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Selenoid on 48 cad.

Started by JD48-6269, May 26, 2008, 05:52:37 PM

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JD48-6269

 Deeply disappointed. I waited over 3 weeks for my rebuilt solenoid. It looked great in the box. I installed it today and it still does not engage the starter. Turn the key push the button and nothing, does not even make a sound. If I jump the lugs the starter spins and sounds good. But the solenoid pinion does not move. Am I missing something. I know the 48 62 series with the Hydra-matic transmission has a over ride so the starter will not engage while in gear. But if you jump the starter wouldnt it still engage the pinion ?  I would appreciate any and all suggestions. The car has sat for 14 years and Im really biten at the bit to hear this flat head purr.
Jeffrey

Virgil Perkins #19943

Did you by any chance replace the 4 bolts attaching the solenoid to the starter?
I experienced the exact same thing with a rebuilt solenoid on my '41. Wound up tracing the problem to the new ss bolts that I replaced the originals with, which were a tad longer, and she kicked in and started on the second turn. Longer bolt was making contact in the field resulting in the same scenario that you have described. May be a long shot, but at least make sure that this isn't your problem.

Bill Ingler #7799

If the car has sat for 14 years then I would first do a continuity check on the whole starting circuit. Are all the connections tight and free of corrosion and all grounds clean? One area that could be the problem is the neutral safety switch which could be bad or needs adjusting or the relay inside the solenoid is not closing the switch for the starting circuit. With the ignition switch off and the transmission in neutral, touch the tip of the continuity light on one of the two connections on the neutral safety switch and then touch the alligator clip end of the continuity light wire on the other connection of the neutral switch. If the switch is OK you should get a continuity light.

Rhino

I would check to verify that current is reaching the solenoid. Jump the battery wire to the top terminal on the solenoid to see if it pulls in and activates the starter. NEUTRAL, NEUTRAL, NEUTRAL. And block the wheels in case the engine starts. If that works your problem is in the starter switch or it's wiring.

JD48-6269

 I took the cover off of the solenoid and jumped from the battery. If I push the contact closed then the arm engages.  I think the problem must be with the
neutral safety switch.  Im trying to trace down any wires that might be shorting out, I've found afew bare wires. Yep; looks like I got to start tracing the problem back. Thanks for the help.
Jeffrey

Bill Ingler #7799

With the help of someone else, put the transmission in neutral, brakes set, turn on the key and have your helper push the start button. When the start button is pushed that sends current down to the starter relay which is what you see with the solenoid cover off. With a tester light grounded and as the person pushes the start button, touch the top most solenoid relay terminal with the tester to see if there is current getting to to the relay. If no current then disconnect the two wires going to the neutral safety switch, jumper wire them together and push the starter button again to see if you are now getting current to the relay. If you get a test light you know that the problem is the neutral safety. If the neutral safety is good and you are getting current to the relay and the relay points are not closing then you have a bad relay. More than likely a broken wire in the relay windings. I think the PDF file below will give you a good idea of the function of the starter relay inside the solenoid.


Doug Houston

One other thing you might check. The safety circuit you mentioned is on all Cadillacs from 1940 past(?) 1948. The little relay that you pressed the contacts together on grounds through the generator armature. Without going through a tutorial on circuitry, the generator must be connected before the starter could be energized. Is it possible that the generator wasn't connected?
38-6019S
38-9039
39-9057B
41-6227D
41-6019SF
41-6229D
41-6267D
56-6267
70-DeV Conv
41-Chev 41-1167
41 Olds 41-3929

baxterculver

Quote from: Doug Houston #2257 on May 29, 2008, 12:22:31 AM
One other thing you might check. The safety circuit you mentioned is on all Cadillacs from 1940 past(?) 1948. The little relay that you pressed the contacts together on grounds through the generator armature. Without going through a tutorial on circuitry, the generator must be connected before the starter could be energized. Is it possible that the generator wasn't connected?
Doug is correct.  One side of the starter relay is wired to provide a ground through the generator--this circuitry prevents unintended re-energizing the starter once the motor starts and the generator is producing electrical current.  Easy to check.  If you don't have the generator hooked up yet, just ground one side of the starter relay by means of a jumper wire.
baxter culver clc#17184

JD48-6269

OK things are lookin up. I loosened the solenoid screws...I think they are original, length should not be a problem.
Wrapped a few bare wires.
Cleaned all connections on Gen, voltage reg, coil,...
( I did notice that the B coil in the V/R was hot to the touch, the other coils were cool.)  I also found a previously installed, but looks like new voltage regulator in the original box purchased in 1983 in the trunk. Also found a new in the box starter button under the seat. Obviously the previous owner was having some kind of difficulties.
I bypassed the neutral safety switch, ran a lead wire from the solenoid up to the dashboard to my test light....pushed the button.... light lit , but no solenoid movement. I sat quietly in the car for awhile slowly brushing tears out of my eyes. Thinking that the solenoid that I Waited 3 weeks for was no good. I pushed to button one more time  And She Cranked Over !  So I must have ran the battery to low. She is on a charger and tomorrow we shall see.

Thanks for the help, Im sure my next post will be how to adjust the NSS, It doesn't seem to be making any contact with the shift column.
Jeffrey

JD48-6269

 I can not stop grinning. I poured alil gas down the carb, and she started over after about 2 minutes of cranking. She spurttered alil gave alil cough and just idled perfectly. I can not believe this old flat head sounds so good and quiet. This car sat for 14 years, and it just runs so nice. After running for a few minutes, I double checked all of the fluid levels, tightened down the carb leaks. The water pump is leaking like a sieve. But after all of the alcaldes  from the wife and kids ( Now Im am the master mechanic ) we all piled in and took a slow drive around the yard. Everything was working so good ; I couldn't help myself...we drove down too the local park. Its only 2 blocks on a rural road but the car was so quiet and smooth all I could hear was the pat pat pat of the flat spots on the tires.  Thanks again for the help.
Jeffrey