Carter AFB

[Paul Flykt # 18899]

My son and I rebuilt the Carter carburetor on our '62 Sedan de Ville.  Prior to the rebuild you could close the air screw tight with no affect on idle speed. Adjusting the air screw in or out did nothing. It was running very rich.  We cannot get a decent idle without restricting the air by partially closing the choke or holding a hand over the carb. Now if you turn the air screw in to less than 2 turns it stalls the engine.We soaked it over night and blew out every passage, set the floats, new needles valves and seats, new accelerator pump etc. We tried dumping some propane around the carb and intake looking for a vacuum leak and found nothing. What are we missing? Any help is appreciated.

Paul

[Joe 12138]

A stainless steel shim/spacer is needed between the carb and the insulator when using the AFB but not the Rochester. Is it there? You can't get a decent idle without it (See Shop manual).

[Paul Flykt #18899]

Joe, Thanks for the reply. I'll have to ask my son. He removed and reinstalled the carb. If it is there my next move will be to plug all the vacuum lines. It seems to me that by restricting the air flow the idle improves it is running lean for some reason. There are a lot of vacuum accessories on these cars.

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Paul,

I agree with Joe, if that shim was not re-installed, or installed incorrectly the car will run really bad at idle.

john w.

[Paul Flykt #18899]

Thanks for the reply. The shim was missing. I found one in St Paul at The Carburetor Shop. Put it on, greatly improved the idle but far from perfect. We installed a 1405 Edelbrock headed for my sons street rod '46 Chev pick up.  Idles great. Obviously the Carter needs more work. The carb was full of soot when we initially tore it down. Now we know it was a result of the missing shim. We'll try again including new metering rods etc, not just the basic NAPA kit.
Why did this engine run decent without the shim prior to the rebuild? Now I know the strong smell of gas coming from the tail pipe was because of the missing shim. The shim prevents the exhaust gas circulating under the carb from scavanging  some of the air fuel mixture and sending it out the tail pipe.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Hi Paul,

Whenever you're looking for carburetor advice or parts/rebuild kits, call these guys:

Daytona Parts Company
386-427-7108
www.daytonaparts.com
mail@daytonaparts.com

This company assembles nearly all the carburetor kits sold by other suppliers. They have the largest archive of original carburetor blueprints from the original manufacturers in the world. They make kits for virtually every automotive carb made from 1900 to 1980.

As for Carter carbs, they obtained Carter's entire archive of factory specs, blueprints, etc. from the turn of the century (19th/20th) to the day they went out of business.

They also do top quality rebuilding of carburetors for those who don't wish to do it themselves. Check them out. You'll be impressed.

Ask for Ron Hewitt or Tim Hewitt.

[Paul Flykt #18899]

Forrest

Thanks for the reply. I will give them a call on Monday. I opened up another can of worms today. I thought I had a sticky lifter on my '57 CdV. I removed the valve cover to see what was going on and found a broken push rod. I'll open another posting on this topic.


Paul

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Otto,

I don't want to open a can of worms but I have one issue with Daytona Parts Company they don't supply the primary jets with their kits. With Carter carburetors the jets get worn due to the action of the metering rods. When rebuilding a Carter carburetor when you take the jets out and turn them over you generally find that the holes are oblong or larger than they should be. The primary jets on Carter carburetors, generally, should always be replace when rebuilding.

I've only found one vendor who provides the jets with his kits, that is "the carburetor shop" (thecarburetorshop.com).

The Daytona Parts Company supplies good quality kits and I have no complaints, but think about jets when you rebuild a Carter carburetor.

Good Luck

John W

[Paul Flykt # 18899]

John, thank-you for the information. The NAPA kit did not have metering jets included. I'll take it apart again and see what they look like. I know they were out during the rebuild but did not give them more than a quick look.
Paul

[Joe]

Thanks for the reply. The shim was missing. I found one in St Paul at The Carburetor Shop. Put it on, greatly improved the idle but far from perfect. We installed a 1405 Edelbrock headed for my sons street rod '46 Chev pick up.  Idles great. Obviously the Carter needs more work. The carb was full of soot when we initially tore it down. Now we know it was a result of the missing shim. We'll try again including new metering rods etc, not just the basic NAPA kit.
Why did this engine run decent without the shim prior to the rebuild? Now I know the strong smell of gas coming from the tail pipe was because of the missing shim. The shim prevents the exhaust gas circulating under the carb from scavanging  some of the air fuel mixture and sending it out the tail pipe.

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Paul.......Your mention of soot in the carb may be an indication of another problem.  If the choke hot air tube that goes THROUGH the intake manifold is rusted through or broken, you may be drawing exhaust gasses through the choke assembly into the carb.

[Paul Flykt #18899]

Joe

That pipe was in good shape. The manual does shows a baffle in the choke assembly that was missing, but there is not a direct route into carb from the choke assembly.
I think the soot was a result of the missing stainless shim. The base of the carb was directly exposed to hot exhaust. There was a a sustantial build up of carbon on the underside of the carburetor base. It was in the same shape and depth as the channel open to exhaust in the insulator.

[malatu]

I have a 1962 with the same carb and  the same problem you did with idle.  I spoke to the guys at Daytona and spent some time on the phone talking about my idle problem.  I too was missing the metal shim plate.  Once installed, it idled much better but not perfect.  They also emphasized over and over to make sure I did not have the high resistance spark plug wires.  The high resistance wires don't provide enough voltage for spark and makes the engine appear to run rich.  I've yet to check this but will. They also stated too high of a fuel pressure can affect the idle.  According to Tim at Daytona, it should be 5 lbs max.

A question for all.  The spacer plate, the bakelite gasket (about 3/8" thick had a small crack in it.  We patched it up and put it back but I need to get a new one.  The folks in Daytona don't offer this part.  Does anyone know where I can get one of these spacer plates?

[malatu]

I just found a carb spacer called a carb insulator.  It is on ebay for $95.  This sounds like a lot of money for this part.  Does anyone reproduce these items?  It's basically a think gasket made of hard insulating material.  Here is the item number if interested.   
310062679181

[Paul Flykt #18899]

I have a 1962 with the same carb and  the same problem you did with idle.  I spoke to the guys at Daytona and spent some time on the phone talking about my idle problem.  I too was missing the metal shim plate.  Once installed, it idled much better but not perfect.  They also emphasized over and over to make sure I did not have the high resistance spark plug wires.  The high resistance wires don't provide enough voltage for spark and makes the engine appear to run rich.  I've yet to check this but will. They also stated too high of a fuel pressure can affect the idle.  According to Tim at Daytona, it should be 5 lbs max.

A question for all.  The spacer plate, the bakelite gasket (about 3/8" thick had a small crack in it.  We patched it up and put it back but I need to get a new one.  The folks in Daytona don't offer this part.  Does anyone know where I can get one of these spacer plates?

The part that baffles me is the car idled decent prior to the rebuild without the metal shim. It was running rich but the spark plugs were tan. The shim cleared up the strong smell of gas out the exhaust but the idle problem still exists. I have not ordered a complete kit with metering jets yet but will soon. The Edelbrock is doing it's job. In fact it just may stay.
Paul

[malatu]

Ya know, I had the same issue.  The car idled fine for the first three months I owned it.  Then all the sudden it shook and shuddered at idle.  The addition of the shim plate also eliminated the strong smell of gas and it now idles ok but not perfect.