTW Jon-nice to see you had your land yacht out today. I weighed anchor briefly yesterday.
"Lethal Dagmars"!!! Yes, everybody else must watch out for those!
This yahoo on the "crotch rocket" deliberately cut me off-and was doin' the whole lean out thing as he grazed by my front clip, real close. He obviously did not expect to see mounds of chrome laden bumper as he made a correction at the last instant, dangerously wobbled, but recovered in the nick of time. An idiot to be sure, who almost paid with his life. If he fell I could not have stopped in time. He would have had 2.5 - 3 tons of Series 75 rolling over him at about 30 mph. Back to the nautical jokes, Lexi's rudder is sluggish and would not have been capable of avoiding a strike. For the rest of the day she "zig-zagged" to avoid similar torpedoes. Clay/Lexi
So would you say that this could have been his final "docking maneuver"?
He would have become just so much "chum" then.
Of course all the lawyers, or "sharks" would have been all over you.
:) ;) :D ;D Yep. Almost sent him to "Davey Jones's locker". The old "Deep Six". And to elevate him to the Jetson's era, he almost took that rocket ride into space. You are hilarious Cadman-iac. And kudos for Jon for putting up with us in his thread! Clay/Lexi
P.S. Should Jon read this, what exactly is not quite 100% with your battery's appearance?
You mean he almost turned his "crotch rocket" into a "cruise missile" don't you?
And to stay on topic, I didn't see anything wrong with that battery. Maybe it's not quite the right size or something, you can't really tell from the picture, as half of it is hidden.
Quote from: Cadman-iac on May 14, 2020, 04:56:38 PM
You mean he almost turned his "crotch rocket" into a "cruise missile" don't you?
And to stay on topic, I didn't see anything wrong with that battery. Maybe it's not quite the right size or something, you can't really tell from the picture, as half of it is hidden.
I added a third picture
Well, it almost looks like it doesn't fit into the battery tray correctly. Is that the issue you're having?
That is what I thought. Would like to know more about the battery issue. I have one here, NOS, dating from probably 1959, and is said to be the proper replacement battery used for 1956 Cadillac. Been seriously considering buying acid for it as the cells appear rust free. Just have not had the heart to do this and start the self destructing process that will occur, once acid is put into the cells. I had a battery expert tell me that with respect to my car, the battery that was installed by the factory would have been slightly different than the one I have, which is considered the replacement battery, even if purchased in 1956. In my case I believe the difference was the name "Delco" on the side panel; painted vs non-painted. Not 100% on that though. Perhaps Jon's battery also to appear "factory" correct should not have "Delco" in yellow on the side. Anyone know the answer to this? Clay/Lexi
Lexi - The battery is actually an Interstate Group 27 battery (closest size to the original) to which I added custom individual vinyl cut letters to the front that duplicate the original raised letters that came on the battery with the car. In addition I replaced the (2) 3 gang cell covers with individual press in Delco vented caps I had a friend design in Belgium. The actual spacing of the caps is different than the original Factory battery would have been but from my point of view, I think it looks fantastic. As you know I don’t have the car judged and show it very infrequently. I just enjoy driving it and enjoying it. My dad bought this car Brand new in August 1958.
I showed the battery to my friend Who is a 1957 Chevy fanatic today, and he was trying to lift the top of the battery off thinking it was a Topper. He was very impressed with how it looked. I’m happy with the outcome.
Jon thanks. I love your car and the fact that it is still in the family blows me away. Clay/Lexi
I buy those DELCO stickers from the guy in Ohio. As much as I want to spend to make my battery in the '58 semi-authentic (about $5.00)
Quote from: TonyZappone #2624 on May 15, 2020, 05:56:41 AM
I buy those DELCO stickers from the guy in Ohio. As much as I want to spend to make my battery in the '58 semi-authentic (about $5.00)
Tony - Those stickers you buy are not individual letters but come on a glossy black square that looks funky. Mine are individual letters.
I produce these cut out high performance cast 3M vinyl pre-spaced ready to apply in correct colors for 57-58. This material is rated for 10 years outdoors and will conform to irregularities in the surface to be applied.
Wow! Where'd you get those?
I make them. Possibly correct for '56 and others, but not confirmed.
According to the Authenticity Manual, the 1956 Cadillac battery did not have the painted lettering on the side. It is there, cast into the battery panel, but not colored. The lead tech and I believe new owner of antique battery told me that the replacement battery for the '56 Caddy was the DC-7 as pictured below. Even if you had a defective factory installed battery in 1956, your replacement would look like this one in the photo he advised, (of an NOS example in my collection-from 1959). I posted a couple of pics one of which shows the side box of an NOS DC-7 with some information. Unless you buy a replica (which I think are still available), many owners install a 3EE into their '54 - '56 Caddies. Military and pallet truck and some tractors still use this odd size battery. Not sure about Jon's battery though, (1958), which I believe was a more conventional size. Think Cadillac changed from this "tractor" battery to a more normal looking one in 1957. Clay/Lexi
I'm sure I could produce a high performance vinyl copy of the '56 replacement battery graphic above if one wanted to dress up a modern battery. The one I posted for 57-58 was copied from an original Delco service bulletin which I have.
Art, if you want a good photograph of it, with a scale for size reference, PM me with your email and I will send you a high resolution image. Clay/Lexi
Quote from: lexi on May 15, 2020, 03:40:19 PM
Art, if you want a good photograph of it, with a scale for size reference, PM me with your email and I will send you a high resolution image. Clay/Lexi
Awesome, that'd be great!
Quote from: signart on May 15, 2020, 10:53:20 AM
I produce these cut out high performance cast 3M vinyl pre-spaced ready to apply in correct colors for 57-58. This material is rated for 10 years outdoors and will conform to irregularities in the surface to be applied.
Is it one large sticker with a black background or are they individual transferable letters like mine?
That oddball battery for the 54, 55, and 56, and possibly a few other years is available from Tractor Supply Company, TCS, as the 3EE. I was at one of our local car gatherings on a Friday night and a guy with a 49 Buick had one in his car. Since I knew that was the size I would need for my car, I asked him about it and he said that they carry it in stock at the local Tractor Supply store. I checked with them and they do have it, at least here anyway.
I can't remember what the price was, but it wasn't really that bad.
What battery do you use for your 56 Clay?
I've kicked around moving the battery in mine, and going with a more conventional type, simply because of how hard it is to get to the original position. But that's a ways off yet. Gotta get a new shop built first.
Rick
Quote from: Jon S on May 15, 2020, 04:34:09 PM
Is it one large sticker with a black background or are they individual transferable letters like mine?
Yes, I just mocked up a quick battery image for illustration purposes. The letters are cut out with 3M hi-perf cast vinyl and transfer tape applied over entire set ready for application. The users' battery case would be the actual background.
Beautiful car by the way, Jon. I literally traveled the world as a kid in a 1958 Prestwick Gray metallic Sedan DeVille. My father was in the USAF when we got stationed in Laon, France and took the caddy with us. We made trips to several countries before returning to the states traveling 5 days on the SS United States ocean liner with the '58 in the belly!
Quote from: lexi on May 15, 2020, 02:58:35 PM
According to the Authenticity Manual, the 1956 Cadillac battery did not have the painted lettering on the side. It is there, cast into the battery panel, but not colored. The lead tech and I believe new owner of antique battery told me that the replacement battery for the '56 Caddy was the DC-7 as pictured below. Even if you had a defective factory installed battery in 1956, your replacement would look like this one in the photo he advised, (of an NOS example in my collection-from 1959). I posted a couple of pics one of which shows the side box of an NOS DC-7 with some information. Unless you buy a replica (which I think are still available), many owners install a 3EE into their '54 - '56 Caddies. Military and pallet truck and some tractors still use this odd size battery. Not sure about Jon's battery though, (1958), which I believe was a more conventional size. Think Cadillac changed from this "tractor" battery to a more normal looking one in 1957. Clay/Lexi
Lexi - The original 1958 battery was indeed a more conventional battery. The primary difference was that the three caps on each side of the hold down were positioned in a vertical as opposed to a horizontal configuration. Obviously the cells ran horizontally as opposed to vertically probably for easier checking of the fluid levels since the battery was tucked under the right fender. The Delco lettering on the front of the battery were raised letters all in yellow as mine depicts.
Jon thanks. I thought the '58 was a more conventional battery, now I know for sure. Cadman-iac, I use a standard 3EE in mine. There are a couple of sizes (can't remember if both called 3EE), but one is slightly larger, especially in height and you may not be able to connect your OEM negative cable. It may not reach. So check the measurements before buying. Think Interstate made my 3EE. You can also buy repros of the DC-7 battery. I posted a picture of an original NOS survivor I have from the late 50s, but as I recall the repros look exactly the same. I am looking for a photo of such to post. Art I sent those photos to you. Enjoy! Also, great story you have as a kid with your travels. Clay/Lexi
Quote from: Jon S on May 15, 2020, 06:55:12 PM
Lexi - The original 1958 battery was indeed a more conventional battery. The primary difference was that the three caps on each side of the hold down were positioned in a vertical as opposed to a horizontal configuration. Obviously the cells ran horizontally as opposwd to vertically probably for easier checking of the fluid levels since the battery was tucked under the right fender. The Delco lettering on the front of the battery were raised letters all in yellow as mine depicts.
I wonder what reference did you use to determine that all the lettering was yellow?
Quote from: signart on May 15, 2020, 10:01:03 PM
I wonder what reference did you use to determine that all the lettering was yellow?
Attached is a picture of the Factory battery. Note the vertical caps as I noted previously. As to the yellow color, the original battery was kept many years in the garage after it was replaced and I remember it well. I also worked for a United Delco distributor in the 1960’s and prepped many of these batteries with sulfuric acid. They had all yellow letters also. Even the attached B/W picture would show a difference in shade if all lettering was not the same color. Hope that helps.
Some photos from my collection of dated original materials. I think the jury is still out until an original battery is produced.
Quote from: signart on May 16, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
Some photos from my collection of dated original materials. I think the jury is still out until an original battery is produced.
There’s a big difference between sales promotion material and the actual thing. Look at the engine pictures in the sales brochures and then look at the actual engines and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Those of us who were around and worked on these cars and products when they were new remember.
I have attached pictures of GM Official Licensed Product stickers. Notice they are all yellow letters. My Jury is not out. That’s how they were. I just took my sticker to the next level and made them individual letters without that funky black background.
All interesting stuff. Not sure who is correct, but things to consider... I know for '56 there are images that show various portions of the car which when compared to the real thing are not correct, such as; horn ring center, engine side shot, generator fan, oil canister top, steering pump cover and dare I say even the battery. Most of these are appear to be draftsman's renditions with some even being re-cycled from previous model years. Then they made changes mid-year, for example the horn ring center which period data indicates there were 3 different ones (but in reality just 2). The sales brochures also seem to exaggerate the lines of some of the cars, (again not real photos). I think this was changed in the '60s when real photographs were then used. Then we always have the scenario where the dealer may have had to make a change for whatever reason, prior to passing ownership of the car to the buyer. So Jon makes a good point as things are not always as they may seem if one is to base an opinion on period images and sales material. Sadly for us some 60 - 65 years later, we are left scrambling to figure this stuff out. Clay/Lexi
Lexi - Jim Olson made stickers for these cars and did thorough research. His battery Stickers we’re also all yellow letters. I have been to hundreds of car shows - AACA and higher and have never seen multicolor letters on a 1950’s Delco battery.
I don't have an opinion on what the '58 battery should look like. Don't know much about them. Seems like you maintain that the colors were not yellow and white, but just yellow, if I read your text properly. So, if Jim Olson properly researched this, your comments seem reasonable.
I just know what the '56 replacement battery looks like, (also all yellow), as I have one from the 1950s as pictured above. The shop manual shows the "battery" as all black, though how accurate is that image? Ditto my above discussion. Perhaps that is what the writers of the 1954 - 1956 Cadillac Authenticity Manual based their comments on a '56 factory battery being all black. Don't know. The tech and battery builder for antique battery immediately identified my NOS one as a period "replacement battery". Wish now I had asked him what the factory battery for my car would have looked like, (assuming he knew).
All interesting stuff and easy to see why "the devil is in the details" for those restoring a vintage car to be a 100 point winner. I did my engine and engine bay peripherals in 2018 - 2019 and that drove me nuts sourcing original parts and proper paint; right down to determining what color the various fasteners should be. Makes me appreciate all the more survivor cars as reference vehicles. Clay/Lexi
I’ve put this discussion to bed. I don’t have my car judged so the cap alignment is unimportant to me, but as you know the car was purchased brand new by my dad and I worked on the car since day one. I also sold and prepared these batteries in the early 1960s so I know precisely what they looked like back then. The picture I attached from my shop manual is exactly what the car came with from the Factory. Again I will say people can provide whatever documentation they want but unless you were alive and there in the time and have a good memory nothing else matters. I posted pictures of my battery to share with fellow members on the forum and not to become a major discussion item. I am very pleased with my results and to me that’s all that matters.
So as not to "muddy the waters", so to speak, I don't have a reason to doubt your comments. Cross purposes popped up here though; discussions on batteries from 2 different years. For those who are interested in originality & for judging, I hope that they can come away with some new information from this thread. Sometimes these discussions arise as a logical consequence and sequel to that posted. If a "major discussion item" was meant to infer that the topic is a burden, I am certain that is not how the other contributors see it. I am sure others found the information quite interesting both from a documentary perspective as well as from your personal experience. You provided invaluable input from someone who was there. This exchange of information should be what it is all about. Clay/Lexi
Well to me that car is beautiful, and I don't see any problem with the battery. I guess I misunderstood your initial post, I thought you were asking for information or advice, not that I have much to offer.
Anyway, I think it's great that your car has been in the family since new. I really like the color, it's very close, if not the same, as what mine is/was new. I want to keep it that color, even though I love a red or white, or a blue car, I find that the color on mine, and yours, isn't all that common anymore, at least not around here.
As for a battery for mine, I really don't care if it isn't an exact match to what it had when it rolled out of the factory. In fact, I'm thinking about moving it to another location, simply because of how hard it is to access. I can't imagine trying to lift and lower a 3EE battery in and out of my 56.
But your battery looks fine to me. If you hadn't said anything about it not being an original, I would never have known otherwise. I have to admit that your approach to the label is a better idea and definitely looks much better than the one with the black background on it.
Congratulations on your stickers, and enjoy the ride and stay safe.
Rick
Thanks Rick!
Yes it is a gorgeous car. And yes installing and removing a 3EE is no piece of cake. The battery from hell, as I call them. Also, try checking your fluid levels in the last 2 caps hidden under the fender. Best to remove the 4 inch hose. They are a PITA! Clay/Lexi
Quote from: lexi on May 16, 2020, 12:25:32 PM
Yes it is a gorgeous car. And yes installing and removing a 3EE is no piece of cake. The battery from hell, as I call them. Also, try checking your fluid levels in the last 2 caps hidden under the fender. Best to remove the 4 inch hose. They are a PITA! Clay/Lexi
Yeah, I've thought that GM should have put in an access door and put the battery tray on tracks so that it could be slid out through the side of the fender for service or replacement. (Kidding of course, but it would be helpful.)
On my car in the condition that the paint is in now, I would probably attempt to install one, (meaning the original battery in the original location) but for a car with beautiful paint like yours Clay, I don't see how you could risk it.
Paint not as great as you may think. Old lacquer from the 70s, but OK. I have taken the battery out several times. You have to tip it close to a 90 degree angle at one point to get it out. And remove quickly before elctrolyte leaks from the caps. Also, tie off your negative strap, lest it fall down into the chassis area when disconnected and moved out of the way. Clay/Lexi
I'm not doubting any information from anyone here, I'm just researching. Being a collector and trader of all things vintage, as I research, I learn.
As I noted previously my admiration for Jon's beautiful '58, every bit as gorgeous if it had an Optima battery.