Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: denise 20352 on April 03, 2006, 07:37:35 PM

Title: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: denise 20352 on April 03, 2006, 07:37:35 PM

 SEV = sport/economy vehicle.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/02/breaking-gm-previews-2008-cadillac-cts/#more-2228

-denise
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Randall A. McGrew CLC# 17963 on April 03, 2006, 08:53:41 PM
Oh yawn.  And I suspect it will cost $55,000+ ...
I hope by 2008 that there is a Cadillac if not a GM.
Im not sure why, though.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Ed Dougher on April 04, 2006, 04:37:32 PM
I can honestly say that I dont see a single thing that such a car would offer me that something like a Mazda 3 wouldnt... probably for 1/3 the price.  And I wouldnt have pangs of squeamishness about the Mazdas reliablity record.  

I wish theyd make a Cadillac!
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: densie on April 04, 2006, 06:15:05 PM

  The funny thing is, when I wrote to them and asked them if they could make just "one model" for mature people, I got the feeling that they had received that letter a lot.  Their answer was to try to sell me one of their sports cars.

  At least they havent put the Fleetwood name on one of those  things.  I would be deeply offended if I were to see that.  Theyve been kind enough to let the Fleetwood die without dragging its body through the mud.

-denise
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Pete B. #16534 on April 04, 2006, 07:34:14 PM
When I read this post it just reminded me why I practically never visit this board any more. I swear to god, if all of you dinosaurs ran Cadillac it would have become extinct years ago.

Whatever the car shown on 60 Minutes was, it gives every indication of being spectacular. You may not happen to like it, but that does not mean it wont be a terrific design. And may I remind you that it is exactly this Art & Science design concept that has resulted in dramatic sales increases, and that has finally put Cadillac back on the map again after being in the wilderness for years.

Do you really want to go back to shag carpeting, opera lights, and crushed volour upholstery? God help us all, and long live the "new" Cadillacs.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: denise on April 04, 2006, 07:58:15 PM

> Do you really want to go back to shag carpeting, opera lights, and crushed volour upholstery?

   That would be a definite improvement.

   The cars that theyre making now are just like the Datsun and Toyota economy cars that poor people drove when I was growing up.  Cheap, plain-looking, plastic.  They have even managed to make leather seats look like vinyl now.  You feel every bump in the road in these things, the seats are really uncomfortable, you cant move your legs around when they start to cramp, and you have to constantly fight to keep them on the road.  Honestly, would you want to take a long trip in one of these things?

   If they want to make little economy cars and people want to buy them, thats great, but they should at least make one model for mature people who want a luxury car, not an economy car or truck.

-denise
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Randall A. McGrew CLC# 17963 on April 04, 2006, 08:25:10 PM
In many ways this is becoming a debate based upon age.  The younger members love it, the older dont, by and large, with some crossing lines.  Nothing new in that.  The majority of Americans are becoming older Americans.  Our population is not growing through birth but immigration. If you like sporty, high technologically sophisticated cars with a sharp, tech look, then you will probably like the new Cadillacs.  They are not much in the way of competition for BMW but they are good cars.
 
And most Americans are not interested in such things. They want the best vehicle to haul around the family, go to Home Depot, and look big and expensive...enter the SUV and trucks.

Welcome to Dinosaur status...Trolls because you are over 35.  I cannot tell you how many times young people have called me that because I am older. Personally I could care less.  But it seems kind of puerille to not partake in the CLC forum because you do not agree on an automobile.  I mean, its not like a political issue.
But do as you please...it is still a free country, barely.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Pete B. #16534 on April 04, 2006, 08:51:27 PM
Puerile? Maybe, but the tendency for so many on this board to trash the new generation Cadillacs does get annoying after a while, especially when there are other Cadillac enthusiast sites where the members are a little more open minded.

By the way, Im very much a troll myself, having just turned 58, and although I think the older Cadillacs are spectacular, I also think the Art & Science ones are equally so, but in different ways, and for different reasons.

My point is simply that it IS possible to appreciate and respect the merits of both, and to respect and admire Cadillac for taking the risks it has.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Randall A. McGrew CLC# 17963 on April 04, 2006, 08:58:02 PM
You know...I knew I was sticking my foot in my mouth when I wrote that!! LOL
Of course you are right.  We should be able to appreciate both, the old and the new.  The criticism is justly deserved, however, when you consider things like comfort, and usability for many of us.

And then there are the criticism of technology, like the HT4100...I mean really.  The NorthStar is not free of such criticism either given the enormity of effort and cost to repair even simple problems on the engine.  But it is a strong, and efficient engine.

Most of the time we just like to complain.  I can only speak for my self when I say this, as I could not afford a modern Cadillac due to its maintenance requirements and sophistication.  It simply is too costly.  Running an older car that is far less sophisticated is generally cheaper and at least I can enjoy the style.  

I had the same reaction on another website with all the political talk and eventually just stopped going in much. So I can certainly empathize with your frustration.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Bruce Reynolds # 18992 on April 05, 2006, 04:03:12 AM
Well, I appreciate anything that keeps me dry in the rain, warm in the Winter, and cool in the Summer.

And, if it has a Cadillac name on it beautiful, but if it doesnt, well and good.

I can recall looking into showrooms and seeing the new models on anything, and there were always the few that didnt like what they saw, and a lot that did.

But, they still sold a lot of cars, so someone must have liked what they saw, were it a Cadillac, Nash, Ford, or VW.

Would have loved to be a fly on the wall when the 59s were introduces, then the 60s, Cadillacs, that it, just to hear the remarks.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   If people dont like what is offered for sale, then they tend to go elsewhere, unless they are "Brand Brainwashed"
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: denise 20352 on April 05, 2006, 06:35:11 AM

  There is nowhere else to go.

  Its frustrating.  I love driving, but there isnt one new car out there that I could buy and get any driving pleasure out of.  I have to drive an older car, and I wont be able to work on them much longer.

  I grew up lusting after these big luxury cars, but the minute I got my drivers license, they started downsizing and making them less comfortable, and they have continued to go in that direction for nearly 30 years.  How bad is it going to get?  Will we someday have an electric Datsun Honey Bee with a Cadillac logo?  Did the Cimarron really happen, or was that a nightmare?  Or both?

   Would have to agree that most people buy whatever is practical, but they dont seem to feel right about it.  Every now and then, someone I know will show me their new car, and I guess they see the expression on my face, because they immediately start making excuses for it.  "It gets really good mileage", or "My bird cage fits in the back."  The cars are so ugly and stupid-looking, the same cars that we used to make fun of when I was young, and now everyone is buying them, but theyre ashamed of them.  I may be disgusted with carmakers, but at least I dont deliberately go out and spend a lot of money for something that Im going to be ashamed to own.   I tried a  top of the line American car, and was disgusted with it...thats really not as much my fault as most people seem to think.

   Dinosaur, I may be, but when I was young, there were still cars that mature and elderly people loved.  They had a ride that didnt jostle you around, and they were easy to steer.  If they can sell people padded trucks that get 12 mpg, why cant they make one of these?  The technology now exists to make a car that would get 17/25 and be easy to drive, so I dont understand why they dont do that.  Just one model would be fine.   People who are older and have injuries are miserable driving sports cars and trucks.

   Empathy...hmm...Imagine having to drive sitting on a board, with a tiny steering wheel and no power steering...thats what the new cars are like to me.  Despite that people seemed to enjoy sitting on boards, wouldnt you want to see one model for people like you who wanted a car with a seat in it?

-denise
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Matt Harwood on April 05, 2006, 08:32:15 AM
My 68 year-old father loves his CTS ESPECIALLY for its sporty handling and lively performance. Hes driven old-school Cadillacs and Lincolns all his life (from a 66 convertible DeVille, to a 76 Eldorado convertible to an 86 Brougham to a series of Lincoln Town Cars), and this is by far his favorite car. He thought his favorites were (obviously) the floaty old body-on-frame luxury cars. When he drove the CTS, he realized how much he was missing and will never go back.

I too, like Pete B., grow weary of the near-constant complaining about how any vehicle with something other than sponges for springs is unfit for public consumption. I understand one individual has health problems that make a firm-riding car uncomfortable, but I respectfully suggest that some of you are in the vast minority as far as that is concerned. Im sorry there arent any new cars that are your cup of tea for whatever reason, but I think the success of the new Cadillac lines suggest that there are a lot of people out there who want what theyre building today and have no interest in the "bad old days." Look at the declining sales of the Lincoln Town Car, the last of a dying breed. Cadillac sold far more CTS models than Lincoln did Town Cars. Heck, Cadillac sold more TRUCKS than Lincoln did Town Cars.

As far as ride, I think the CTS rides wonderfully. As someone who actually knows what a firm-riding sports car feels like, the CTS is about as far from that as I can imagine. Relative to many performance cars, it rides like a dream and feels notably more solid and well cushioned than even, say, my Mazda station wagon. The CTS feels like a "luxury" ride to me and is infinitely more comfortable than any truck or sports car could ever hope to be.

Sorry if I sound harsh--it isnt intentional. But Cadillac (and Buick) need to do something to drive their median buyer age down so that their future customers dont keep dying on them. Im in the fat part of their target demographic (Im a 36 year-old business owner), and Id never consider buying a mushy Town Car type vehicle, and I also owned a 76 Eldorado convertible for more than a decade and adored it. Perhaps the definition of luxury has changed?

PS: If people are upset that you make a face when you see their new cars, perhaps you should work harder at keeping your opinions to yourself and developing a better poker face. Your opinion is yours alone--expecting everyone else to share it is a problem. Remember that the wise man smiles at the fool.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: denise on April 05, 2006, 01:03:27 PM

> Look at the declining sales of the Lincoln Town Car, the last of a dying breed.

   The Town Car breed is already dead.  Ford killed it.  Its now the same car as that crappy Marquis that I have, which is probably why their sales are off.

   Im going to ignore the personal comments that you made.  Im always happy to insult cars, but I try not to insult people.

-denise
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Matt Harwood on April 05, 2006, 02:25:48 PM
:)
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Pete B. #16534 on April 05, 2006, 08:08:58 PM
In a way, Cadillac is stuck between a rock and a hard place. The "mature" driver of today is only getting more, well - mature, which does not bode well for future sales, however loyal they may be.

In order to retain the mature driver of tomorrow, Cadillac has to nail the younger driver of today, and make the cars so good that they wont want to defect down the road as they get older. No easy task to be sure, but I thinks thats whats beginning to happen.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Bruce Reynolds # 18992 on April 05, 2006, 08:25:59 PM
Gday Matt,

But, you have to remember that the person that congratulates a person on their choice of purchase, no matter what it is, has subconciously given the buyer that is showing it off, another rung up the ladder of pleasingability.

It is always a nice feeling knowing that your purchase, and the pleasure it brings, wasnt done just for oneself.   It is an "ego" thing.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: denise on April 06, 2006, 02:49:25 PM

  It wont.

  First of all, I am only 42.  I have wanted a full-sized luxury car for the last 25 years, and I will want one for the next 40 years, or as long as I live.  If Cadillac made one, I would get rid of my Chrysler and trade the Mercubox in one one, and I can afford to buy many more of them.  They have chosen to pass me up as a customer, and theyre missing sales.  How many kids who want a sporty, Japanese-looking Cadillac, have the money to buy one?  How many will still want sporty, Japanese-looking cars after they have grown up?  How many of them would just save $50k and buy a Japanese car, instead of Cadillacs copy?

  It seems that Cadillacs focus is on selling cars overseas, which is really all they have left, now that they have alienated Americans over 40...their former customer base.

-denise
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: denise on April 06, 2006, 02:53:56 PM

   That would explain why people start making excuses for their cars after I see them.  Maybe theyre accustomed to people looking at them and saying, "Oh yes, thats a nice car", to spare their feelings, and when I dont say anything, they have to stop and think.

   I cant do it, though.  I guess Ive never forgotten the story of The Emporers New Clothes.  We have too many naked emporers running around.

-denise
Title: The Lesson of Oldsmobile
Post by: denise on April 06, 2006, 02:58:01 PM

   And lets dont forget the Lesson of Oldsmobile.  Remember when Olds changed their focus to making smaller, crappier cars?  Their slogan was, "This is not your fathers Oldsmobile".

   Whats wrong with that?  Your father loved his Oldsmobile, and now he cant get one anymore, so hes keeping his old one.  He sure isnt going to buy the little crappy ones that were made for his kids.  Say goodbye to Olds.

-denise
Title: Everyone else chimed in, so why dont I? :)
Post by: Bill Gauch on April 06, 2006, 04:38:38 PM
Wow, apparently, new vs. old is one of the most hot-button issues here. Ive only been actively posting here for the last 6 months or so, and this is one of the hottest debates I have seen. My personal take on the issue is this:

New cars are just that... "New". In order to have old cars for the future generation to collect, they need to have shinny new objects of their affections. That being said, I have often pondered what the future 32 Ford, 57 Chevy, 64.5 Mustang, etc. is going to be. I cant imagine anyone longing for that old Mercury Sable or Honda Civic. Heck, I cant even see anyone thinking back on granddads old 2006 CTS-V, even though I would love to own (not pay for or insure) one of those. I think one of the biggest reasons that car makers dont make cars for older people anymore is that they dont tend to buy many cars once they reach the state of "old". Generally, older people buy that last daily driver and put 12 miles on it per week (192 years until you hit 120000 miles). My parents lived next door to a woman who bought a late 80s Caddy fully loaded. It was finally sold in late 05 in mint condition when she was forced to stay in Florida due to health problems.

To conclude... I think that new low-end hi-po (really more like med-po) cars are made for recent college grads. New VWs are made for 16 year old girls with parents who have too much money. New sedans and midrange cars are made for the working stiff after they sell their low-end car and need a 4-door for family weekend road trips. High-dollar cars are for people who have just enough money to afford one, but want the world to think they have enough money to buy a train but decided that the car was slightly more practical. Finally, trucks (NOTE: Not SUVs. SUVs fall in the last category.) are for people who want to spend the least amount of money to get something to take the trash to the dump, bring home the groceries, haul construction debris out and home-repair stuff in, and if there just happens to be any money left at the end of the month, then maybe, just maybe they can use it to bring home those parts they picked up at the junkyard, swap meet, or freight pickup point.
Title: P.S. - for Denise
Post by: Bill Gauch on April 06, 2006, 04:43:45 PM
Denise, have you ever considered buying a "hot rod"? Im talking about one of those high end builds with the air bag shocks and nice soft tires. You could probably get a really nice ride in one of those and they would certainly be maintainable. A lot of times, you can pick one up for the price of a new mid-high priced car. If it were one of those insanly lowered dealies, it would probably not roll much in the turns either. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Pete B. #16534 on April 06, 2006, 06:19:10 PM
It IS. It is amazing to me how you consistently choose to miss the facts of life: Denise, with all due respect, Cadillac may no longer be making YOUR kind of luxury car, but it sure is making exactly that for a lot of other people, and if in fact Cadillac has chosen to "pass you up", you can bet they are making it up in sales to the customer base it has decided it does want.

For the life of me, I cant begin to see what looks Japanese about the new models, and as far as claiming that sales overseas being all they have left, how do you explain that it is in THIS country that its sales have been increasingly so dramatically in recent years?

My parents had Cadillac throughout the sixties, seventies, and eighties, fabulous cars - all of them, and Im crazy about my 90 Fleetwood Coupe, but a neighbor just bought an 06 STS. It looks, rides, and handles like a zillion dollars, and I am THIS close to getting one myself. What else can I say......?
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Ed Dougher on April 06, 2006, 06:58:59 PM
And may I remind you that it was the years and years of watering the product down for the masses that eventually left it with none of its former cache or exclusiveness.  

Short term sales increases are not necessarily best for the companys long-term interest.  

They can do better than a Maxima knockoff with and egg-crate grille.
Title: Re: The Lesson of Oldsmobile
Post by: Rhino 21150 on April 06, 2006, 10:39:01 PM
I have the Oldsmobile my dad never liked, a 1976 Delta Royale. "Mothership". My dad preferred them small from the get go. His Oldsmobile was the Cutlass Cierra w/180hp quad four. He loved it! I love my Delta, blown tranny and all.
Now my dad isnt allowed to drive the Olds, so he sold it. Got another GM car, a Subaru Legacy wagon! Oh, and his 1940 5219. Dad is just old enough to pick on for his sloppy driving, too fast and too erratic. I dread getting there.
Yes, there is a market for the old style "lead sled". The carmakers, right or wrong, dont think it is big enough, the market, not the car. Tis a shame, there are quite a bunch of aging boomers that grew into the things.
Title: Re: P.S. - for Denise
Post by: denise 20352 on April 07, 2006, 06:18:44 AM

  Im not sure I know what you mean.  Can you give me an example, model and year?

thanks

-d
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: denise 20352 on April 07, 2006, 06:56:47 AM

  Maybe Im the only one in the world who thinks that they look like Japanese cars.  To tell you the truth, I dont even know why I care.   New cars are never going to be roomy and comfortable again, any more than airline seats will, and Ill spend the rest of my life working in a tiny plastic cubicle.

  Enjoy your DTS, SRS, CRX, or whatever it was that you said you were going to buy.  I have trouble remembering the names of the new cars.

-denise
Title: Re: P.S. - for Denise
Post by: Bill Gauch on April 07, 2006, 07:19:20 AM
Actually, anything made between 1900 and 1970 seems to be fair game as hot rod material. You can get all sorts of cars from the 30s-50s that have been fully modernized with modern suspension, braking and steering systems. Most anything that has been fitted with an aftermarket "Mustang II" type IFS can be upgraded to use air bags. With the right amount of persuasion and welding, you can make pretty much anything drive like a big cushy med-sled Caddy. If you buy it that way to start with, so much the better.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Bill Gauch on April 07, 2006, 07:24:39 AM
You can say that you will buy one for me too! Yeah... Yeah, that will prove to everyone just how much you like modern Caddys. Cmon... Please?  :)
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397 on April 07, 2006, 10:00:00 AM
Whether we like the cars that Cadillac is currently producing or not (I personally do), US sales have increased significantly in the past few years and continue to increase yearly leading several publications to call the Division the best thing going for GM. Having recently passed Mercedes-Benz, the marque trails only BMW and Lexus in US luxury vehicle sales. Cadillac sales in Europe remain as abysmal as they have historically been and I wouldnt look to the new Saabillac to change that at all.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: STDog on April 07, 2006, 10:44:54 AM
Quote from: Pete B. #16534My point is simply that it IS possible to appreciate and respect the merits of both, and to respect and admire Cadillac for taking the risks it has.

But wouldnt it be nice to get a reall full sized sedan. One that seats 6 adults (not 5) and Has room to actully put stuff in the trunk?

Maybe Im, skewed, or warped. But at 16 in the spring,I fell for a 69 SDV. Broke it that fall, and have been after one since. Finally  found a 70 Coupe I liked 6 years ago, when I finally had a real job that paid enough to start on one. At 34, I still like the old Cadillacs, and have for 20 years. My 12 year old son is well his way too.

Yeah,  The latest stuff is at least a step in the right directon. Finally A car that doesnt look like everything else. But still a long way to go. And a sporty performer is great. The CTS/XLR (and teh V series) are good moves.

Now, how about a 6 passenger car as a sedan and a convertible (like the 60s deVilles) with the V series engines. Make it look longer than it is, and wide enough for 3 real adults. Make the trunk big enough for kids bicycle with the lid closed.  Then with all the ride control stuff make an option for "luxo-barge"/ float, along with they others.
Title: Re: Everyone else chimed in, so why dont I? :)
Post by: denise on April 07, 2006, 11:29:56 AM

  Thatll be the day, when I can afford a truckload of groceries!  I just spent $200 and didnt even fill the trunk of the car.

-d
Title: Re: P.S. - for Denise
Post by: denise on April 07, 2006, 11:57:32 AM

  I have a 76 Chrysler New Yorker as my daily car, and I really like it.  The problem is, I dont know how long I will be able to maintain it.  I have a permanent injury from a shoulder belt, and doing anything strenuous means days or weeks of agony.  Im  just finishing an engine job now, but its killing me.  Im determined to finish it, but it might turn out to be the last one that Im able to do.

  I also have a 76 Cadillac hearse, which is fairly comfortable and easy to drive, and a 92 Chevy truck, in addition to the 2004 Mercubox that I dont drive.  The hearse also needs the engine done, but I dont know if Ill be able to or not.  Maybe after a long rest.

  After the accident, I was in so much pain that I never expected to be able to work on cars again, so I bought a new one.  I hated the car, and I got so depressed over abandoning my projects that I had to take them up again, despite everything.  I built a little motorized crane to lift things for me, and I use cheater bars and long-handled wrenches wherever possible.

  A picture of Mr. Crane:

  http://www.americansoapbox.org/mrcrane/motors2.jpg

  I had already started letting people have parts from my 78 Deville, so I got the New Yorker.  It was a really nice deal, $2000, 58k original miles, and was in excellent mechanical condition, until someone dropped a handful of junk hardware into the carburetor.  Then since the pistons had to come out anyway, I raised the compression to 10.5:1 and put a Commando cam in it.  Then I decided that I needed a tach, and an oil pressure gauge, and since my speedometer wasnt working, I decided to do a digital dash project.  See how these things get started?

   These are pictures of my Chrysler.  

   http://www.americansoapbox.org/pics/76ny/

   The fact that someone can look at cars like this one, a Lincoln, Eldo, or Fleetwood and then tell me that new cars are attractive and luxurious, and dont look Japanese, just tells me that these things are totally subjective.  ;)

   My guess is that Ill rest up until Ive forgotten how painful it is to do this stuff, then Ill tackle the engine in the hearse, but sooner or later, Ill have so much arthritis in my system that I wont be able to do anything.  Maybe I can find a good mechanic, or a so-so mechanic who doesnt mind an old lady telling him how to fix cars.  ;)

   Whats kind of annoying is that buying a new car isnt an option.  There was a time when the showrooms were full of cars that I would have loved to have had, but now that I can actually afford one, there isnt anything for me.


-denise
Title: Re: P.S. - for Denise
Post by: STDog on April 07, 2006, 01:54:40 PM
Quote from: deniseMy guess is that Ill rest up until Ive forgotten how painful it is to do this stuff, then Ill tackle the engine in the hearse, but sooner or later, Ill have so much arthritis in my system that I wont be able to do anything.  Maybe I can find a good mechanic, or a so-so mechanic who doesnt mind an old lady telling him how to fix cars.  ;)

If you were closer, Id be happy to help out :)
My 472 rebuild is still going after 8 month of daily driving. I guess I did something right.
Too bad youre so far from Mississippi :(
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: George UK on April 07, 2006, 04:43:08 PM
I love being a dinosaur. I love my 59 Cad, and I love my Elvis records.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Ed Dougher on April 07, 2006, 05:32:35 PM
Is it?  Im 42.  I used to be one of those guys who read Car and Driver from cover to cover every month.  I wanted a Bimmer.  As a poor college student, I desperately wanted something that was "competent" on the skidpad, according to Car and Driver.

Now that Ive had a wide variety of cars, both new and used (and old), experience has taught me some things.

Perhaps some of the biggest revelations came when I used to help a friend who owned a car lot drive his new acquisitions home from the auction.  At the time I was using a 77 Coupe de Ville as a daily driver, so thats what I was used to driving.  To say that its eye-opening to drive a Chevy Beretta home from the auction and then
get back in your Cadillac would be the understatement of the century!!!

I still have a similar revelation on the rare occassion that my Mazda is in the shop and I need to drive my 79 Caddy for a day!

Theres just no comparison.  A real car is a real car.
 
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: G. Brown on April 07, 2006, 05:35:10 PM
Reliability? MAZDA???? Japenese F*rd. My 138,ooo mile SDV was much more reliable than the almost new 98 Mazda 666 I owned.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Ed Dougher on April 07, 2006, 05:47:20 PM
Lost in this discussion seems to be the fact that Cadillacs recent sales increase comes with its return to RWD in the newer models driving that sales increase.

Lost in this discussion seems to be the fact that the truck market has boomed in recent years as people have rejected the little plastic boxes called cars these days, in search of some real vehicles.

Lost in this discussion seems to be the fact that the resurrection of Chryslers image is being driven by a relatively big, meaty, RWD 300 model not seen since around 1970, and its various spin-offs like the Charger, not to mention the hoopla surrounding the Challenger.

Lost in this discussion seems to be the excitement Ford brought to the Mustang by redesigning it to be much more closely aligned with its roots.  In other words, they built a MUSTANG, the way Cadillac needs to build a CADILLAC!

And a Cadillac with an anemic engine and crushed velour is no more a CADILLAC than a 74 Mustang II is a MUSTANG.  I dont know how you came to that conclusion.
Title: Re: P.S. - for Denise
Post by: denise on April 07, 2006, 06:13:34 PM

   Were sort of far from anything here.  ;)

   I actually have a 472, almost ready to go.  I removed it from the stand because of the Chrysler, but Ill be putting it back on now.  Ive only been working on it for two years!

-denise
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: denise on April 07, 2006, 06:23:02 PM

  The weak engine is very easy to fix.  Seats dont have to be crushed velour.  Ill take leather or cloth seats, as long as they have pillows on the top.

  The Mustang resurrection does look sharp, I agree.

  Have you driven the Chrysler 300?

-d
Title: Re: P.S. - for Denise
Post by: Rhino 21150 on April 08, 2006, 10:14:33 PM
Fentanyl patches.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Rhino 21150 on April 08, 2006, 10:21:28 PM
Dinosaurs rule! Or, did. Anyway, I love my 38, although it is tight with five. For sheer gall I drive the (really cheap to own) 76 Delta. Six in style! Pigosaurus!
Title: Re: P.S. - for Denise
Post by: denise on April 10, 2006, 11:46:54 AM

  They work better than time-release pills?
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: denise 20352 on April 10, 2006, 11:50:51 AM

  Delta 88, or 99?  I love those cars.  When I was in high school, we had a 1974 88 that had cloth seats.  The last time I saw the car was in the 80s, and they were still immaculate.  I think the car was finally eaten up by rust, after my brother took it to Chicago.  What a sad ending for such a great car.

-denise
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Ed Dougher on April 10, 2006, 12:11:20 PM
The point I was trying to make is that in each of those examples, success came in the form of a more traditional, V-8 powered, RWD car.  But I guess "dinosaurs" are extinct.  Imagine that!
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Rhino 21150 on April 10, 2006, 06:09:52 PM
Delta Royale (88 four door hardtop) with Burgundy crushed velour interior in pristine condition. One small spot of white paint I havent tried to remove, Goof-Off will work next time I buy some.
No rust, but all in Redneck gray (urethane primer). My body guy cant work on rusty cars anymore, left dogleg needs replacing, I have part, thats the only rust. Tranny blown, will replace with TH-400 (has 375) when "Bob the Cadillac junky" (not me) pulls one out. Exhaust just starting to sound cool (leaks). 350-R, hu-freakin-mongous four barrel.
Any car predating OBD-II no longer gets emission tests! 160hp my foot! 350-350-350 coming right up. Sitting under cover until July or thereabouts.
Title: Trunk Load of Groceries
Post by: Sue 5125 on April 10, 2006, 08:43:21 PM
Quote from: deniseThatll be the day, when I can afford a truckload of groceries!  I just spent $200 and didnt even fill the trunk of the car. -d

Well if you drive an XLR then $200 will buy you a trunk load of groceries.

I stopped to fill the 44 gal tank in my Suburban on the way home from work today and the pump stopped just shy of $100.  It gets about 14 mpg hwy on a good day with the wind at my back.

I feel no guilt driving my luxurious gas hog; I agree with Denise there are no new cars out there right now that I would choose to drive.  With the higher gas prices, I stretch my gas budget by staying at the office and skipping lunch a couple days a week.  I refuse to drive a small tin box.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: denise on April 11, 2006, 01:18:04 PM

  Arizona still emission tests 40-year-old cars.  Im trying to imagine, back in 1970, seeing a 1930 Chevrolet puckety-pucking up to the emissions testing station.  It would have been ridiculous.  It IS ridiculous.

-denise
Title: Re: Trunk Load of Groceries
Post by: denise on April 11, 2006, 01:20:50 PM

  We should form a PAC!

  I dont even know what an XLR is, but it sounds tiny.  ;)



-denise
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Dave Leger - CLC#19256 on April 11, 2006, 02:03:04 PM
When I got my 47 to Denver, I was told I didnt need an emissions test since it was pre-58.  I took it from that that 1958 - 1981 vehicles require the stationary emissions inspection (1982 up require dynanometer testing).  I know I used to have to take my 67 Imperial in every year for its test.
Title: Have faith in Cadillac...
Post by: Chris Short CLC 18814 on April 12, 2006, 05:55:35 AM
Hello,
     Id just like to say that yes many people dont agree with cadillacs new direction.  But theyre learning.  Theyre makeing a clean break from a old mold that wasnt working.  I truely beleive that Cadillac is going to get nothing but better from here on out..  Look at the new Escalade that just came out...  I couldnt believe my eyes, CHROME.  They are finaly putting chrome back on cars.  Cadillac cars finaly make a statement again.  I think the new Escalade is awesome.  And my next car is going to be the new STS.  I think its just a matter of time before they start to glam-up the cars also.  Hey I miss the super comfortable seats, the beautiful exterior and interior colors, the easy steering, and the true grace that cadillac always had...  But I think the best is yet to come.  All the qualities that we are missing so much Im sure will pop up with a new, modern, cutting egde twist.  We just need to give Caddy some time.....  Untill then we have all are vintage cadillacs to get us through.  Theres my point of view from a 25 year old.

Chris Short
96 eldo, 89 Brougham, 85 Eldo, 76 Eldo convert, 68 DeVille convert.
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Rhino 21150 on April 12, 2006, 02:10:38 PM
The OBD-II rule is now in effect in North Carolina. I havent heard about any other states. Check your states DMV website. Google can find it for you.
Title: Re: Have faith in Cadillac...
Post by: Fred Garfield 22310 on April 12, 2006, 03:08:35 PM
Well said, Chris. In a sense, ever since the 1980s it was impossible for Cadillac to do anything but improve. Thats when they insulted the car-buying public with the Cimarron which was nothing but a tinny, gussied up clone of the Cavalier. In an ideal automotive world, Cadillac would go back to what they had in 1968 and update that with the best in subsequent technological improvements, but dont hold your breath.
Title: Write to them
Post by: denise on April 12, 2006, 04:24:49 PM

   Maybe you would think that Cadillac gets tons of letters and yours wouldnt count, but Im sure that they dont.  My letter was answered by a human being, the next day, and that tells me that theyre not totally swamped with mail.  While I wasnt impressed with their answer, trying to sell me another car, I was at least glad to know that they had heard my message and knew what I wanted in a car.  Write to them.  They have a contact link on their webpage.

-denise
Title: Old vs. New, somewhere in between
Post by: Bill Burton #19057 on April 12, 2006, 09:10:31 PM
Hi everyone.  Ive missed checking this site for a few days and am just getting caught up.  This discussion has gone on for a while, and has been very interesting to read through.  My take is a bit different, because of my personal situation.  I have just sold Casper my white 66 Fleetwood 60 Special.  I loved the car but we now live in a mobile home park and there simply wasnt space for it anywhere.  I let go of my 88 SDV a few months ago for the same reasons.  I am, however, keeping the 97 DeVille dElegance and now have it in being gone through by a Cadillac dealer that I trust.  The total cost to bring it up to where I want it will be a bit over $6,000.  I justify it because I cant possibly go out and pay what it would cost to buy a like model much newer than what I have now, and the car is basically one where the drivetrain is still strong.  There are a lot of folks who have situations that vary in specifics, but are similar.  We love the old, but must have a tried and true vehicle to get from here to there.  This car will do that and do it in style and comfort.  It isnt as old as some, or as new as others, but it keeps my old, bad, back from hurting too much.  I appreciate the new cars, but wont go out and buy one with what I have that is so good.  By the way, I was surprised to find out that the 97 is LIGHTER than the 2001 Mustang convertible and Nissan Altima that we also have.  Wheel bases are all with an inch of each other.  The only difference in dimensions came with body measurements.  How about that?  Caddies arent necessarily as heavy as a lot of folks think!  Plus, it gets better gas mileaage than either one as well.  When I get it back it will look new, drive super, and be a pleasure to drive.  Any comments?  
Title: Go for it.
Post by: Bruce Reynolds # 18992 on April 12, 2006, 09:34:35 PM
Gday Bill,

All I can say is I believe you have done the right thing.

Sometimes it is better to stiock with something you know, and like, that buy something that is available, but not really what one wants.

Re-powering an "old shape" and making it reliable, you will end up with a pleasing product, especially with the "shape" of the new offerings.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
Title: Re: Go for it-More
Post by: Bill Burton #19057 on April 13, 2006, 01:08:36 AM
One development I am seeing is that use of old cars to make a specific statement in a context that is completely foreign to the car itself.  I know, old cars have been used as background in ads and stories for almost as long as there has been story telling and ads, but there seems to be more context now than before.  The series of Cadillac ads where they started with the older ones and morphed into the newer models had a meaning in it that was much more than just an ad.  That added emphasis is what Im talking about.  With the advent of rebuilders on TV with their multihundredthousand dollar cars being built, there is an awareness of cars as a work of art that supercedes just the vehicle itself.  Im also remembering the convertibles that were used in Dukes of Hazard and driven by Ella Fitzgerald in the TV program about Angels.  Those cars made a contextual statement that took the scene out of the normal and put it into a different and higher level of impact.  The concept Im trying to talk about perhaps can be brought more clearly into focus by someone else, but I am aware of how cars, specifically old in style, if not in under the skin technology, are becoming statements and distinctly have impact in their use.  Does any of this make any sense to anyone?
Title: Re: Go for it-More
Post by: Fred Garfield 22310 on April 13, 2006, 04:07:04 AM
It makes perfect sense to me, Bill. Like many people, I love to romanticize past eras, elevating them to mythic stature. As I type this, Im wearing a 1938 Bulova. On the wall above my desk is an 1806 Napoleonic saber. And when I jump into that Cadillac and head out on the freeway, its 1959 again. Suddenly, life seems more full-blooded and free-natured, everything has an edgy feel to it and yet its like being in a dream.
Title: Re: Write to them
Post by: Fred Garfield 22310 on April 13, 2006, 04:19:12 AM
That is a splendid idea, denise. Thankyou and I will.
Title: Re: Old vs. New, somewhere in between
Post by: denise 20352 on April 13, 2006, 11:04:16 AM

  I hate to be a Negative Nancy(tm), but what happens when youre six miles outside of Boody, Illinois and it develops an electrical problem that shuts the engine down?  I can hear it now,

  "That aint a tractor, is it?  All we got is tractor parts."

  That was the reason that I didnt get a five-year-old low-mileage car after my accident.  You have no warranty, and since no one else knows how to fix it, youre at the mercy of the dealer.  I went through this with my 87 Buick...$700 at the dealer because a bad plug wire shorted out something, then another $700 three months later because something else in the electrical system blew up.  With that money wasted, I had a car that I couldnt trust to go around the block, so I ended up selling it for $400.  Think of how much gas I could have put in a 66 Cadillac for that money!

-denise
Title: Re: Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac
Post by: Ed Dougher on April 13, 2006, 12:28:32 PM
North Carolina varies depending upon the county in which you live.  Pre-1996 vehicles, for example, do not require emissions inspections in Johnston County, where I live.
Title: Re: Go for it-More
Post by: Ed Dougher on April 13, 2006, 12:36:04 PM
That was Della Reese, not Ella Fitzgerald.  Big difference.

Although, since I own a gold 67 De Ville convertible, I like Dellas song that goes, "All I need is a solid gold Cadillac".
Title: Re: Go for it-More
Post by: Ed Dougher on April 13, 2006, 12:42:29 PM
To me, I cant imagine anyone singing about a CTS.  People dont write songs about little red Chevettes.
Title: Re: Go for it-More
Post by: Rhino 21150 on April 13, 2006, 04:54:07 PM
They DO write songs about little red Chevettes! It was hysterical. I cant remember a single phrase from it. It was even funnier because I had one!
Title: Who sang that song?
Post by: Bill Burton #19057 on April 13, 2006, 09:02:37 PM
Youre right and Im mortified that I made that mistake.  I wish I could remember the name of the movie, because I remember that it was a great one.  She was singing it in the aisle of the bus on the way from one gig to another.  Great song and movie when a song was singable, didnt insult people and could be remembered for its tune not its number of swear words.
Title: Re: Old vs. New, somewhere in between
Post by: Bill Gauch on April 14, 2006, 08:47:35 AM
Do you really think 3 gallons of gas would take your 66 that far? :)
Title: Re: What is the CLC about?
Post by: Randall A. McGrew CLC# 17963 on April 14, 2006, 09:02:44 AM
Heck no...that was never the intent of those cars. Had it been, they would have had better mileage.  Why bother comparing them?
A 1966 Cadillac Series 60 Special was a luxury car for people who could afford the power and luxury.  There was no major point at gas mileage.  If you wanted good mileage, buy a Volkswagen!  

I fail to see the point here.

The whole focus of the new cars is impact protection, fuel mileage and creature comforts as well as an across the board sportiness, even in SUXs available to everyone. (sounds socialistic, doesnt it?)
 
Where the top of the line once had Wonderbar radio and foot controls, the new have a combo unit of navigations/DVD/CD with steering wheel controls or even voice commands!

Kind of like comparing a Brass era Cadillac with a 1958 Fleetwood Special, wouldnt you say?

I thought the whole point of the CLC was the enjoyment, preservation, restoration and research of, the Cadillacs of the past. That is why some dinosaurs here like their old cars.
That is the point of the club.  Recently we have added newer Cadillacs to enjoy.  That is great!  But it should not supplant the whole purpose of the club, unless, of course, the old goals are outmoded and should be set aside for the new.  That may be a very real change in the works as the membership seems increasingly less interested in the old cars.  We have lost some good members like Derek Sherwood because he, in part, saw no purpose and had no interest in, older Cadillacs (pre-1970).
Something to consider.

Change is universal.
Title: Re: What is the CLC about?
Post by: denise 20352 on April 14, 2006, 11:53:25 AM

  I would be perfectly happy to see the price of gas go up to $10 a gallon.  The higher it goes up, the fewer cars there are on the road.  Right now, with gas at $2.75, I can get to work in half the time it took when gas was $2.  An extra 20-30 minutes of free time a day, and a more pleasant drive, is well worth it.  Interesting it is, to see how few people really need to go somewhere at 8am.

-denise
Title: Re: Who sang that song?
Post by: Rhino 21150 on April 14, 2006, 06:58:13 PM
Little Red Corvette was written by Prince (yeah, that IS his real name) and it is found on the album "1999". Little Red Chevette was a parody of that song done by a rock-a-billy band that I have forgotten.