Seatbelts in a prewar cadillac

[jbento]

Hello again.

As we move to the interior of my 1940 Series 72, I have some questions about seatbelts.

Has anyone put seatbels in such a beast?  I know its not really a necessity (heaven help someone who hits this tank like car) but since my wife is a worry wort and will not let the kids ride in the car without seat belts, I guess I should put in some simple lap belts.

Has anyone done this?  Where should I get the parts?  Where should I bolt them down?  Any advice, as always, is welcome. Pictures are nice too.

Joe

[homeonprunehill]

Hello again.

As we move to the interior of my 1940 Series 72, I have some questions about seatbelts.

Has anyone put seatbels in such a beast?  I know its not really a necessity (heaven help someone who hits this tank like car) but since my wife is a worry wort and will not let the kids ride in the car without seat belts, I guess I should put in some simple lap belts.

Has anyone done this?  Where should I get the parts?  Where should I bolt them down?  Any advice, as always, is welcome. Pictures are nice too.

Joe

04-13-08
jOE, I have only redone my '38 La Salle coupe . And I could have done it with-out Seat Belts. But it will not make you a better driver and it is a small price to pay to please your wife. I put a dark gray seat-cover in mine and a light colored seat belt, looks nice, even if I have to say so my-self. got the seat belts from "Kanter auto products". Just be preparded to receive a catalog or two a year. if you buy anything. Some people don't like seat belts. I, for one, will not leave the garage with out the seat belts being connected. Some people don't like air-bags, me, for one. Good Luck,Jim P.S. Kanter also has an "On line catalog".

[Fred Zwicker #23106]

Joe,

About a year ago, I installed a set of seat belts (lap belts) in my 1939 LaSalle Convertible.  I am a seat belt person, so felt funny driving the car until I installed these.  The seat belts were purchased from J.C. Whitney and were inexpensive ($22.99 for the pair + S&H).  They matched the interior (maroon) and looked appropriate and were OK, but I started thinking that eventually the buckle would scratch the leather finish of the seat or drop down between the side of the seat and the door, with possible scratching of the paint around the door or damage to the aluminum door sill.   I then spent most of last year on a full restoration and as part of the restoration, had the seats tightened up and the door panel interior material replaced so as not to sag.  Then came the new carpet and then the newly refinshed dashboard.  Little by little the interior got to look so good that the seat belts looked less attractive.  I faced the same dilemma that you are facing.

Considering my very limited mileage, I decided to leave the seat belts off at the end of the restoration. I am not sure what type of protection is offered on a convertible without shoulder belts and no air bags, etc., but do not feel that the seat belts that I previously installed would have been the answer.  Accordingly I am satisfied that I made the right decision and hope that I do not experience an accident that proves otherwise. This is a judgement call and only you can decide.

Fred

[mario]

i picked up a set of mid 50's fleetwood cadillac belts to use in my 49 at a swap meet. the buckles are brushed steel with the caddy logo on it with red strapping. they look like they belong in the car, due to the logo on them.
ciao,
mario

[Otto Skorzeny]

Hello,

I just wanted to point out that seat belts - lap belts included - do more than protect you in a crash. Fred wondered whether lap belts would be worthwhile in a convertible without airbags, etc. I would like to point out that the the most important function of lap belts is to keep the driver in a position to control the vehicle. They prohibit lateral movement during regular driving and in sudden maneuvers.

Without a lap belt, it's really easy to slide around on leather seats when cornering or swerving to miss an object in the road or keeping the car under control during a blow out. Likewise for the passengers.

Forrest

[Fred Zwicker #23106]

   I agree and will now see if I can locate some maroon seat belts with the Cadillac Logo.  These might be a better alternative than the generic type made by J.C. Whitney which looked out of place.  My biggest concern was the possibility of damaging the leather, paint or trim, especially at this time with a fresh restoration that will be shown this summer.  After a few shows, I will later start driving the car on a regular basis and will then want to think seriously about installing the seat belts again.  Thanks for the reminder.  (I'm still a seat belt person and always will be).

Fred

[mario]

fred:
i will try to get some picts of those seat belts i found and post them. wont be till next weekend though!
ciao,
mario

[Wayne Womble 12210]

I put some in the back of my 31 sedan for the grandkids.  I found some from the junk yard that matched, with retractors. Mounted them under the seats with the belt coming between the back and bottom of the seat. The buckles and belt ends retract into the crack and are not noticeable at all.

[baxterculver]

Hello again.

As we move to the interior of my 1940 Series 72, I have some questions about seatbelts.

Has anyone put seatbels in such a beast?  I know its not really a necessity (heaven help someone who hits this tank like car) but since my wife is a worry wort and will not let the kids ride in the car without seat belts, I guess I should put in some simple lap belts.

Has anyone done this?  Where should I get the parts?  Where should I bolt them down?  Any advice, as always, is welcome. Pictures are nice too.

Joe

Joe,
If the construction of the front seat in your Series 72 is anything like the front seat of my '39 60S, fitting seat belts is a very difficult task.  The 60
Special front seat has a single sheet of metal that extends from the top to under the front seat cushion.  The seat belts must pass thru that metal in order to be attached to the floor behind the foot rest.  That leaves four (six?) rectangular slots in the seat back thru which the belts protrude and the metal belt anchors bolted to the floor right at the rear passengers' feet.  Not pretty.  Plus, if your front seat moves on a track, the belts have to accomodate the seat's travel.  I haven't yet figured out a way to install them.  It doesn't help that the upholstery in my car is still original.

[jbento]

Thanks Baxter.

I will have to pay some attention to that, but appreciate the heads up.  I am truthfully more concerned about the back seat, since this is something my wife wants and thats were she and the kids will be.  (In fact there is room for an entire family of 8 back there!)   

Thanks also to Wayne for his suggestion.  A juck yard might be just the ticket to get some retractable ones without breaking the bank!

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Hi Joe & Baxter: Here are a couple of pictures of seat belts in my 41 60s. Not hard to do since I used a hand held Sears jig saw to cut slots in the metal back. We have done a couple more installations to 41s here in Phoenix. Please email me direct for more pictures.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Here is the second picture. Sorry about that

[jbento]

Thanks for the pics Bill.

They reminded me of an important distinction that I should probably make.  My series 72 is the less common 7223.  This particular style has two fold out "auxilliary seats" that fold into the floor and back of the front seat.

Might this be an issue?

[homeonprunehill]

Thanks for the pics Bill.

They reminded me of an important distinction that I should probably make.  My series 72 is the less common 7223.  This particular style has two fold out "auxilliary seats" that fold into the floor and back of the front seat.

Might this be an issue?

04-21-08
"J", Only if you make it an issue. I woulds put 3 or 4 sets in the back seat ,whatever is confortable, 3 or 4 people in the back "main" seat and a couple of sets for the auxillary seats, just don't DRILL into the gas-tank. Good Luck,Jim

[Bill Gauch #23121]

Thanks Baxter.

I will have to pay some attention to that, but appreciate the heads up.  I am truthfully more concerned about the back seat, since this is something my wife wants and thats were she and the kids will be.  (In fact there is room for an entire family of 8 back there!)   

Thanks also to Wayne for his suggestion.  A juck yard might be just the ticket to get some retractable ones without breaking the bank!

There is one small potential issue with getting seat belts from a junk yard. Technically, you can't. You a not allowed, by law, to remove the seat belts from a junked car. Now, that said, most junk yards will likely be happy to sell you the belts. The only exception would be one of the pull-it-for-you places. They may not want to risk the liability. It might be pricey, but can you buy replacement seat belts in your preferred color from the local Cadillac dealer?

[baxterculver]

Here is the second picture. Sorry about that

Bill,
Do all of the four belts bolt to the floor.  The picture shows only two attachments--I presume they are the right side fixed and retractable belts.  Or?

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Hi Baxter: Yes, all four bolts are through the floor and big washers on the underside.I bought both sets of belts from Snake-Oil Products. I did the same set up on the 47 Convert. I used retractors on both outside belts as the belts with out the retractors are just long enough so that you can shut the door on part of the belt which in turn plays H with the step plate.

[Don Boshara #594]

Underneath the floor pan on a ‘38 - ‘40 60S (I don’t know about the ‘41) is a sturdy cross brace that seemed to me to be an excellent location for anchoring the front seat belts. You do need to release the seat from the tracks and tilt it forward or remove it in order to drill bolt holes thru the floor and crossbrace. The belts can then be attached under the seat and won’t show behind the rear footrest. I did this on my ‘40 60S and it worked great and doesn't interfere with adjusting the seat. The toughest part is cutting slots in the base of the seat between the cushion and backrest for the belts to pass thru. I did this while reupholstering the seat.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Don: I thought of that procedure you used but I personally would rather keep the belt as straight as possible from the seat to the anchor point so that if belts were needed in an accident, that person would not move foreword as much as anchoring under the seat . To anchor under the seat puts the belts at more of an angle to the person so the force in an accident would cause the belts to seek a straight line putting the force first at the point where the belts come through the slots on the seat back. This would undoubtedly bend the seat upwards & foreward causing the person to move foreword towards the steering wheel. Anchoring through the floor with a big washer on the underside also has its negative points. Nothing is perfect.

[Don Boshara #594]

Bill, you've got a good point. However, I only intend to crash while in reverse.