I have to help sell a friend's 1959 Coupe converted to Convertible. This was professionally done many years ago and it was done well. Fully functioning top with the front window frame replaced to lock the top in place. The coupe interior was replaced with non-1959 interior which was later replaced with more modern Cadillac convertible interior with a center console. The rest of the car is in great condition.
I am working on getting pictures to help. There isn't any references out there that I can find for pricing this fairly. I could use some guidance with this. Please keep the comments constructive, the car is what it is and it is what I have to deal with.
You might find the attached thread of interest:
http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=149829.0
As you might imagine, this topic has been discussed
on the Forum previously.
Mike
In my judgement, in the present market, a seller only requires one person with a passion and the bucks to come through for a sale--and there are a bunch of people with appreciated stocks who can afford to spend some money on something fun. Clearly, an entirely honest presentation will permit any potential buyer to understand the significant difference among present day available examples. So my thinking is that some significant discount in price between the "numbers matching resortation," "an extraordinary low mileage unmolested show car," and this well engineered and perfectly serviceable conversion are parts of the calculus for the seller, and certainly for the potential purchaser. If I wanted one, I'd be mightily attracted to the conversion IF it is well engineered, attractive, and has some safety features that are not available on the "real thing." I think I'd feel that such a car would be far more "useable" and fun to own, rather than owning an expensive "objet d'art" that rarely sees sunlight. Thanks for posing this interesting question, James
Modified cars are a funny thing. Some actually bring more money than a well done restored car. There is a company called Revology here in Florida that sells completely modernized versions of the 60's Mustang. It is a legit company that actually has the blessing of Ford and issues new VIN's for the cars. They sell for over 100K dollars-- well above what the stock restored versions would bring at auction.
With that said, I agree with James. If the car is done professionally and operates flawlessly than it may very well have a bit of interest to the right person. Especially since original '59 convertibles are quite pricey. In my business I see cars like this often. Those well done usually find a legit buyer for a decent price. It will take a "car guy" to appreciate it.
Photos are a must to even get close to a price I would estimate for the car. It's all about the quality of it all. Paint, upholstery, overall condition of the frame and suspension (was the frame properly reinforced when the top was cut off(?) all are in consideration when factoring a sale price. Most folks interested in the car will be looking at all of it not just the top conversion.
Regards, Ken
As I posted on FB: It depends on how well the car presents, ie condition/quality, colors etc. All things equal I would estimate 50 to 60% of the value of a factory built Series 62 convertible identical in all other ways - assuming stock appearance was retained in all areas with no visible signs of the car having been converted.
Ken is dead on. Questions pertaining to whether the frame was reinforced & it's present condition, could make or break the deal, (and significantly impact value). Too many unknowns to speculate on value at this time. Clay/Lexi
I'm glad I asked the question here before I went over because I never would have thought about taking pictures of the frame.
The "non-1959" interior alone will likely invoke a significant value penalty.
I never understood why someone would change the interior on a 59. I LOVE the hardtop interiors and think the drop top ones are swanky.
Quote from: 55 CDV Fan 82 on May 05, 2021, 01:23:17 PM
I never understood why someone would change the interior on a 59.
Usually done as a cost saving measure more than anything else.
Quote from: 55 CDV Fan 82 on May 05, 2021, 01:23:17 PM
I never understood why someone would change the interior on a 59. I LOVE the hardtop interiors and think the drop top ones are swanky.
My guess is the convertible top and mechanisms wouldn't fit with the coupe rear seat and actual 59 convertible interiors are very expensive, too expensive for a non original convertible.
I got some pictures of the frame and it was reinforced with additional plates and tie-ins.
Half the price of a coupe 15k
Well to be honest the interior leaves a lot to be desired-- or at least the rear seats you show. Baggy and ill fitting.
The reinforcment of the frame is in some places looks OK but I can tell you my '58 Biarritz has 1/2" thick bar stock welded to the bottom of the frame all the way back. It looks like in one photo the piece under the frame is only about a quarter of an inch. And to be sure the '59 is a heavier car (I would assume). Now I'm not a '59 expert so not sure what Cadillac did as factory. But someone here could probably post some photos of their OEM '59 Cadillac convertible frame to compare.
Not to put too fine a point on it but this frame thing is important as it will effect the flex (or non flex) of the body that affects the door gaps and closures and even the alignment of the windshield frame to the top. The car may run out fine with no issues. Just something I would want to check as a buyer. Having those issues can take the joy of ownership right out of the car.
But with that said, more photos of the body, chrome-work, and engine compartment (original 390 ci ?) would be in order to truly access the value of the car. In my mind every car has it's price point. Probably will sell just fine but the big question is, of course, at what price? We have to see more photos to reach that point.
Plus have to ask; Is it a running and driving car that's road ready? Or has it sat for some time. All are "price factors"
Regards, Ken
TBH I say throw it on Bring A Trailer. You'd be surprised what some cars go for.
I've never used Bringatrailer. Are they selective on what is advertised/auctioned on they webpage?
I think the seats, particularly the bulging seat belt housing on the front seats would be a big no-deal for me.
Quote from: dinhnguyen57 on May 06, 2021, 01:47:36 PM
I've never used Bringatrailer. Are they selective on what is advertised/auctioned on they webpage?
Supposedly they are according to their website.
I say yes to BAT. I've deduced that it is a great place to sell but no so great to buy. Deep pockets seem to bid even questionable cars up to silly prices. How's a restored Fiat Jolly selling for $146K. Yikes!
As for the select-ability issue of Bring a Trailer... I recently saw a 1938 Studebaker Express Pick up that looked like someone dragged it out of a mid west desert after 40 years of sitting. Rust, rust through, no interior, missing most of the chrome, lights, etc. and the last time I checked it was at $7100. Kinda shocking.
just my 2 cents worth.
For consignments Bat seems to be looking for examples that fall into either of two basic categories: 1, Cars not particularly rare/sought after (generally speaking) but in high grade (esp) original condition and 2, extremely rare and/or blue chip collectible status but acceptable in "barn find" or restorable condition.
So for example a 1976 Sedan deVille would have to be in pristine as-new condition, but a 1953 Eldorado could be a basket case. If this '59 was a genuine 6267 body style convertible they would likely accept it no questions asked, possibly a conversion with a correct high quality interior but between the combination of a modified body style + the poor quality and wrong interior might be a leap too far. And that's assuming the body is in presentable condition which is still unknown.
Ebay would be the best place to list this car.
So here are some pictures of the car for reference.
Some of this car's interior,sporting more contemporary elements may well be far more attractive to some folks in contrast with the origiinal interiors, and depending on a close inspection, this car should bring significant dollars. If I were younger and had the dollars to spend on a '59 convert, I would most certainly want to inspect this one, especially, as I mentioned (above), my motivation would be to use the car, protect it, but not experience anxiety attacks every time I clocked another 100 miles on the odometer. .The purchaser would likely be similarly interested and not focused on authenticity. All this is to say, is there a market for highly desireable, yet modified cars that sport the original sheetmetal, chrome, and adorements... and, in my judgment, the answer is as resounding yes. James