Good-bye Pontiac

Started by David #19063, November 27, 2008, 11:39:02 AM

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Johnny

Here's the latest update from todays NY Times.

To make its case for the loans, G.M. said it would make top-to-bottom cuts in its money-losing North American operations.

G.M. said it planned to focus on four core brands â€" Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC â€" and sell, eliminate or consolidate the Saturn, Saab, Hummer and Pontiac brands.

David #19063

Maybe GM would be smart and consolidate Pontiac with Olds and maybe on have one, maybe two specialty models each...something that is different than Buick and Chevy?
David #19063
1996 DeVille Concours

Johnny

Quote from: David #19063 on December 03, 2008, 05:03:00 PM
Maybe GM would be smart and consolidate Pontiac with Olds and maybe on have one, maybe two specialty models each...something that is different than Buick and Chevy?

Are you suggesting resurrecting the Oldsmobile?  What would the car be called?  The Pontmobile?  Oldsiac?  Personally I think that getting rid of Pontiac is the way to go.  Since they got rid of the Bonneville, GTO, Gran Prix, they gave up the performance niche, which is how they fit into the GM lineup.  With Chevrolet, Buick, and Cadillac, they can cover all markets.  Chevrolet has 17 models including the Corvette.  This can cover most needs of consumers in all price ranges.  Cadillac still remains the luxury division of GM.  Buick offers a luxury car that is a little more affordable then a Cadillac, and they bring along a luxury crossover the Enclave.  Lets face it people, the days of GM's dominance in the car market has been on steady decline, and now its time to make gut wrenching, hard decisions, and put tradition aside for survival.  Did you ever in your wildest dreams think that Cadillacs salvation would be in producing a truck?

David #19063

Yes, the nameplate for one or two models only, maybe the 98, Starfire, or 442.

Same for Pontiac, one or two models only, Bonneville, Starchief, Grand Prix, or Firebird/Trans Am.

Sold at a joint Oldsmobile / Pontiac Dealer.  Then GM can use these names and keep the heritage alive.

Like you said, Chevy has 17 models or whatever it is now, that is where GM is killing itself. 

Way too many models for each car line.  And when Chevy, Olds, and Pontiac had so many models, it got so watered down.  How many different Cutless models did they have in the mid-80's, a plethera if I remember correctly.

GM should looks back to the late 50's early 60's when it had only a few car designs for each car line.  But each car line was different from each other.  No one would mistake a '59 Cadillac from a '59 Buick from a '59 Pontiac from a '59 Olds or '59 Chevy.

GM needs to make fewer cars but make them better.

Kind of like very nice restaurants have small menu's with superb food.  As opposed to places where you can get 500 different meals 24 hours a day and they are all mediocre at best and some downright lousy meals.

Totally make Olds and Pontiac niche market cars.

I don't think I am explaining this well as I desire to describe it.
David #19063
1996 DeVille Concours

XGLEGAL

Personally, I hope Pontiac does not go the way of Olds, especially because I am seriously considering a G8 GT.  If something HAS to go, I think Pontiac should stay and eliminate Buick instead - at least here in the USA, Pontiac has a broader product offering.  Buick has essentially three models??  (LaCrosse, Lucerne and Enclave if I am not mistaken).  All nice cars, but very limited - and the demographic of Buick sedan buyers is constantly decreasing due to the march of time.....
  Buick appears to be big in some overseas markets such as China, and this is obviously a big consideration at the corporate level.  But just what is the reason for existence (raison d' etre'??!!) of Buick in the US market??  As for Pontiac, efforts have been steered to make it more of a performance division, and I think many of its current models attest to this.  The G8 GT, for instance, is a performance monster at an incredibly compelling price in my view.  Although made in Australia, it is still GM.  In short, I see Pontiac being able to play the role of a legitimate alternative to Chevy for some buyers who prefer a sportier car on performance/appearance.  This is an area where GM can appeal to a younger buyer, because Buick certainly doesn't have any entry-level models.
  The other question in my mind is the rationale for the elimination of brands as far as the dealerships are concerned.  At least here in SoCal, the majority of the dealers are organized as GMC/Buick/Pontiac - I have no idea about other parts of the country.  But I would see some serious problems for a dealer having just GMC and Buick.
     I found this thread interesting and look forward to the comments of others.  Regards, Xavier
Xavier A. Gutierrez, Esq.  CLC # 24068
_______________________________________________________
1959 CDV (2)
1957 Ser. 62 Coupe
1957 Eldo Brougham
1957 Ser. 62 Conv.
1957 Eldo Biarritz
1957 CDV
1961 Ser. 62 Conv.

Johnny

Quote from: David #19063 on December 03, 2008, 11:12:10 PM
Yes, the nameplate for one or two models only, maybe the 98, Starfire, or 442.

Same for Pontiac, one or two models only, Bonneville, Starchief, Grand Prix, or Firebird/Trans Am.


I see where you are going, and with all due respect, "retro" is not the way to go to keep competitive.  Keep in mind that these names are only significant to us older buyers, not to today's younger buyers.

QuoteSold at a joint Oldsmobile / Pontiac Dealer.  Then GM can use these names and keep the heritage alive.

Again, history and heritage is passe.  Even Nipper the dog, who had his beginnings with Edison has faded away.

QuoteLike you said, Chevy has 17 models or whatever it is now, that is where GM is killing itself.

Not really as there is not redundancy with the models. 

QuoteWay too many models for each car line.  And when Chevy, Olds, and Pontiac had so many models, it got so watered down.  How many different Cutlass models did they have in the mid-80's, a plethora if I remember correctly.

Once again that was in the past, when GM was still the king of auto manufacturers.  As time went by and GM lost market share, they began to dissolve models and finally an entire division, Oldsmobile.

QuoteGM should looks back to the late 50's early 60's when it had only a few car designs for each car line.  But each car line was different from each other.  No one would mistake a '59 Cadillac from a '59 Buick from a '59 Pontiac from a '59 Olds or '59 Chevy.

We can't go back to the future.  First of all, there was only one design for each line.  A Chevy Biscayne looked like a Impala, except for the extra trim the Impala had.  Also keep in mind that back then there were really only 3 manufactures that the public bought cars from, GM, Ford and Chrysler.  Today the choices of manufacturers is much greater, so much so, that you don't hear the terms, "foreign cars" and "the imports" used anymore.         


QuoteGm needs to make fewer cars but make them better.

Wait a minute, first you want them to resurrect the Oldsmobile, and now you want them to make fewer cars!  Which way do you want it?  As for be better, from everything I read, American cars are just as good as the "imports"

QuoteKind of like very nice restaurants have small menu's with superb food.  As opposed to places where you can get 500 different meals 24 hours a day and they are all mediocre at best and some downright lousy meals.

Not necessarily apples with apples, but I will go with the flow.  Yes nice restaurants have small menus, sort of like Rolls Royce and Bentley has, but for the vast majority of of car buyers, they have to eat at the Waffle House, which by the way, has some really great waffles.

QuoteTotally make Olds and Pontiac niche market cars.

And what niche would that be?  Myself I think GM has to be more concerned with selling cars to average car buyers, then worry about niches.

QuoteI don't think I am explaining this well as I desire to describe it.

I think I get the gist of what you are trying to say, and yes it would nice to return to the good old days, but this is the 21st century, and like the saying goes "You can't go home again".

Johnny

Quote from: XGLEGAL on December 04, 2008, 03:16:08 AM
Personally, I hope Pontiac does not go the way of Olds, especially because I am seriously considering a G8 GT.  If something HAS to go, I think Pontiac should stay and eliminate Buick instead - at least here in the USA, Pontiac has a broader product offering.  Buick has essentially three models??  (LaCrosse, Lucerne and Enclave if I am not mistaken).  All nice cars, but very limited - and the demographic of Buick sedan buyers is constantly decreasing due to the march of time.....

Yes, Pontiac has a broader product line, and I suspect that is their problem.  They just help GM to be overweight in products.  I have to admit to being somewhat surprised to hear that GM was considering getting rid of Pontiac, as the common belief was that Buick was the one to go.  I am just guessing, but maybe the powers to be, think that with Buick only having 3 models, they are the one to keep.  Like I posted before, their sedans are nice fit in between a Chevy and a Cadillac, and while I might tend to agree that Buick's styling and appeal might have been declining, I think in recent years that have designed their cars to be more appealing.


 
QuoteBuick appears to be big in some overseas markets such as China, and this is obviously a big consideration at the corporate level.  But just what is the reason for existence (raison d' etre'??!!) of Buick in the US market??  As for Pontiac, efforts have been steered to make it more of a performance division, and I think many of its current models attest to this.  The G8 GT, for instance, is a performance monster at an incredibly compelling price in my view.  Although made in Australia, it is still GM.  In short, I see Pontiac being able to play the role of a legitimate alternative to Chevy for some buyers who prefer a sportier car on performance/appearance.  This is an area where GM can appeal to a younger buyer, because Buick certainly doesn't have any entry-level models.

Here's where I show my age.  Yes while the G8's are performance cars, to me they pale in comparison to the Bonnevilles, Gran Prix's, GTO's and even the 2+2's of the past.
 

QuoteThe other question in my mind is the rationale for the elimination of brands as far as the dealerships are concerned.  At least here in SoCal, the majority of the dealers are organized as GMC/Buick/Pontiac - I have no idea about other parts of the country.  But I would see some serious problems for a dealer having just GMC and Buick.
     I found this thread interesting and look forward to the comments of others.  Regards, Xavier

Ah dealerships!  Even the dealerships are feeling the pain inflicted by GMs failures.  I have been reading about more and more of them going under in recent history.  I think dealerships are going the way of the corner drugstore, with many dealerships sort of being part of a chain.  Not necessarily like Walgreens, but many dealerships are owned by the same organization.


Johnny

How about Pontiac? The sports-oriented brand in many ways is a clone of Chevy vehicles, but with different skins. Still, the ax could fall on it, just as GM rid itself of the Oldsmobile brand years ago (a brand the world has not missed at all). Both brands ended up being perceived as niche-y, and an automobile "for every purse and purpose" just won't cut it in 2009 going forward. Sorry, Alfred Sloan.