News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

Hydro Electric Window Schematic

Started by domer, August 18, 2008, 01:49:22 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

domer

I just recently purchased a 2 owner 1952 Cadillac Fleetwood a few days ago. I was just wondering if anyone had a wiring diagram available for the windows.  All four windows are inoperable and I just figured that the wiring should be the first thing I check before I get any deeper in this task.
Also, If anyone has a 1952 Cadillac shop manual for sale, please let me know.
Thanks
Dominique Vasquez #24943
1959 Coupe Deville http://bit.ly/1XkRuZc
1994 Fleetwood  http://bit.ly/1OTqOf1

Philippe M. Ruel

#1
Here is a 1952 hydro-lectric system wiring diagram. It is from a 1952 shop manual, of which reproductions (and sometimes originals) can be found on eBay or from Bishko Books.
This specific harness is almost half of the whole car electric harness.

I started several threads about this system on this forum :
about hydraulic cylinders : http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,98662.0.html
about hoses : http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,100641.0.html
about wiring : http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,99647.0.html

Making of a new hydro-lectric harness for my 1952 Fleetwood is described here : http://www.dreams-cars.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=7947, this is a french forum but there are plenty pictures.

This system is a pain in the neck, but it must be a great satisfaction when it works properly (my own still doesn't ;D ).
1952 60 Special in France.

Otto Skorzeny

Hello,

Don't know if you've started working on this yet but I've found that the most common reason these windows stop working is because the switches on the doors have become corroded or dirty. Start with the individual switches at the passenger windows. Clean the contacts and wire connections. You may be surprised that that's all they need.

No windows worked on my car when I bought it and after I cleaned up the corrosion and junk on the switches, theyall worked. I only had one window motor that need to be replaced.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

domer

Hello club members. First of all thanks for the very informative material. I must say I am very grateful for everyones help.   Well after studying the schematic, I noticed the hydra battery feed cable was hooked up to the wrong post. I've only had the car a few weeks and its a two owner Caddy. The previous owner must have accidentally hooked the cable incorrectly.  I hooked up the cable and all but one window worked flawlessly.  The back passenger window does not move or make any type of noise.  I will take your advice and check the switch. I had a similar problem with my 1962 Coupe Deville. The back drivers side window switch seems to be upside down. I had to push down on the switch to get the window up.
One thing that has me a little confused is soon after I hooked the hydra battery cable to the correct post and operated the windows the car just died.  The hydra battery cable was a little to short to make good contact with the battery post and quickly heated up.  I'm charging the battery now as we speak.
Dominique Vasquez #24943
1959 Coupe Deville http://bit.ly/1XkRuZc
1994 Fleetwood  http://bit.ly/1OTqOf1

domer

Hello everyone,
  Well I charged my battery last night and began working on the windows as soon as I got home from work.  I have a few more questions.  As soon as I hooked up the hydra battery cable to the battery post the hydroelectric pump began operating as if I was holding a switch down or up to operate a window.  As this was going on, I did a quick lap around the and messed with all the window switches just to make sure any one of the switches wasn't stuck. Just as I was going to disconnect the cable, one of the hoses busted shooting fluid everywhere.  Does this mean I have an electric short in one of the switches or in the hydro-electric pump itself.  Also what type of fluid should I use to refill the canister?  Is it a difficult task?  I have never done this before, as I have only owned the car for a few months.
One more thing. Is there a special type of transmission fluid that I should be using in the 52 Caddy.  It seems to have a hard time shifting gears.  When down shifting, it kicks pretty hard going from second to first gear.
thanks
dominique
Dominique Vasquez #24943
1959 Coupe Deville http://bit.ly/1XkRuZc
1994 Fleetwood  http://bit.ly/1OTqOf1

depmike38

#5
Try Classic Car Wiring for what's probably the easiest to read diagram I've ever seen. The one I got for the 51 was a duplicate of the one in my factory manual but blown up larger, laminated, and color-coded for those of us with less than perfect eyes. I talked to the guy that does them and he was very helpful. There's two versions and I got the 11"x17" for around $20. Web is www.ClassicCarWiring.com or (917)861-9131. It helped me figure out that one of the previous owners of the 51 had my master switch wired completely wrong.  Mike Freeman

Oh.something else about the switches no ones mentioned is that they don't need to be operated without the wire cage holding them to the chrome bezel/housing. If in working on it in the past someone tried to do this the internal parts of the switch can roll out of position and will not make proper connection. If you're wanting to be completely sure about your switches they can be completely disassembled fairly easily and lightly polished to clean them, just rub hard enough to clean off the tarnish. Mike Freeman
Mike Freeman

Philippe M. Ruel

#6
Quote from: domer on August 19, 2008, 11:08:46 PMAs soon as I hooked up the hydra battery cable to the battery post the hydroelectric pump began operating as if I was holding a switch down or up to operate a window.
Check if everything is connected the right way (this pump is actuated by a relay, the same way a starter motor is).
QuoteI did a quick lap around the and messed with all the window switches just to make sure any one of the switches wasn't stuck.
Check if it still works strangely with the green tracer wire disconnected from the pump relay. If it does, there may be a short circuit in the pump. If it doesn't, check all switches including front seat switch.
QuoteJust as I was going to disconnect the cable, one of the hoses busted shooting fluid everywhere.
If one busted, the five or six other ones will need replacement as well.
Quotewhat type of fluid should I use to refill the canister?  Is it a difficult task?
It was originally brake fluid. Many folks here, including me, replace it with automatic transmission fluid, there was a thread about it lately. Some say it may bring trouble, some say no.
It is very easy to flush and fill, you only need some room to crawl under the car and snap off/on the canister bail wire, getting an optional but free hair shampoo. All instructions are in the shop manual, the only thing to remember is that the canister should be filled with all four windows in the down position and front seat fully backwards.
QuoteIs there a special type of transmission fluid that I should be using in the 52 Caddy.  It seems to have a hard time shifting gears.  When down shifting, it kicks pretty hard going from second to first gear.
Gear shifting on these early Hydra-Matics are not as smooth as on later transmissions. My own car works on "ordinary" Dexron II automatic transmission fluid with no trouble to date.
1952 60 Special in France.

domer

Thanks For the help. I will give it a shot this weekend.
Thanks
Dominique
Dominique Vasquez #24943
1959 Coupe Deville http://bit.ly/1XkRuZc
1994 Fleetwood  http://bit.ly/1OTqOf1

domer

Hello,
I was just wondering if anyone could tell me what are the correct style of terminals that I should use for the wiring that goes from the hydrolectric pump to the battery cable. I know I need some type of double connection on the battery post because of the second wire that goes to the starter.  I also not sure what type of connection I should be using for the cable that runs from the starter to the voltage regulator.  I know I have the correct connector on the starter  but not sure about the voltage regulator connection because of the double connection on that terminal and the difference in wire size in comparison to the condensor connection.  Pictures would really help out!!!  What is a good website to purchase these connectors?  Is there a manual that list all the correct connectors.  I know I could make it work somehow but guess I'm just a little to picky.
Thanks
Dominique Vasquez #24943
1959 Coupe Deville http://bit.ly/1XkRuZc
1994 Fleetwood  http://bit.ly/1OTqOf1

Philippe M. Ruel

All connectors on hydro-lectric system except the ones at window cylinders are of the "ring" or "flag ring" type :

The ones at cylinders are of the "Wade" type :

You'll find all these at Rhode Island Wiring, http://www.riwire.com/Catalogs/sup/pages/ringsand.htm, as well as correct cotton-braided wires and insulation tubes.
1952 60 Special in France.

domer

Ok. Thanks!!! but what about the connection from the positive battery post to the hydro pump?  It looks like I need some sort of double connector at the post for the hdro pump and the cable for the starter. What is the correct wire size as well?  Or am I wiring this up incorrectly.  Also, the wire coming from the starter to the voltage regulator that I currently have seems to big for the flagstyle connections.  Any ideas on the correct wire size and connection style at the regulator.
Thanks
Dominique
Dominique Vasquez #24943
1959 Coupe Deville http://bit.ly/1XkRuZc
1994 Fleetwood  http://bit.ly/1OTqOf1