'68 Eldorado door sill plates

[Greg McDonnell]

I took my sill plates out of my '68 Eldorado to see if I could clean/polish them.  Both plates have the oval in the center and look identical but one reads "Cadillac" and the other reads "body by Fleetwood".  I have no reason to believe these are not the originals from the factory as, other than a repaint around 1980, the car is very original.  Would this be the way the car came from the factory?  It's a minor detail, I admit.  But I'm curious... If there are any '68 Eldo owners reading this, please take a look at your sill plates and let me know.  I'd appreciate it.   

Thanks in advance,

Greg McDonnell
CLC#20841

[76eldo]

I think they should both say "Fleetwood", as the car is called a Fleetwood Eldorado.
Is it possible that as the car came down the line, a wrong one was put on it?  Maybe one became damaged, and was replaced at some point, that seems more likely.

Brian

[Greg McDonnell]

The reproduction plates I purchased for my '66 Eldorado (also a Fleetwood Eldorado) came from Cadillac USA.  I checked them out today and they have the word "Cadillac" in the oval.  I can't find the ones I removed from the car so I don't have anything to compare them to.   

I noticed these on Ebay a little while ago but they also have the "Body by Fisher" words on them.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110218680093
Did any Cadillacs have the words "Body by Fisher" on the plates or did they all read "Cadillac" or "Body by Fleetwood"?  Is there any company that actually sells the plates with "Body by Fleetwood" on them for the '67-'70 Eldos?  If so, who might that be?

I just looked at Roy Schneider's book, Cadillacs of the Sixties, and he mentioned in the '68 Eldorado section that only some of the '67 Eldorado bodies were made at Fleetwood but the remainder of them ('67s) and the '68s were made at the Fisher Body plant in Euclid, Ohio.  If that is the case, would it be correct to use the standard "Body by Fisher" plates?
   
Greg McDonnell
#20841

[David #19063]

Hey Greg,

Here is what a '72 Eldorado sill plate looks like:

http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~antonell/Cadillac/Cadillac.html

[Jim Skelly, CLC #15958]

Greg,

I checked the ones on my '68 last night.  They both say BODY BY FLEETWOOD (and nothing else).

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

Both my 67 and 69 eldo sill plates are Body by Fleetwood.

Jeffo 49er chapter :<)

[Greg McDonnell]

Thanks Jim and Jeff!  Now I can narrow my search and know that I only need to look for ones with 'Body by Fleetwood' in the oval!  I really appreciate both your replies!

Greg McDonnell

[Greg McDonnell]

I found them today at Cadillac USA!!!

The salesman I spoke with said the correct plate is indeed the one that reads "Body by Fleetwood".  He had two sets and I bought one of them.  After speaking with quite a few vendors, I came to realize these plates are pretty rare.  NO ONE had a set but all wished me luck in my efforts to find the correct plates. 

Oddly, the '68 Eldorado bodies were not actually by Fleetwood but were built by Fisher Body (as per an interview with the primary designer of the '67 Eldorado, Stan Parker, in Cadillac Eldorado.  This book was written by James and Jeanna Howell and was first published in '94).  Based on Stan Parker's remarks in the interview, Fisher Body fabricated the bodies.  Funny the plates read Body by Fleetwood.  Maybe Fleetwood was responsible for the interior of the car?  Fisher Body should have gotten the credit as the rear portion of these cars was a bear to build-according to a body engineer at Fisher Body!  It was basically one piece of metal!!!!  The engineer showed Stan Parker the trouble the rear portion of the car was causing them as they attempted to build what had been designed!  According to that engineer, twice as much sheet metal was being thrown away as was going into the quarter panel!  Doubt that would happen today!  As I said, with all the trouble that car's body was to build, Fisher Body should have gotten the credit (imho). 

Greg McDonnell

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Greg,

I was always of the opinion that Fisher built the bodies of the lesser GM vehicles, and Upholstered them.

Fisher built the Eldorado line and Fleetwood Upholstered them, and the really Top-of-the-line vehicles were fully built and upholstered by Fleetwood.

When the CKD'd vehicles came to Australia, via GM Canada, the bodies were pressed by Fisher, and assembled painted, glazed, tyred and upholstered in Australia by Holden.   This way they could get the required percentage of Local Content to satisfy the Commonwealth Government.

There is always something to be learnt.

Bruce.

[Greg McDonnell]

G'day Greg,

I was always of the opinion that Fisher built the bodies of the lesser GM vehicles, and Upholstered them.

Fisher built the Eldorado line and Fleetwood Upholstered them, and the really Top-of-the-line vehicles were fully built and upholstered by Fleetwood.


Hi Bruce,

It gets even more confusing.  My '72 Fleetwood's (top of the line???) door sill plates read: Interior by Fleetwood Body by Fisher!  They look like the one in David's post further up in this thread.  I wish someone could explain all these contradictions to me!  LOL!

Greg

[Jim Skelly, CLC #15958]

G'day Greg,

I was always of the opinion that Fisher built the bodies of the lesser GM vehicles, and Upholstered them.

Fisher built the Eldorado line and Fleetwood Upholstered them, and the really Top-of-the-line vehicles were fully built and upholstered by Fleetwood.


Hi Bruce,

It gets even more confusing.  My '72 Fleetwood's (top of the line???) door sill plates read: Interior by Fleetwood Body by Fisher!  They look like the one in David's post further up in this thread.  I wish someone could explain all these contradictions to me!  LOL!

Greg


I don't know if the body panels were welded together at a Fisher Body plant before being shipped to Fleetwood in Detroit (since razed).  I believe the bodies with trunks and doors were painted at Fleetwood (I'm not sure about the hood and fenders).  The interior trim and vinyl top were installed at Fleetwood.    The completed bodies were then transported to Clark Street for final assembly.  This may not have been the situation for all of the '67-'78 Eldorados, but I remember seeing trucks occasionally driving by with completed bodies on their way to Clark Street.   

[Greg McDonnell]

In doing a little more research on this topic, I found the following information in Roy Schneider's book, Cadillacs of the Sixties.

During the 1960s, bodies for all Cadillacs (except "75s" and 1967-1969 Eldorados) were built at the Fleetwood plant on Fort Street, a short distance from the Clark facility.  Fleetwood had approximately the same number of employees as Clark-2,000 salaried and 8,000 unionized workers. Here component parts and stampings, arriving from an array of Fisher and allied GM sources, were assembled into body shells.  Moving on dollies carried by a conveyor system, the bodies were then prepped, painted and trimmed.  Completed body assemblies, (over 90% were custom-built to customers specifications) were delivered in special tractor-trailer rigs, similar to double-deck car carriers, to the third floor of the Clark Assembly Building.  After being organized by production sequence, the bodies (still on dollies) were taken by conveyor down to the second floor for installation of instrument panels, steering columns and wiring looms.  Concurrently, down on the first floor's chassis assembly line, chassis were being built to order.  As they reached the body drop juncture, the completed bodies were carefully lowered and bolted to mating chassis.  The body/chassis unit then continued through final assembly whre font clip components-arriving by conveyor-were installed and the finishing details added.  Each car was then driven off the assembly line onto a roll test apparatus where 160 specific checks were completed.  Road conditions up to 60 mph were simulated and evaluated. 

Certain components used in final assembly, such as hoods and front fenders, came from the Division's sheetmetal plant in East Detroit.  These stamped parts were trucked to Clark then prepped and painted in a state-of-the-art paint shop on the newly added fifth floor (fourth floor prior to 1964).  A Cadillac finish consisted of seven coats of quality primer and acrylic lacquer.  Bumpers and trim items, fabricated at the stamping plant, were buffed, polished and triple plated at the main plant. 

From start to finish it took from five to seven days, 1,400 line inspections (every seventh worker was an inspector), and approximately 200 man hours to build a Cadillac in the Sixties.  At the time it was largely hand work as computers and robotics were yet to have a major impact on the industry.  During this period, Clark's main assembly line was on two shifts, running for the most part on a a nine-hour basis. 

AMAZING!!!!!!!!!

Greg McDonnell
- proud owner of two Cadillacs from the Sixties, a '66 and '68 Eldorado

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

In doing a little more research on this topic, I found the following information in Roy Schneider's book, Cadillacs of the Sixties.

Fleetwood had approximately the same number of employees as Clark-2,000 salaried and 8,000 unionized workers.

AMAZING!!!!!!!!!
Greg McDonnell
- proud owner of two Cadillacs from the Sixties, a '66 and '68 Eldorado

I love the bit about the Salaried and Unionised Workers ...... Does that mean that the Unionised Workers weren't actually paid?

No wonder things went bad!

Bruce.

[homeonprunehill]

In doing a little more research on this topic, I found the following information in Roy Schneider's book, Cadillacs of the Sixties.

Fleetwood had approximately the same number of employees as Clark-2,000 salaried and 8,000 unionized workers.

AMAZING!!!!!!!!!
Greg McDonnell
- proud owner of two Cadillacs from the Sixties, a '66 and '68 Eldorado

I love the bit about the Salaried and Unionised Workers ...... Does that mean that the Unionised Workers weren't actually paid?
02-09-08
BRUCE Actully the union worker was over-paid
Bruce, I tried to forward an email  to you about an hour ago, but it wouldn't go through. Write me and I'LL try it again.
G'Luck, JIM

No wonder things went bad!

Bruce.

[Glen]

In doing a little more research on this topic, I found the following information in Roy Schneider's book, Cadillacs of the Sixties.

Fleetwood had approximately the same number of employees as Clark-2,000 salaried and 8,000 unionized workers.

AMAZING!!!!!!!!!
Greg McDonnell
- proud owner of two Cadillacs from the Sixties, a '66 and '68 Eldorado

I love the bit about the Salaried and Unionised Workers ...... Does that mean that the Unionised Workers weren't actually paid?

No wonder things went bad!

Bruce.

The salaried worker is paid by the month regardless of the hours worked. The union worker is paid by the hours worked. 

Glen

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

The salaried worker is paid by the month regardless of the hours worked. The union worker is paid by the hours worked.   Glen   

Thanks for the clarification Glen.

So, it was the overpaid, Golf-playing Salaried Workers that caused the strife then?

Bruce.

PS.   Sorry, couldn't resist.