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Technical Question 56 Cad 365

Started by jeff1956, April 14, 2009, 10:32:37 PM

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jeff1956

I'm having an issue with my 56 Sixty Special w/single rochester carb.   I have purchased a kit from my local classic cadillac restorer, which happens to be a kit from daytona and the carb will be rebuilt tomorrow.  Anyways, back to my question....in removing the carb tonight to have it rebuilt I have noticed that one set of butterflies were stuck closed.  After messing with the linkage I finally got them working again, not as good as the other set, but I'm sure the rebuilder will fix that.  I have no idea how long they have been stuck closed....but it may have been contributing to another problem I was having with the car.  I was told that by those two butterflies not working that it could have been contributing to the slight overheating issue I was having with my car(running up to halfway on temp gauge or a lil higher).  This issue did not happen every time I drove the car....but 2 or 3 out of 5 times it did occur when I drove it.  So, could this actually have caused the intermittent overheating issue?  I know the radiator is free flowing and there are no issues w/coolant intermingling with oil and vise versa, and there is no head gasket issue.  This issue was baffling me b/c everything checked out fine...until I found this when removing the carb.  The carb is in need of a rebuild anyways due to the fact that some of the parts internally are worn and was evidentally seeping and I never noticed it, but then a few days ago it turned into a stream......so does this sound right or was I told wrong?  The butterflies that were stuck closed were the rear set if you're looking at the carb while installed on the engine.

Roger H

Hello,
the secondarys being stuck would cause a loss of power,  poor acceleration and possibly a stumble when you step on the gas but  probably not overheating.
Roger Hundtoft
1936 Fleetwood 8509
Lynnwood Wa

kelly

Roger,
  I magree with the last post, even with stuck secondaries, overheating wold not be an issue...unless the butterfly and/orshaft were allowing extra air into the fuel mixture.  This would only happen at light throttle settings, as in moderate throttle use.  But, again, that is a bit of a stretch.
  The issue with your carb reman is to ensure you don't have leakage around the old butterfly shafts after the rebuild. If the secondary shaft was siezed up, it will have corroded and may have excess vacuum bypass.  Make sure your carb builder is aware of the issue.
   Once you have a fresh carb back on the car, reset all the specs for idle, timing, dwell, etc. in the order prescribed by the manual. Check vacuum on the entire system. If everything is on the money and you are still running too hot, it's all about the cooling system.
Kelly Martin
Kelly Martin
1957 Fleetwood 75
2008 DTS

jeff1956

#3
The choke on the carb is set at 7 ticks on the lean side of the dial....this car was a high altitude car(boulder, colorado) when I  bought it.....it ran well enough so I never thought to check the settings....according to my shop manual it says to set it at one notch towards rich.....running too lean in a lower climate could be the culprit?  as this allows the engine to run too lean therefor causing it to heat up more?  I don't drive this car as much as i'd like to b/c i cant trust that it won't run warmer than i'd like it to.  I will get the carb rebuilt and set it to manual spec and hopefully this will fix the issue.....i haven't been able to find a shop in my area that's been able to get a core built for a 56 radiator...so i'm running with the original 53 year old unit..... :( If i could find a core and have it shipped here then I'd be all set...lol...btw this is where the gas leaked from...the secondary shaft....(modified note: it started leaking due to a faulty needle valve.....and was trying to flood out)  i usually tap on it(the carb) and it will start working again, i've also taken the top off and cleaned everything and reassembled..however this time, I decided on a carburetor rebuild.....i've had the car for going on a lil over 9 years....and i have never rebuilt the carb..and I don't have any receipts for it having ever been rebuilt....) I feel kinda dumb for not checking the settings all these years......lol don't gimme too much flack please.

Jeff

35-709

The choke setting will have nothing to do with the car running too lean except possibly at initial start-up when the engine is cold.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Walter Youshock

In all this time, did you ever drain the coolant from the engine block?  The lower jackets can fill up with so much crud.  I had to use an ice pick just to get coolant to start flowing from the drains.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

kelly

Jeff,
  Another way to go if you do something with the carb, is to get a reman on exchange. I bought one from  usapartssupply.com  about 4 years. Cost was about $250. Works great.
Kelly
Kelly Martin
1957 Fleetwood 75
2008 DTS

jeff1956

i have not drained the block....i have thought about it and this will probably be my next step....i know this issue isnt going to go away as mysteriously as it came.

jeff1956

sorry to double post...the carb is being rebuilt as we speak...hopefully once its back on and factory tuned...ill be in good shape as far as fuel delivery goes.

Walter Youshock

I'd really consider draining the block.  I was shocked when I did it on my '91 Brougham that had 45,000 miles on it.  Since these cars sit and sit, they rust and goop up.  The '57 wasn't a total surprise, but having to drill through the sediment was a bit unnerving.

They're like people--if you don't exercise, you get mud in your blood.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

jeff1956

Well, I got my freshly rebuilt carburetor back on the car tonight and I must say the car has never ran better since I've owned it...the best part..there's no river of gasoline on top of my engine.  The gentlemen who rebuilt it was a GM mechanic in the 1960's and knew all about this carburetor.  I offered the service manual and he told me he didn't really need it, but that he'd take it just in case.  When I picked it up he told me that he had set everything to spec and all I had to do was bolt it up.  I must say...he knew what he was doing b/c she's never ran better in the 9 or so years that I've owned her.  The cost wasn't bad either:  60.00 for the rebuild kit and 75.00 labor.  Now onto the radiator and cleaning out the water passages in the block. 

Jeff

Otto Skorzeny

That's excellent. $135 - you can't beat that with a stick.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

D.Yaros

Quote from: jeff1956 on April 16, 2009, 12:49:44 AM
Well, I got my freshly rebuilt carburetor back on the car tonight and I must say the car has never ran better since I've owned it

Jeff

Care to share the contact info for your carb expert?  Others (me) may want to avial themselves of his expertise.  Just a thought?
Dave Yaros
CLC #25195
55 Coupe de Ville
92 Allante
62 Olds  

You will find me on the web @:
http://GDYNets.atwebpages.com  -Dave's Den
http://graylady.atwebpages.com -'55 CDV site
http://www.freewebs.com/jeandaveyaros  -Saved 62 (Oldsmobile) Web Site
The home of Car Collector Chronicles.  A  monthly GDYNets newsletter focusing on classic car collecting.
http://www.scribd.com/D_Yaros/

Carfreak

Quote from: D.Yaros on April 16, 2009, 10:32:52 AM
Care to share the contact info for your carb expert?  Others (me) may want to avial themselves of his expertise. 


I was just going to ask the same.   :)
Enjoy life - it has an expiration date.

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Jeff,
Aside from everything else, if the carb was re jetted for high altitude it might be a tad too lean for sea level if that is where you are at.  Less Oxygen at higher altitudes means that you can combine less fuel with a fixed amount of air so the jets need to be leaner.  When you bring that car down to sea level, there is more Oxygen but less fuel combining with the air, so it runs too lean.  Don't look for problems, but if after you have checked out your cooling system thoroughly the car runs too hot, or hesitates upon acceleration, the problem may be the jetting.
Greg
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

jeff1956

i will have to get his info as i dont have it readily available.  his name is steve.  he set the carb for sea level and ive been driving her today...its around 80. i saw something i havent seen in a long time..the gauge moving backwards...usually it just keeps climbing...the issue couldve been the altitude settings and the jets.  so far so good..ill post his contact info tonight....he doesnt supply the kits so those would have to be supplied with your carb...if u were wanting him to do the work. 

jeff

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Jeff,
Not to beat a dead horse, but to offer some information, the "high altitude " carbs, and they have distinct part numbers, had internal jets and rods that differed from standard to accomplish what needed to be done to compensate for the atmospheric differences.  There might be a few "adjustments to the linkages, etc. , but IF the carb was originally a high altitude device and the internals weren't changed, it still might be a tad lean for sea level.
Greg
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

jeff1956

the mans name is steve...he owns steves auto service in paragould arkansas. his number is 8702362034.  ill look and see if my carb is a true high altitude carb...if so i may be replacing it with a rebuilt standard rochester off a junk car.  if so i may have a freshly rebuilt high altitude carb....but will need to be reset for altutude....ill keep all you rocky mountain guys informed if ur interested.

Otto Skorzeny

If you're going to switch carbs on your '56, I'd try to find a correct Carter WCFB instead of the Rochester. Both were used but I believe the Carter gives better performance.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE