News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

Cadillac 390 /429 engine bolts

Started by Sam, April 26, 2009, 02:48:00 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sam

I am really hoping some one here can help me out. I have a 1967 cdv conv. The engine casting number is 1485158, which I believe is a 429. However the previous owner stated it was a 472. I dont know. But my question is this. If the 429 was simply a bored and stroked 390, will an engine bolt kit for a 390 work on the 429? Common sense says yes, however there doesnt seem to be alot of parts available for the  429 and I am running out of money and do not have the cash to buy /build a whole new engine because of lack of parts. Thank you so much for your time.

Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397

Quote from: Sam on April 26, 2009, 02:48:00 PM
I have a 1967 cdv conv. The engine I believe is a 429. However the previous owner stated it was a 472.

Sam,  The only part of your post that I definitely know the answer to is above.  All 1967 Cadillacs had the 429 which came out on the '64 models and was an enlarged version of the re-engineered 1963 390 (the '59-'62 390's were based on the original 1949 331 OHV V-8).  The 472 is a completely different engine which was introduced for 1968.

Warren Rauch

I looked this up in a guide put out by the Production Engine Remanufactures Association. They list block # 1435158 as 1965 Cadillac exc series 75. The 3,I think should be an 8. There doesn't appear to be any other numbers near your number and casting numbers are usally issued near one another for an engine.The heads are # 1481395,crank is 1481021 or 1486340.
For 472 engines they list 1486238 (68-69),1495200 (70-74) . The 500 engine used those  2 castings and 1494300.
The correct casting for 1967 (and 66) is 1482586, heads 1485240 and crank same as 65. Warren

Sam

Wow. Thanks for all the info guys. I really appreciate it! Warren you are correct on my heads the casting number is 1488240. So I assume I have 67 429 heads and a 65 429 block? Either way its the same thing. Now, do you know if a engine bolt kit for a 390 will work on a 429 being that they are basically the same block? Especially the head bolts. I really want to replace every bolt I can. Or do you know of any mfgs that have an engine bolt kit?

Sam

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Sam, with all due respect, I think that there's a lot more important things to address on that overhaul than bolts. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

35-709

#5
Engine head bolts and engine overhaul parts for 429s should be available from Egge Machine --- www.egge.com --- or Terrill Machine

Terrill Machine
Route 2, Box 61
De Leon, Texas 76444
254-893-2610

NAPA can supply you with a complete 429 overhaul gasket set.  You shouldn't have trouble getting parts and pieces specifically for 429s.  Engine bolts for the 390 may be the same for the 429, I do not know, but the 429 is not JUST a bored and stroked 390, there are other differences.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Sam

Bob, yeah thanks. I got all that covered. When I rebuild a motor I do it right. Im not going to use old stretched out and sometimes BROKEN bolts on a completely rebuilt motor. I have rebuilt the heads, ported and polished them, matched the intake and exhaust, decked and machined the block, purchased new pistons, rings and bearings. As well as everything else that could be done. So yeah, you are right. If its not broke, don't fix it, just wait for it to break. I would rather not. Thanks. Geoff, thank you so much for the suggestions. I will look at those companies right away. Thank you for your time.

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Sam,
I was just a bit curious as to how you did all the work, bought all the parts, did all the machining and weren't sure of whichengine you had?  There is only about 170/1000 difference in the bore of the 429 vs. 472, 1/4 inch difference in the crank pin diameters, and just about nothing interchangeable between the two.  Meaning no disrespect but come on Sam what's up?
Greg
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Sam

Good question! The machine shop did all the work after I had everything disassembled. As stated before, I was pretty sure it was a 429, but after being told it was a 472 by the original owner I had my doubts. The machine shop ordered the new pistons (10 over) and fit them with new rings and pressed all the bearings in for me. I just was curious about making sure I had the right engine when looking for parts! Any idea on if the bolts from a 390 will fit on a 429? Thanks!

Sam

The Tassie Devil(le)

One thing with these engines compared with the new ones is that all bolts are re-useable.

Unless you have lost them, then there is no reason to replace them for a normal re-build.

Bruce. >:D

'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Sam

Thanks Bruce. I would normally agree. However during the disassembly there were a few that got bent / stripped, perhaps from being over torqued or worn in, and 3 that broke at the water pump (rusted through) , and 2 head bolts that just do not look very good. So I figured I would just replace everything I can!

The Tassie Devil(le)

Ah ha, I see your dilemma.

I just go to my fastening drawers and grab the size I need to do the job.

Sorry I cannot assist you.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Joe G.

I don't have my shop manuals or parts books with me right now, but I do remember that those headbolts on the 429 are an oddball size, not availible through normal vendors. They're something just a sixteenth or thirty-second under a normal  (3/8 or 1/2 or whatever) size. Check your shop manual!!!  I've seen it happen where an undersized dia. is accidentally used for replacement, and when final torque is put to it then the threads in the block strip out. Then you've got problems! 

   It's better to re-use the old bolts on a 429 unless you are darned SURE that the replacements are the right (GM) ones!!!!!

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Joe, you're absolutely correct. They're 13/32". A real oddball size & 4 different lengths to boot. It sounds like Sam's doing a first class job on the motor. I would suggest he take a careful look at the oil pump bore. If it's worn out his oil pressure will be low & might wipe out all the good work. I have the front aluminum cover with the oil pump in like new condition available. HTH, Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Sam

Joe, Bob, thank you very much for the tips and kind words. Its nice to know someone has a better way of explaining my dilema. I just recently found a 1967 shop manual online (original copy) and plan on really using it. According to a recent phone call ( one of 100 made) MR. Gasket actually makes nearly every bolt for the 7.0 liter 1967 cadillac 429 calais. Which I assume is the same as a deville? This is my first caddy and I am having fun just looking for parts. Bob, thank you very much for that tip. I will look at the bore very closely. It should be a snug even fit correct? Just like a chevy small block I assume. Thank you all so much for your help and advice.

Sam

Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397

Quote from: Sam on April 28, 2009, 02:09:24 AM
for the 7.0 liter 1967 cadillac 429 calais. Which I assume is the same as a deville?

Sam
They're almost the same.  The difference was that the De Ville had a higher-grade interior and more standard equipment and only the De Ville came as a convertible. 

35-709

The engines were the same for all models in 1967.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2