Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => Technical / Authenticity => Topic started by: Bob Kielar on July 04, 2022, 12:24:04 PM

Title: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 04, 2022, 12:24:04 PM
66F895A5-7656-4B2C-B8FA-6B2F583785F2.jpeg On our way home from Grand Nationals in our 55 Fleetwood I had to stop for fuel so I had to use Mobile ethanol premium. Annie(the name of our 55) started to misfire when we got on the tollway. I just thought it was a fuel problem so we limped her home to Janesville Wi. I could only due 60-65 mph and she would not idle without killing. Annie has run fine but not great on ethanol before so I thought of checking the points and spark plugs. Points a little worn so I change them no help. I then started pulling the spark plugs and look what I found on #4 cylinder. Took a compression check on #4 cylinder and it reads 0.😩 Always wanted to buy a borescope I'm afraid something broke and smashed the spark plug. Any thoughts would be appreciated?

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: TJ Hopland on July 04, 2022, 12:47:15 PM
No noises it just seemed to loose power?  A bore scope would be nice.  Is it easy to pull the valve cover on that side?  Look and see if the valve spring looks normal and to be closing all the way.  Maybe spring broke and valve hit the piston?   
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Alan Harris CLC#1513 on July 04, 2022, 01:41:58 PM
Had a similar problem once on a 1950 Chevrolet. Boroscopes weren't invented yet. When I removed the cylinder head, I found that the top was missing from one of the pistons. Something had come loose and hit the top of it.

UGLY
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 04, 2022, 02:13:16 PM
That's the side the a/c is on I don't know if I can get the cover off to look at the valve springs. My gut feeling is that the head will have to come off. Might as well remove both heads and have them reworked. Hopefully there is no piston damage borescope is due to arrive Wednesday.

Thanks for the replies,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 04, 2022, 02:55:17 PM
To answer your other question there is no real bad noises like a rod knock. 🤞

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Standardoftheworld on July 05, 2022, 02:16:28 AM
I'd be interested to know what caused that . Best of luck to your Cadillac !
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 08, 2022, 03:18:52 PM
Used my new borescope today and here is what it revealed. Broken valve top of piston looks to be ok. What do you think about the cylinder walls due they look scorn? I wonder what caused it to break? I bumped the engine and the valve did move.

Regards,

Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Caddy Wizard on July 08, 2022, 06:00:43 PM
Looks like a relatively clean break across part of the valve.  Perhaps a defective part.  A rather unusual failure mode, in my experience.  The missing piece of the valve probably went out through the exhaust port very quickly and thus probably did little or no damage to the head or piston.  The scoring of the cylinder walls was probably pre-existing.  The missing piece of the valve is probably lodged in the exhaust (muffler or just ahead of the resonator).


Remove the head, check the head for damage, have it rebuilt with new valves and hardened steel valve seat inserts.  Drop the oil pan, undo the connecting rod cap of #4 piston, push piston and rod out through top of the block.  If scoring of the cylinder wall isn't bad, a flexible hone might be employed to VERY LIGHTLY(!!!) hone the cylinder and reinstall the piston (preferably with new rings). Reinstall the rebuilt head.

The car is a very, very attractive car with a lovely paint job.  So as a reminder to all mechanics and weekend warriors out there, don't rest your elbows on the top of the fender, especially when trying to remove something heavy like the AC compressor or the cylinder head.  Doing so will leave little dents in the top of the fender!  Don't be that guy!

Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: James Landi on July 09, 2022, 07:26:36 AM
I think Art has covered it entirely... (you may find that the cylinder wall is fine). I'd be wondering why the damn valve broke that way... did you replace all of the valves during a rebuild? If so, how many miles since the new valve(s) were replaced Perhaps search the inter net for folks having similar failures.   I've been messing around with Cadillac engines for over 60 years, and I've seen my share of cracks in cylinder heads, burnt exhaust valves, and worn piston rings, but never seen or heard of a valve face breaking off as yours has... Even if you "over rev" these engines, the valves will "float" thus protecting them from that kind of damage. Keep us in the loop regarding your progress... hope this helps get other opinions and advice  James
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: CadillacFanBob on July 09, 2022, 02:37:15 PM
Here is a valve issue, NOT with Cadillac, but my son-n-law's PT Cruiser, it ran fine then upon next start up 1 dead cylinder and 25 lbs compression.  Bob I love your dated photos, I will keep following your posts to see the completion.

Bob
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Dr. John T. Welch on July 09, 2022, 06:06:56 PM
Which bore scope did you decide met your needs? 
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!! (Bent Sparkplugs)
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 10, 2022, 10:21:39 AM
The borescope is a Teslong NTS300 it has three lenses and a 16.4 long cable. I watched several videos on this model before purchasing it. The manual is a little vague I called Teslong and they picked up right away. My question was how to connect it to a computer. All I had to do was use the charging cable and the pictures loaded to the computer using my F drive. I'm not that computer savvy so there might be a easier way. It is a robust camera with a lot of great features. Bought it thru Amazon for $180.00.

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!! (Bent Sparkplugs)
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 12, 2022, 09:14:10 AM
Oh Crap! Yesterday I decided to pull the rest of the spark plugs and found this on #1 cylinder another bent plug. I checked compression and it is 150psi. I wonder if I have to long of a plug but one would think it would also be on the rest of the cylinders. Might it be the connecting rods? Any replies would be appreciated.

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: dn010 on July 12, 2022, 09:32:37 AM
At this point, I think it's hard to tell you more until you gather information. You can take a lot of the guess work out of this by pulling the head(s) and then assessing. If you can find any sort of number on your Champion plugs, you can then see if they are correct for your 55 but if they were wrong, they'd all have some sort of damage to them.
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373 on July 12, 2022, 09:39:07 AM
Valves are a big issue on airplane engines. There could be a small chip that doesn't let the heat disapate which causes that part of the valve to get hot and then it just snowballs..... Well, not snowballs because of the heat 😉. Then it finally got to the point where it gave up the ghost. I had a complete valve head break off in our 70. Beat the crap out of the head but not a single scratch on the cylinder wall. Hopefully you are that lucky.
Please let us know what you find. Would also appreciate a few pictures of rhe head and block when the head is pulled.
My son and I have been discussing having the heads redone on our 55.
Good luck

Jeff R
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: hornetball on July 12, 2022, 10:49:48 AM
I once got a set of too-long spark plugs for a late-model Chrysler minivan.  It misfired and when I pulled the plugs I found one closed up like your pictures.  You would think the parts store would be able to get the right plugs for a late-model, common car, wouldn't you?  But it they messed that up, I can only imagine they could mess yours up too.

In any case, only one of the pistons hit enough to close the plug.  There are manufacturing tolerances in deck heights and different amounts of piston rock at TDC.  So, I don't think it would be too unusual to only have issues on a few cylinders instead of all.

BTW, all I did on the minivan was have the parts guy double check, installed the new set of plugs and drove the car for several more years.
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Caddy Wizard on July 12, 2022, 11:27:52 AM
Bob,


I now suspect that something was ingested into your engine and did the damage on these two cylinders.  A little bit of metal was in the #4 cylinder and was going out the exhaust valve opening when the valve closed on it.  The momentum of the valve face hitting the obstruction snapped it off.  A little bit of something was in the #1 cylinder also and when the piston came up, the obstruction was smashed against the plug.

Piston alone didn't crush the plug -- it would be stopped by something else in the combustion chamber first before hitting the plug.

Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: James Landi on July 14, 2022, 07:15:42 AM
"I now suspect that something was ingested into your engine and did the damage on these two cylinders.  A little bit of metal was in the #4 cylinder and was going out the exhaust valve opening when the valve closed on it.  The momentum of the valve face hitting the obstruction snapped it off.  A little bit of something was in the #1 cylinder also and when the piston came up, the obstruction was smashed against the plug."

Art's theory is an interesting possibility.  Way back in the late 60's, a colleague with a 64 Cadillac convertible found the missing lock washer to his carburetor in one his combustion chambers...apparently it took many months to work its way there to do some substantial damage.   James
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on August 16, 2022, 08:36:03 AM
Latest update. Here are some engine pictures of my 55. The broken valve pieces ruined the piston and scored the cylinder walls. The engine has to come out and be rebuilt. The problem is the reputable machine shop near me is backed up with work may not get the Cadillac back until spring.

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Dave Shepherd on August 16, 2022, 10:00:12 AM
Sorta looks like some detonation damage on the piston, if it was there would be evidence on other piston, cause of all this is critical for a proper repair of course.
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on August 16, 2022, 05:04:13 PM
The damage that is shown in the pictures lead me to believe that this engine has been suffering for an extremely long time.

Any sudden, and recent problem would show up in clean, damage, but the pictures show so much carbon build up, that it is impossible to see what is new.

The divots out of the face of the valve are old, and as Dave said, detonation will cause this, and lead to destruction and melting of parts.

Bruce. >:D

Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Poncholover on August 18, 2022, 09:57:06 PM
Nasty. "sorry for your loss"
Saw a race motor one time where the broken valve head piece made it through the exhaust cross over into the other side and destroyed that cylinder too!I would not have believed it if I had not seen it.
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on September 07, 2022, 05:44:32 PM
Latest update: Heads at machine shop they are trash! Someone in the past welded in #4 cylinder exhaust port. The Cadillac has only 36,000 miles on her my theory is that when they started the Cadillac after being stored for so long they didn't do it properly. Then just did a quick repair and sold her. I have had her for 12 years and she ran fine up to now. Luckily about six years ago I bought a set of heads from a fellow member that was moving from Wisconsin to Georgia. He wanted to get rid of some spare parts so I bought them just for the heck of it. Wife gave me one of those stares at the time now she is happy I bought them I just smile. :D

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Lexi on September 07, 2022, 06:38:49 PM
All serious Caddy enthusiasts especially from this era should have an extra set of heads. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on September 20, 2022, 05:23:37 PM
Well things went from bad to worse. The machine shop can not repair the engine it has a cracked block. So if anyone knows of someone with a spare 55 331 engine let me know.
Thanks,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on September 21, 2022, 03:26:11 PM
Sorry to hear that Bob.

I did some checking and found these listings.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/599012381287843/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A249e83e1-468a-4273-8ff8-daace4f5b490

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/719179452734973/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A249e83e1-468a-4273-8ff8-daace4f5b490
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: V63 on September 22, 2022, 08:22:18 PM
These were high compression engines and we do not have the required fuel anymore, so the issue becomes timing too far advanced or retarded. Also complicating things might be timing chain wear.

I wonder if there is an association in #1 and #4, different banks but are they both sisters in the 4 stroke cycle?
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on September 23, 2022, 08:29:31 AM
Thanks for all the replies.

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on February 01, 2023, 03:24:36 PM
Update on Annie (55 Fleetwood). Well it has been a long time in between updates. The original block was "rebuilt" at one point it had numerous cracks in the block and one cylinder sleeve, also I believe #4 cylinder head exhaust chamber was welded so maybe that is what caused the valve to break. I purchased a 55 331 engine from a follow CLC member. It is a long block excluding the water pump,starter,carb,generator,exhaust manifolds,and distributor. I estimated the weight at 500 lbs, with the crate it weighed in at 620lbs. FedEx did not hold up the shipping they just billed me later. The machine shop in Janesville is swamped with work and are down to three employees and can not find any qualified help. The process has taken awhile but good news the block was cleaned and magna fluxed and there are no cracks. Now it is waiting in line to get bored .030 over,decked,heads rebuilt,and the crankshaft turned. The crankshaft has to be sent to another shop because he has no one to run his crankshaft machine. At least it's winter and the roads are full of salt. Hopefully Annie will be ready this spring.

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Lexi on February 01, 2023, 04:53:45 PM
That is good news. Thanks for the update and keep them coming. Good luck with this process. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on February 01, 2023, 05:06:41 PM
Thanks Clay,
This is the engine that the rebuilt check valve will be used.
Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on March 13, 2023, 11:04:27 AM
Update: Engine back from machine shop. Look at all that good stuff. :D

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: CadillacFanBob on March 17, 2023, 09:51:56 PM
Bob, that sure looks purdy on the floor, will look great when assembled and in the car.

Bob
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: bcroe on March 17, 2023, 11:21:59 PM
This sort of thing, with correct fuel no longer
available, is why only engines built for unleaded
are used here.  More cubic inches will compensate
for lower compression.  good luck, Bruce Roe
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on March 21, 2023, 03:10:50 PM
Annie patiently awaiting her new engine. ;D
Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on March 21, 2023, 03:15:34 PM
Engine starting to be assembled. :D
Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on March 22, 2023, 03:34:19 PM
Head's ready to be installed. :D
Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Lexi on March 22, 2023, 03:59:40 PM
That is a beautiful sight. Will be nice to get this behind you, and hopefully just in time for cruizin season (at least up here). Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: wheikkila on March 22, 2023, 07:47:46 PM
It's looking good. Do you have a way to run the engine before you install it?
   Thanks Wayne
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on March 23, 2023, 03:33:32 PM
Yes Wayne thanks for asking. The engine will be run on a stand that has a radiator and all the appropriate gauges to monitor the engine. The engine will be run long enough to break in the new cam. Then it will sit on the stand overnight and test run again to see if it needs any further adjustments. The shop has a dyno. but no way to mount the engine to it. If all goes well fingers crossed the engine will be tested the end of next week.

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: CadillacFanBob on March 30, 2023, 09:42:59 PM
You are doing a great job

Bob
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on March 31, 2023, 10:27:27 AM
Heads and oil pan installed. Rocker arm assemblies had to be shimmed to get proper preload on lifters due to the head's being milled. Did not what to use shorter push rods due to what I read about quality issues with replacement push rods. Oil pump was rebuilt. Some years ago I was able to find a new never used vacuum pump that I kept in dry storage with a little oil on it to prevent rust so that was installed. Getting closer to the test stand.

Keep Cruzin,

Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on April 21, 2023, 03:58:47 PM
Very close to getting on test stand.🤞 Had to order special motor mounts to mount to the stand. After testing engine the engine and components will be painted correct color.

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on April 30, 2023, 09:30:34 AM
Engine made it on the test stand. It was running smooth and as quiet as a church mouse. Oil pressure 40psi cold and 35psi hot running at 2000rpm. Ran for 20 minutes then rubber rear main seal started to leak and also a tick developed. Better to find on the test stand than in the car.

Stay tuned,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Lexi on April 30, 2023, 01:18:08 PM
Keep us posted. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: V63 on April 30, 2023, 02:51:47 PM
I try and off set the rear main seal so not to coincide with main bearing cap of 3 and 9 o'clock. I try 10:30 -4:30
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on May 01, 2023, 08:25:38 AM
Thank you William, I'll pass this information on.

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Caddy Wizard on May 03, 2023, 10:34:20 AM
It is extremely easy to install the rubber main seal backwards.  If so, it will definitely leak.  The seal is a dynamic lip seal and if installed correctly, the oil pressure actually pushes the lip down onto the surface of the crank.  If installed backwards, the oil pressure actually lifts the lip of the seal away from the crank.
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on May 12, 2023, 05:50:37 PM
I was at the shop yesterday and gave him a print out of Arts rear main install procedure. He tried a rope seal and that leaked also. So he has another seal that came with the cam and crank kit. He doesn't know the brand it came from the engine machine shop. It looks like  it has a double lip and not as pliable as a best gasket it's brown in color. Wish I would have taken a picture. They are not charging us for any labor to get the engine running correctly and leak free.

The tick is gone he found a brand new lifter that looked suspect got a replacement and engine is running smooth and quiet. Now just to get rid of that pesty leak.
Thanks for all the replies.
Stay tuned,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on May 18, 2023, 08:18:07 AM
Got to see  engine run on test stand. So far all is good no ticks or leaks. He had to use a new rubber seal that came with the rebuild kit from Rebuilders Choice that the machine shop purchased. There was no brand name on the seal maybe I'll call the supplier to see if they know. It has an extra lip on it compared to best and fel pro the brown seal in the pictures is the one he used. The other pictures are at low idle showing oil psi, water temp,vacuum from pump in oil pan. There is a short video if you care to watch running at a higher rpm and another running lower rpm. Next will be paint the engine and install hopefully next week and then more tuning with a load on the engine. The last picture is of Annie waiting in the rafters for her new engine. ;D
Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar



https://youtu.be/39zR8z2vBt8

https://youtube.com/shorts/j1VCua3nJ2w?
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Caddy Wizard on May 18, 2023, 09:32:58 AM
Bob,


The extra lip/double lip on the brown seal doesn't ride on the crankshaft journal -- it helps fill the slot that the seal fits in.  Only the single lip on the brown seal rides on the crankshaft journal.

My guess about the leak is that the other rubber seal didn't fill the opening as well as this one does (it wasn't as tight of a fit in the opening) and oil was going around the seal, not under the dynamic lip.  That is my guess.  Please ask the engine builder if he agrees with that guess.
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: V63 on May 18, 2023, 01:22:22 PM
Is the engine black now? Are you going to paint it Cadillac engine blue or did I miss that mention?
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on May 18, 2023, 02:54:27 PM
The black is the primer it will be painted Bill Hirsch Cadillac blue.

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Caddy Wizard on May 18, 2023, 04:23:10 PM
Quote from: Bob Kielar on May 18, 2023, 02:54:27 PMThe black is the primer it will be painted Bill Hirsch Cadillac blue.

Regards,
Bob Kielar

Using black (primer or enamel) as a base coat for the Bill Hirsch Cadillac Blue is a good idea.  The Hirsch paint doesn't cover as well as you might expect, so having a dark color underneath can help for any areas where you don't get a good thick layer of the Hirsch Blue.
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on May 24, 2023, 07:54:36 PM
Waiting for paint to dry.

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Caddy Wizard on May 25, 2023, 01:58:39 PM
Looks good!  Bob, isn't that bracket for the power steering supposed to be black? (the bracket extending from the head bolt to the intake manifold bolt). That is what I remember...
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on May 25, 2023, 05:43:42 PM
I believe blue is correct. This is what I found in the authenticity manual.

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on May 25, 2023, 05:52:58 PM
Quote from: Caddy Wizard on May 18, 2023, 09:32:58 AMBob,


The extra lip/double lip on the brown seal doesn't ride on the crankshaft journal -- it helps fill the slot that the seal fits in.  Only the single lip on the brown seal rides on the crankshaft journal.

My guess about the leak is that the other rubber seal didn't fill the opening as well as this one does (it wasn't as tight of a fit in the opening) and oil was going around the seal, not under the dynamic lip.  That is my guess.  Please ask the engine builder if he agrees with that guess.

Here is his reply about the brown seal. He also stated it is a tighter fit.
I sealed the underside with right stuff on both halves, as I did with this seal. There seemed no leakage on underside. As the same on rope seal, I did NOT use sealer on rope seal.

Regards,
Bob Kielar

Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on June 19, 2023, 05:57:41 PM
Progress, engine installed today! 😎

Keep Cruzin,

Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Lexi on June 19, 2023, 06:46:42 PM
That is a beautiful sight. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on June 22, 2023, 03:39:25 PM
Engine installed and running sweet. The a/c is not connected yet due to the change over to R12. The lady in the background is the better half and the mechanic that rebuilt the engine. Not one of my best videos.

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar

https://youtube.com/shorts/vp2asun7Ezw?feature=share
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: 35-709 on June 22, 2023, 08:05:27 PM
Sounds great, looks beautiful.  Be very cautious about running it at idle a lot just to hear how sweet it sounds.  It can and will glaze the cylinder walls, and then you are removing the heads and rehoning the cylinders.  On second thought, since your engine overhauler seems to be "close", you probably don't need that advice at all.
 ;D   Geoff N. 
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on June 22, 2023, 09:03:55 PM
Thanks for the compliment. I will take all the advice people are willing to share.
What is considered long run time at idle? Any other information on breaking in a newly rebuilt engine. The mechanic said he ran it in on the test stand.

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Misfiring!!
Post by: 35-709 on June 22, 2023, 09:47:34 PM
" ---ran it in on the test stand."
Good deal.  A freshly overhauled engine should not be babied, run it, don't beat it, but run it. 
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 22, 2023, 03:41:50 PM
ANNIE'S HOME! ANNIE'S HOME! ANNIE'S HOME!

Annie is back home running as smooth as silk. The brakes are working properly. They had to bleed them because I repainted the booster to the correct silver cadmium color. The restoration shop has an A/C shop that still has R-12 they took the Cadillac there and he refused to work on it so back to the restoration shop.🤷�♂️ Since the a/c system was converted to R-134 before I owned the Cadillac and the difficulty to get the system clean enough for R-12 I mentioned Envirosafe Freon. The mechanic never used Envirosafe which he was a little skeptical of. He did some research on it and was willing to give it a try with Ester 100 oil. He only had to use 3lbs of Envirosafe. After the A/C is running a little while the vents in the roof are cold to the touch.🥶 They also did a front end alignment no other shops around here would do this because their machines would not fit. How they do their alignments is They place 250lbs on the passenger and driver side floor then they use a laser to align the car. To my surprise all the suspension and components where fine.😁Then they did a total inspection of the Cadillac and the only things that need to be done in the future are the rear leaf spring bushings are weather checked, and they will need to be replaced and the dimmer switch sticks. It feels sooo good to have her back home again, time to do a lot of Cruzin.😎

IT'S SHOW TIME!
Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Caddy Wizard on July 24, 2023, 02:01:27 PM
Bob, I am so happy for you.  Thrilling day, I am sure.

And for those who haven't seen Annie in person, it is as lovely a 55 FW as you will ever see.  And given that 55 FW is my favorite model, that is saying something...
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Lexi on July 24, 2023, 02:24:15 PM
Fantastic news Bob! Art is right in that it is thrilling when your car comes back after major surgery. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192 on July 24, 2023, 03:04:12 PM
If I remember correctly Bob you've had bad luck with Annie? Didn't she roll off a lift and bend the doors back, then the engine trouble? I'm pleased for you that you've got a sweet engine now. Phil
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 25, 2023, 08:30:00 AM
Quote from: PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192 on July 24, 2023, 03:04:12 PMIf I remember correctly Bob you've had bad luck with Annie? Didn't she roll off a lift and bend the doors back, then the engine trouble? I'm pleased for you that you've got a sweet engine now. Phil

Yeah Annie and I have had our challenges but that's true with any relationship. The good times far outweigh the bad.😁

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 25, 2023, 09:02:46 AM
Quote from: Caddy Wizard on July 24, 2023, 02:01:27 PMBob, I am so happy for you.  Thrilling day, I am sure.

And for those who haven't seen Annie in person, it is as lovely a 55 FW as you will ever see.  And given that 55 FW is my favorite model, that is saying something...
Art thank you for the kind words coming from you is very meaningful.

Regards,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: bcroe on July 25, 2023, 11:37:14 AM
Nice work, excellant results.  Bruce Roe
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Cadman-iac on July 25, 2023, 11:49:51 AM
  Hi Bob,

Glad to hear about, and see, that gorgeous car. I didn't know about the backstory on her, I'm sorry you went through all that to get it back on the road, but it appears that it was all worth the effort.

That enviro-safe freon you mentioned, what is the brand name, where can you find it, and what does it cost if you don't mind my asking?
My 56 has factory air, and I have (hopefully) enough R12 to charge it, (if and when I get that far), but probably not enough if there are any issues later.

Anyway, it's good to see another real car back on the road and killin' bugs. Enjoy!!

Rick
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 26, 2023, 08:40:08 AM
Quote from: Cadman-iac on July 25, 2023, 11:49:51 AMHi Bob,

Glad to hear about, and see, that gorgeous car. I didn't know about the backstory on her, I'm sorry you went through all that to get it back on the road, but it appears that it was all worth the effort.

That enviro-safe freon you mentioned, what is the brand name, where can you find it, and what does it cost if you don't mind my asking?
My 56 has factory air, and I have (hopefully) enough R12 to charge it, (if and when I get that far), but probably not enough if there are any issues later.

Anyway, it's good to see another real car back on the road and killin' bugs. Enjoy!!

Rick

Thanks for the compliments. The wife and I enjoy cruising around the country roads here in Wisconsin as you say killing bugs and participating in car shows. Here are two pictures of Enviro-Safe Freon. He used four cans to fill the entire system which I think equals 3-4 lbs. It is readily available at other websites and the cost was $15.75 per can plus shipping.

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar


















Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Cadman-iac on July 26, 2023, 11:04:18 AM
  Thanks for the information on this stuff. I'll check it out.
Looking at the can it looks like a replacement for R134A.
If your system hadn't been previously converted, would you have used this though?
Did you go with this because of how difficult it would be to insure that all the oil and residuals from the R134a are removed?
I know how hard it is to clean out one of these evaporator cores, I've done 2 so far, the other one is still stuck in my parts car. And I have yet to try clearing out the condenser. Not looking forward to that at all.

What did they use for your filter/dryer? Is there an original-looking replacement or was your original one rebuilt if that's even possible?

And what if anything was done with your compressor? It looks like it's original in your picture. Did they have to rebuild it or is that oil compatible with anything still in the compressor?
If everything goes according to plan, I'll be using an A6 compressor with the rest of my system being original.

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just looking for the best way to get mine working again.
So far as a replacement for R12 or R134a, this Envirosafe stuff sounds like a good option.

Thanks for indulging me, I do appreciate your help.

Rick
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Cadman-iac on July 26, 2023, 01:31:21 PM
  I found out that they do have a product that is supposed to replace R12, but reading some of the claims I have to wonder if it's really as good as they claim. If I read it right, a 4oz can will replace up to 3lbs of R12. They also claim that it will reduce moisture in the system, which they don't explain in any way.
 
It sounds like it's a great product if it can do all that's claimed.  I'll wait and reserve judgment until I see more proof.
I've got a while before I'm ready to charge my system anyway.
I hope your system keeps running smoothly with this stuff. It sounds like it's working out for you.
Thanks again for the information.

That really is a beautiful car. I hope mine will turn out half as nice as yours. Happy motoring!

Rick
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 26, 2023, 03:45:00 PM
Hello Rick,
To answer your questions yes I would have changed to enviro safe because r12 is getting quite pricey. It was recommend to me by a fellow member that has used it for years and he lives in Arizona. If my system was not converted to R-134 I would have used enviro with the mineral oil. But to my knowledge the mineral oil and sprang oil are not compatible. We did not what to chance that all would be removed and at $100.00 and hour for his labor it was decided to use enviro-safe. Nothing was done to the dryer. He flushed out the compressor and filled with ester 100 oil. I had to buy a used a5 compressor because my original main seal leaked and when I called the place in Florida it was $1,000.00 to repair now I heard they don't repair them. He used 4 8oz.cans to fill the empty system.

If you have a spare site glass or no someone who does I'm in the need of one.

Have patience I'm sure your Cadillac will turn out stunning.

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Cadman-iac on July 26, 2023, 07:05:02 PM
I'm not sure if I even have a complete system. None of the vehicles I've gotten parts from including my own had everything on them.  I have just one dryer, 2 condensers, and 3 evaporators, and I honestly don't know if there's a sight glass in the bunch. Where is it supposed to be located exactly? After the dryer I'm guessing, in the line going to the evaporator. Now you've got me wondering and I'm gonna have to go look for it.
I know that in later years it was incorporated into the dryer, and I've been considering using a newer style on mine, because I seriously doubt that the original one I have is going to be usable. It's been disconnected and left hanging from one of the lines for decades now.

Thanks again for all the information and your time.
Enjoy washing your car, and remember that the thicker the bugs, the wider the grin!!

Rick
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Bob Kielar on July 27, 2023, 10:00:27 AM
Hello Rick,

Here is a picture of the site glass to the left of the core support bottom line.

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Title: Re: Coming home from 2022 G.N. Our 55 Fleetwood Misfiring!!
Post by: Cadman-iac on July 27, 2023, 12:33:37 PM
  I looked at my 56 parts car and it does have a sight glass still on it. I also forgot to mention yesterday that I also have the original compressor on that car as well.
So between 3 vehicles, I've got 1 complete system, I think.
  Thanks for your help and the picture.

 Rick