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Purchase or Not

Started by Ty Stinson, February 28, 2008, 07:47:05 PM

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Ty Stinson

What do you think (pro/con) regarding an outstanding 2001 Cadillac DeVille top model having north star engine with 74,500 miles for under $11,000. Good engine/trans year or not? Should I purchase or stay clear?
Thank you.
Ty Stinson
#22330
Ty Stinson
CLC #22330
'37 Cad 8519

TJ Hopland

Seems high to me but I have not been looking for that type of car so I could be wrong.  I dont think there was anything unusual about the mechanics that year and it was the 2nd or 3rd year? for that body style so they should have had the bugs worked out by then. I just dont like the modern front drive or the center console that sticks out. They still had a good back seat.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

harry s

Ty, I agree about the price. It appears to be top retail. Check the Ebay completed items and you can see actual sold prices and high bids. These may be a little low, but somewhere in the middle would seem to be the right price. I have a '00 Seville with the Northstar and 120K. I have had the crankshaft position sensors and water pump replaced, which I understand is common for these cars. The only other thing is oil comsumtion, at about 1 qt every 1000 miles. Cadillac says this is normal, but it is more than I am used to. It just means checking the oil more often. Good Luck, Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

Jack McClow CLC #15840

I don't know if this will help, but a friend of mine just bought a 2003 DeVille, white diamond with comfort & convenience package, in perfect, absolutely perfect condition with 40,000 miles for $14,000 ....... he paid another $2,500 for a three year 40,000 mile bumper to bumper extended warranty.   He bought the car about three weeks ago and so far could not be happier.  Based upon what he found as he was looking, the prices for these cars should be / might be less than you'd think.

68 Deville

  Ty,   I went to pick up a 2002 Deville all black, up here in New York about 3 months with 12k miles.  I did a car fax and everything checked out ok. I got it for $11K. I really agree with Harry, thats a little high.

Ty Stinson

Thank all of you very much for your comments. Seems the price for the 74,500 mileage is high. The car looks great though, and all of you seem to think the engine and trans are okay for the year. Still thinking about it but that may be as far as I go. I haven't driven it yet. Salesman says it gets 17 MPG and one quart between every oil change but doesn't know where the oil goes. Caris solid black outside with black vinal top half way back, beautiful high polished wheels having the large gold Cadillac Circle Leaf emblem. Grey leather interior. The only thing I don't like about the car other than the top is that it has front wheel drive. Will see the car again tomorrow (Sunday).
Ty Stinson
CLC #22330
Ty Stinson
CLC #22330
'37 Cad 8519

TJ Hopland

I would hate to pay a extra for those two features you dont like.  If it was exactly what you wanted then maybe.  In my area there are plenty of those type of cars for sale so its almost like buying a new one and you can choose your options. 

The front drive is a problem there just are not many options for RWD.  The good part is there are getting to be more and more models all the time.

For the oil consumption a quart in 3000 miles would be considered a good one.  I have read about some that are much worse and are still considered 'normal' by GM.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397

#7
Quote from: Ty Stinson on March 01, 2008, 10:59:04 AM
Thank all of you very much for your comments. Seems the price for the 74,500 mileage is high. The car looks great though, and all of you seem to think the engine and trans are okay for the year. Still thinking about it but that may be as far as I go. I haven't driven it yet. Salesman says it gets 17 MPG and one quart between every oil change but doesn't know where the oil goes. Caris solid black outside with black vinal top half way back, beautiful high polished wheels having the large gold Cadillac Circle Leaf emblem. Grey leather interior. The only thing I don't like about the car other than the top is that it has front wheel drive. Will see the car again tomorrow (Sunday).
Ty Stinson
CLC #22330
Ty,
Since the Northstar engines first came out in 1993 and virtually every one of them has used (not leaked) oil from new, I don't believe the salesman's claim that he "doesn't know where the oil goes" and I also don't believe one quart between changes unless he means 2,000 mile oil changes.  On the other hand, 17 MPG is about as low as I ever got on my two Northstar cars in town and they both got about 24-25 on the highway. I agree about the price being on the high side for that year and mileage. I wouldn't worry about the FWD; it's hard, if not impossible, to feel any difference in the driving, it's better in winter and the constant velocity joints and boots are much more durable than they used to be.  I have 72,000 miles on a 2004 VW Jetta and all the suspension parts are original and it still drives and rides like it did when new. The VW, by the way, has never used more than 1/2 qt between 5,000 mile oil changes which makes me wonder why GM has never been able to stop the oil burning in the Northstars. The electronics struts and shocks can be a very expensive proposition when they do require replacing, but that's not unique to FWD Cadillacs; the RWD and AWD Escalades have them, too.

Lars Kneller 8246

I have a friend that has a 2002 Seville that uses a lot of oil too.  I just turned in a leased 2005 STS with a Northstar, and it never burned a drop of oil.  It came with synthetic from the factory, and went 9000 miles on an oil change, per the oil life monitor, and I never had to add any oil.  It had 35,000 miles on it when I turned it in. So at least by 2005 it appears GM figured it out!

TJ Hopland

Any truth to the rumor that they increased the oil capacity so people would not have to add any between changes?  The time frame I heard that was also when the RWD cars came back so I was thinking it may have just been the pan design due to drivetrain.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397

#10
Quote from: TJ H on March 03, 2008, 09:04:56 AM
Any truth to the rumor that they increased the oil capacity so people would not have to add any between changes?  The time frame I heard that was also when the RWD cars came back so I was thinking it may have just been the pan design due to drivetrain.
A Cadillac dealership service manager told me that the oil capacity was larger because the engineers wanted to be sure that the larger number of components over the OHV engines  (double the number of camshafts and valves) received sufficient lubrication. That makes sense to me since the last 32-valve Cadillac engine before the Northstar, the flathead V-16, required 11 quarts which was nearly twice that of the contemporary Cadillac V-8 (the Sixteen, of course, had many more parts requiring lubrication than the Northstar even with a single camshaft per bank and two valves per cylinder which could explain, along with the much less advanced state of oil and filter quality then, its much larger oil capacity). On the other hand, there are other DOHC 32 valve engines such as the Lexus V-8 that get along fine with 5-6 quarts.  With the typical oil consumption of the Northstars (and it's good to hear from Lars that they were able to stop it by at least 2005), the average owner had to add several quarts between 7,500 mile oil changes, so if that was their reason for increasing the oil capacity it didn't work out as planned.

Morgan Murphy

Our 2000 DTS sucked down a quart every 3,000 miles, which the dealership considered normal.

But when, at 40,000 miles, it began to leak oil on the driveway, we found that it needed all its seals replaced (under warranty). I'd carefully check the car for oil leaks.

Also, I might add that the turning radius on our DTS was much larger than that on our 1990-1992 Broughams. I don't know whether it's the front wheel drive or what, but getting in and out of a parking space or circle drive in the current generation of Devilles is an exercise in patience.
"If the man wants to buy a Cadillac, let the man buy a Cadillac."
J.M. Murphy, 1959

homeonprunehill

Quote from: Morgan Murphy on March 06, 2008, 06:58:00 PM
Our 2000 DTS sucked down a quart every 3,000 miles, which the dealership considered normal.
But when, at 40,000 miles, it began to leak oil on the driveway, we found that it needed all its seals replaced (under warranty). I'd carefully check the car for oil leaks.
Also, I might add that the turning radius on our DTS was much larger than that on our 1990-1992 Broughams. I don't know whether it's the front wheel drive or what, but getting in and out of a parking space or circle drive in the current generation of Devilles is an exercise in patience.
[/quote
03-06-08

Morgan, The first name isn't MICHAEL is it ? Yes, the NORTHSTAR was designed by new engineers that had to make their mark on something!
You'ill come to know when GM hires a new crew of engineers-they think that if one peice of metal will do-then four or five should be better.
To answer  your question, from what I have read and been told,that , yes, 1 qt. in 3000 miles is nothing to get exciteed about. If you think pulling the engine to replace the seals is bad just wait until the "starter" has to be R & R 'd. But , I got over 200K on an '86 without changing the starter.
Good Luck,JIM
USED,ABUSED AND MISUSED CADILLACS AND LA SALLES

The Tassie Devil(le)

I have said it before, but if I had a new car that was burning, or losing that much oil, I would be complaining, or worse still, changing brands.

If it was an old car, I would be rebuilding it.

My cars don't use any oil between oil changes.   The '97 Falcon has Oil Changes every 10,000 kilometres, and the '70 Ranchero whenever I feel like it (Doesn't get used that much).

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

David #19063

1-2 qts. per 3000 miles is about average for the '96 Concours I had.  No big deal.  Checked the oil every time or every other time I got gas.  Added oil when needed.  Sure kept the oil clean...LOL!
David #19063
1996 DeVille Concours

harry s

Here is an interesting read concerning Northstar oil consumption;  http://www.cadillacforums.com/cadillac-tech.html
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

Greg Powers

I am presently selling two Devilles, a 2000 Deville and a 2001 DTS (just sold). Both cars have the Northstar engine (higher horsepower in DTS), both use oil.  The average mileage was about 24 with the Deville and about 21 with the DTS. The real problem with this engine is possible headgasket failure.  If you have a problem you with one you will probably end up buying a new engine. No one wants to try to repair or rebuild the engine. I definitely would not pay high dollar for a used one, and would not purchase one without a a good extended engine warranty. Definitely not "The Standard of the World".
G.L. Powers>1954 Series 62 Sedan/1958 Fleetwood 60 Special-sold/1963 Series 62 Convertible-sold/1970 Fleetwood Brougham-sold/1994 Fleetwood Brougham/1971 Sedan Deville-sold/2000 Deville-sold/2001 DTS-sold/1976 Eldorado Convertible-sold/1983 Coupe Deville-sold/1990 Allante-sold/1990 and 1991 Brougham deElegance-sold/1992 Brougham-sold/Always looking!

T.L. (Ty) Stinson

Thanks everyone!
I still have not driven the car yet because the salesman called to say the car was still in the shop due to a radiator leak. A week later he said the car was still in the shop because it was not the radiator or the hoses but rather a head gasket and would call me when completed. Now the beauty of the car (as I remember it) is already fading and I still have not heard back from the dealer. Just wondering if they found that the waterpump is bad or whatever. Only 74,000 miles on the engine............but I don't know .............think I shouldl just pass on it. Body is like it just came off the assembly line, very impressive with quarter top and black grill and special wheels, but what good is that if the engine is about to go. This is a Cadillac Dealer saying the Book value is about $11,000 something. But now I'm thinking more like $9,000 or may forget it.
Ty Stinson
CLC #22330

Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397

#18
Quote from: T.L. (Ty) Stinson on March 13, 2008, 04:52:47 PM
Thanks everyone!
I still have not driven the car yet because the salesman called to say the car was still in the shop due to a radiator leak. A week later he said the car was still in the shop because it was not the radiator or the hoses but rather a head gasket and would call me when completed. Now the beauty of the car (as I remember it) is already fading and I still have not heard back from the dealer. Just wondering if they found that the waterpump is bad or whatever. Only 74,000 miles on the engine............but I don't know .............think I shouldl just pass on it. Body is like it just came off the assembly line, very impressive with quarter top and black grill and special wheels, but what good is that if the engine is about to go. This is a Cadillac Dealer saying the Book value is about $11,000 something. But now I'm thinking more like $9,000 or may forget it.
Ty Stinson
CLC #22330
Ty,
I think this car,whether at  $11,000 something or $9,000, has "Run Away" stamped all over it. It appears they are finding more and more serious problems the deeper they dig.  Now that they have found a bad head gasket (or two), the next discovery is likely to be coolant in the oil (ask any current or former HT4100 owner what that leads to) and/or evidence of an overheating episode. Remember, this is an all-aluminum engine which is much more susceptible to damage from overheating than is a cast iron engine. To expand on what you said, a like-new body, shiny wheels, custom grill and a vinyl top do not contribute in any way to trouble-free motoring. Keep looking and and I think you'll find a much better car for the money.

The Tassie Devil(le)

Sounds like the sort of car that would be best left alone to me.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe