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'53 Fleetwood Upholstery

Started by Andy, March 01, 2008, 07:32:05 PM

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Andy

What kind of material would have been used on the seats and seat backs of a '53 Fleetwood?

Thanks.

Andy.
If I can't eat it, scratch it, drive it or change its channel, then I'm not interested.

Philippe M. Ruel

My 1952 Fleetwood sedan features wool broadcloth. 99% sure it was like it in 1953. There are leather inserts at the back of front seat.

On Fleetwood limousines, front seat was made of leather, comfortable broadcloth was not intended to the chauffeur.
1952 60 Special in France.

PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192

The plate under the hood on the right hand side will show the trim number used and someone here will be able to translate it for you.
Phil

Andy

I don't have any pictures of the plate in the engine bay, but here are some pictures of the interior.  It looks nice, but it doesn't look like the right material.  The seller insists this is an all-original '53 Fleetwood with a documented 53K miles.


If I can't eat it, scratch it, drive it or change its channel, then I'm not interested.

Andy

here's one more.

Is there anybody in New Jersey that can go look at this car for me?

Thanks.

Andy.

If I can't eat it, scratch it, drive it or change its channel, then I'm not interested.

Barry M Wheeler #2189

I don't think a '53 60S had black bolsters on any leather. You will get all sorts of "documentation" when you are buying or even looking at a car from the owner. At a GN, I was looking at a 41-60S and the owner told me it was the "whatever" model. And, of course, they never did make such. The 60S used either gray or brown broadcloth generally, for traditionalists, and then usually one or two combinatons of plain bolsters and woven cloth in three colors. Sometimes the woven cloth would have the Cadillac "V" in the motif. If someone else doesn't before hand, I'll check this out this afternoon after church. My book is upstairs.
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

Ralph Messina CLC 4937

Andy,

Fleetwoods came in twelve combinations of plain broadcloth; Vee & Crest Cloth and Bedford Cord in green, gray, tan, and blue, The top of the seat back was usually a darker shade than the cushion and lower seat back. It difficult to see the seats in your pictures but they appear to have been reupholstered in what looks like 80-90’s velour.

HTH,
Ralph
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

35-709

"It difficult to see the seats in your pictures but they appear to have been reupholstered in what looks like 80-90’s velour."

I agree, doesn't look at all original to me from what I can see.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Andy

#8
That's what I thought too.  The owner insists it's a black broadcloth, but it looks like velvet/velour to me.  The owner has agreed to get me a picture of the I.D. plate and some more interior pictures.  I really hope it's not velour because the rest of the car looks pretty nice.
If I can't eat it, scratch it, drive it or change its channel, then I'm not interested.

Ralph Messina CLC 4937

Andy,

When you get the photo of the body tag please post the photo or list the contents. I'm confident I have the interior trim list here somewhere. At the very least it would have to be a special order as black interior was not available. I have seen many colors of broadcloth including dark blues, but never black.

Ralph
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

Andy

#10
The more I look, the more confused I get.  The '56 Series '62 turned out to have a non-original interior.  The '53 Fleetwood in Las Vegas turned out to have less than "amazing" chrome, a transmission the "clunked" into first when slowing down and some bondo in the front quarter panel.  The '53 Fleetwood in New Jersey can't possibly have the original interior, but the owner swears it's a documented 56K mile car and he's the third owner and everything on the car is perfect.  The '56 Fleetwood here in Phoenix is absolutely all original and very, very nice.  And it drives great.  But the paint has a lot of spider cracking, The speedo needs to be fixed (reconnected and probably have a new speedo cable installed) and, more importantly, that '56 transmission scares me as many have said it's not a great transmission and it's not easy to get parts for it or people to work on it.

It seems like the '53 in Jersey may be the most car for the money, but I hate that black velour interior.  And all things being equal, I just love the '56 here in Phoenix.  Even though the paint ain't perfect and there's some pitting in the chrome, it's original.  And a car can only be original once.  It's got this great funky interior, the headliner is in great shape, the windows go up and down perfectly... even the clock and radio work!  What to do, what to do. 

All four cars are for sale for the same dollars.  And I figure that irrespective of which one I buy, I'll have to invest about $1000 in new www tires and a few hundred more here and there and a couple more dollars still to augment the stock radiator so the engine doesn't overheat after 500 miles.

If it weren't for all the horror stories I've heard about 1956 trannies, I'd have already bought the one here in Phoenix.  But I want a car that I can drive back to Ohio and and take on tours and a tricky transmission that's subject to breaking down is not what I want.  But that 365 cubic inch engine is just incredible!

AAAAAARRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!   ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
If I can't eat it, scratch it, drive it or change its channel, then I'm not interested.

Andy

#11
Lou - It's a '56 Fleetwood, burgundy body, black roof and gray/white interior.  Is there another '56 Fleetwood in Phoenix for sale?

And regarding the speedo...  The temp and fuel gauges are not working either.  The current owner got a quote of $500 - $600 to get all the gauges working and reconnected again.  I don't have the technical expertise or tools to do the job.  What do you think?
If I can't eat it, scratch it, drive it or change its channel, then I'm not interested.

Jim Govoni CLC 20546

I just replaced the entire interior in my 53. I have all the data books as well as the authenticity manual. I just recently had the GM Heritage group send me the build sheet. When they send the build sheet they send the entire lines interior combinations. I agree with Ralph and others, the 53 shown is NOT original. The seats are wool broadcloth, ask me how long I waited for a company in OR to make them. I feel though, following this post that you can't expect perfection unless the car is a CLC judged senior car. Only then will enough people have seen the car to attest it's originality or compatible replacement. Just my thoughts. Email me if you need and help or research on a 53.  Jim
1953 Series 62 
1966 Fleetwood 
1969 deVille Convert.
1941 Series 63

Andy

Jim - absolute 100% originality is not my very highest priority.  And if the '53 in Jersey had an interior that wasn't Velour or wasn't black, I'd be more inclined to like it.  But the color and the material combined, inside a car with a black exterior is just not doing anything for me.  In terms of pure aesthetics, the '53 Fleetwood in Vegas is probably the best looking.  But the filler in the front quarter combined with the clunky transmission are not particularly appealing. 

Now in terms of the car here in Phoenix, I'm OK with the non-working speedometer.  What concerns me is why are the fuel and temp gauges also not working?  I'm hoping that I can get the owner here in Phoenix to have his mechanic sort out the car so I can drive it about 30 - 40 miles on the highway with fresh gas in the tank.  If the transmission feels good and I can get a good handle on what I need to do to get the instrument pod functioning, then that is probably the direction I'll go.

Unless of course yet another '53 - '56 Fleetwood emerges that deserves serious consideration.
If I can't eat it, scratch it, drive it or change its channel, then I'm not interested.

veesixteen

Definitely NOT the original material nor design pattern.  According to the Dealer Data Book for 1953, the '53 "60 Special" seats are trimmed in "light-tone BEDFORD CORD fabrics or alternate choices of plain BROADCLOTH or V and crest pattern cloth. ALL are fashioned in 1" pipes (this car looks like it has 2" pipes - the front seat back should have around three dozen pipes, I counted about two dozen), with tailored welts of harmonizing and contrasting colors. Richly padded and cushiond bolsters are styled in luxurious dark tone broadcloth of long-wearing quality."  The Data Book adds that the back of the front seat was  "tailored in gleaming leather" (as appears to be the case in your photos) and the "lower seat fronts  and seat sides are faced in dark leather for lasting beauty" (not visible in your photos).  As to the door panels, the book says there is a "simulated 'ostrich skin' insert between darker metal-finish panels" where the door pull-handles are mounted. "Arm rests are integral" and "genuine leather welts lend accents to this setting of beauty" (I don't see any leather on the door panels of the car in the photos)  As Ralph Messina says quite rightly, there were 12 standard trim styles, although customers could indeed order something special, but in that case there would be the code "SO" (special order) on the body plate.

Quote from: Andy on March 02, 2008, 07:22:01 AM
I don't have any pictures of the plate in the engine bay, but here are some pictures of the interior.  It looks nice, but it doesn't look like the right material.  The seller insists this is an all-original '53 Fleetwood with a documented 53K miles.
Yann Saunders, CLC #12588
Compiler and former keeper of "The Cadillac Database"
aka "MrCadillac", aka "Veesixteen"

Ralph Messina CLC 4937

Andy,

I wouldn’t let the gauges discourage me. In the larger scheme of an old car they are relatively minor to repair. Both gauges may be malfunctioning because of something as simple as a wire, the ground or the sending switch. It could be just old tired gauges that need to be rebuilt. Removing them is a job that requires patience more that a high degree of skill. What ever you take apart, lay the pieces out in sequence and return them in reverse. At worst it still won’t work and you’ve not done any additional harm.

The transmission is a different issue. The dual pump design was an attempt to make shifting as smooth as possible. In doing so, some of the original Hydramatic’s simpler more durable characteristics were compromised. Having owned both a ’56 and ’57 as used cars in my terrible youth I can say they held up well to my abuse. At the very worst, you’d be looking at a $1000-1500 overhaul bill for what looks like a really nice ’56 Fleetwood. By comparison, that price might buy you several square feet of chrome plating or paint and metal work.

As far as South Paw’s comment about only living once I suggest ya gotta do it right before Congress passes a “Reincarnation tax”…..

Ralph
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

Andy

I'm going to get underneath the '56 tonight.  If the inspection checks out tonight and the drive checks out tomorrow, then I think that's the one i'll get.
If I can't eat it, scratch it, drive it or change its channel, then I'm not interested.