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1956 Gold Sabre wheels Kelsey Hayes #39796 on a 1957 Cadillac

Started by Bill Balkie 24172, October 16, 2008, 08:31:03 AM

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Bill Balkie 24172

Hello ,
  Is it possible to get these 1956 Gold wheels Kelsey Hayes part # 39796 to fit a 1957 cadillac .I understand a spacer might be  required ?  But i am not sure .  Someone also told me that the problem would only be on the front wheels . i have the opportunity to purchase these wheels, but i want to make sure i will be able to use them on my 1957 Seville .

Thanks ,
     Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Walter Youshock

Again, gold wheels were not an option for 1957-58 cars.  They were only available in 1956.  Attached is a copy from the Motor Manual with part numbers from 1962.

If you want to be completely sure they will fit, get a set of the correct chrome wheels and have them reanodized in gold.  Chances are they will have to be redone anyway.  From an authenticity standpoint, they would be considered incorrect.

CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Bill Balkie 24172

#2
Hello Walter ,
  I do understand they will not fit , my question is, how thick of a spacer will i need to make them work . And is that all i would  need to make them work?.

  Thanks,
 
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Warren Rauch

 I tried to use 55-56 wheels on my 57 Barritz when I first bought it.The rears do work fine. THe fronts are close enough that I got the the nuts to start. I carefully worked around the wheel circle one thread at a time untill tight. Then I tried to turn the wheel. It could not be turned. The brake drums on the front were bent and locked up solid. If you look at the wheel from the inside, you will see the aluminum part is riveted to the steel part. About a quarter inch inbound (toward the brake drum) from the rivets the aluminum is machined away a little more on the newer wheels, this gives the needed clearance. To look at them it appears this could be remachined on a lathe. BUT WOULD THE WHEEL BREAK ON THE CAR  BECAUSE OF IT ? Has anyone tried it? Warren

Walter Youshock

I wouldn't recommend grinding down rivets that hold a wheel together.  Anther factor is heat dissipation for the brake drum.  Reduced clearance between the drum and wheel can cause warpage or worse...
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Warren Rauch

 You are miss understanding my post. The rivets are just outside the area that needs modification. I have not tried it.  It may be very unsafe or it could be all Kelsey Hayes did. Warren

Walter Youshock

#6
I no longer have my one sabre wheel and do not intend to become an authority on this issue.  The thread title remains:  "Re: 1956  Gold Sabre wheels Kelsey Hayes   #39796 on a 1957 Cadillac" and I feel we have adequately covered the topic.  Gold wheels were an available feature of the 1956 model year only.

If someone else with the experience of fitting early wheels to late cars would like to weigh in, I would appreciate the education.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Stampie

Quote from: Walter Youshock on October 17, 2008, 07:52:54 PM
The thread title remains:  "Re: 1956  Gold Sabre wheels Kelsey Hayes   #39796 on a 1957 Cadillac" and I feel we have adequately covered the topic.

What?  That's a pretty dismissive statement.  Does he have to join the Modified Chapter to please you before he puts the wheels on his car? 

I'm sorry Bill but some people cannot see the forest for the trees.  I wouldn't worry much about the size of the spacers as it should be cheap enough to experiment yourself and find out exactly.  Go to your local hardware store and buy about 20 plain washers that will fit over the stud size.  Start off with one washer per stud and see if the wheel will fit on.  I think you'll be between two and three washers per stud but make sure the wheel turns freely and it wouldn't really hurt to add an extra washer to make sure on the clearance.  Once you determine the number of washers required then measure their thickness and you have your answer. DO NOT, REPEAT DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR USING THE WASHERS.  They are a test only usage.

Stampie
If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.  ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.  ~Louis D. Brandeis

Roger Zimmermann

If I remember correctly, when a spacer is used on a 1957 or '58 car, the studs are too short and have to be replaced with longer ones.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

35-709

The chrome Sabres on my '60 coupe required 3/8" spacers on the front (found on eBay) and I had to replace the studs with longer ones.

1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Walter Youshock

"Dismissive"?  Sorry if it came off that way, but it DID get someone else to weigh in with the information Bill requested, didn't it!
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Bill Balkie 24172

Thanks to every one that gave there opinion , i have decided against the Gold Sabre wheels and i an sticking with the original ones  my car came with . Again this is what makes this site so great ,,
Quote from: Walter Youshock on October 20, 2008, 09:34:45 AM
"Dismissive"?  Sorry if it came off that way, but it DID get someone else to weigh in with the information Bill requested, didn't it!
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Walter Youshock

Bill,

So long as YOU are pleased with the responses you received. we are happy as well.  Plus, we all learned quite a bit about sabre wheels! 
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Ohio57-62Sedan

Quote from: Michael Stamps on October 17, 2008, 08:57:55 PM
What?  That's a pretty dismissive statement.  Does he have to join the Modified Chapter to please you before he puts the wheels on his car

Stampie

Jeez Stampie,,,Did you get your coffie yet??  Now come on, play nice...   >:D >:D >:D

Stan Baker

Hello guys.....I am not part of your club but a friend and customer of mine is....Ron Hershberger.     I have a 1957 that he has seen and I am parting it out.   I have the build sheet and it came with these wheels even had one in the trunk as a spare.     The center caps are missing but I see they are remade now.      Does anyone know what price range they are worth for the five wheels?      Thanks    Stan

Dan Koser

New to this forum, but the thread on the Sabre Wheels is just what I was looking for. I appreciated the idea of starting with washers as a test to determine the thickness of the wheel spacers (spacers available from Summit, Jegs, etc)....I perhaps understand the reluctance to answer in order not to be blamed if one of the dire predictions actually comes to pass, but at the same time, I'd just want the informaiton so I could decide. Has anyone ever actually heard of the failures alluded to in earlier posts in this thread? I haven't.

I have the '56 Sabre wheels, and intend to chrome plate them, use spacers and install longer lugs to accomodate the thicker assembly. Once that's done and I've had some real life experience with them, I'll follow up with an update.

My name is Dan Koser and I have a 1957 Series 62 2-DR hardtop; It's just out of the paint booth, now comes more sanding and buffing and polishing, not to mention reassembly, but I feel good because I've saved this for my...and future...generations. Once I figure out how to add images, I'll do that as well. Regards,   Dan

Chris Conklin

Quote from: 35-709 on October 18, 2008, 09:34:38 AM
The chrome Sabres on my '60 coupe required 3/8" spacers on the front (found on eBay) and I had to replace the studs with longer ones.

Here's a thought on Cadillac styling based on your photo... In my mind, those old Sabres are too modern for a 1960 car. Not saying it's a bad look or a good look (to each his own). Just that there is something about them. I think it's the fact that they're a "modern type alloy wheel" and I'm used to seeing a wheel cover over a rim. It's too clean a line where the wheel meets the tire. Anyway... just rambling... thanks...
Chris Conklin

J Kjerrulf

Dan
This link to a thread in the modified chapter may be of help:

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/forum/index.php/topic,5128.15.html

On P2 you'll find a pic of the 1" spacer I still use up front, cadillac also offered a spacer of their own during the 50's
/J Kjerrulf
Eldorado Seville 1957

Quentin Hall

I didn't realise this was an old thread until I got to the end but anyhow I may as well say that years ago I did infact manage to machine the offending inner edge from the 55 56 sabres to suit 57 front drums. Actually I went to the local machine shop and they put it on a big lathe and we copied the chamfer of the 57 style. But it worked and I never had any problem with binding brake drums or extended studs or shims or washers et al . . . .
   Where there is a wallet, there's a way. Q
53 Eldo #319
53 Eldo #412.
53 Eldo #433
57 Biarritz
53 series 62 conv
39 Sixty Special Custom
57 Biarritz

Dan Koser

All good information...thanks! Interesting that Cadillac used spacers; tells me this is not a safety issue. I can see the front end geometry being affected some, but the alignment shop I use should be able to dial it in correctly. Getting the car back together and the wheels on with proper modificaitons is going to take me a few months....but my goal is to go to "Crusin' Grand" here in Escondido, Ca. Every Friday night between April and September, the old main street, Grand Avenue, is a fantastic fun place to be. Great old cars everywhere, families walking the dog, admiring the beautiful paint jobs, the sound of strong V-8's and the smell of kettle corn....the whole works. Pretty neat throw back to a special time. Anyway, that's my goal, and I'll follow up with pictures of the wheels, etc, as time allows. Best,   Dan