My new Eldorado!!!!

Started by Rick Biarritz, May 05, 2009, 07:54:50 AM

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Wynn Moore

Quote from: Mike Jones on May 08, 2009, 09:37:16 AM
You know, this sort of bothers me.

Every time anyone makes a post about any HT4100 equipped car, no matter the post, there are always the fear mongers that have to replay about the reliability issues of the engine. That no doubt scares the bejeebers out of the poor guy with the car.

The fact being that these were the worse engines every made by Cadillac, doesn't justify all the accurate posts concerning the engine?

QuoteDon't you suppose that there is maybe a more diplomatic way of making all aware of the special concerns and maintenance requirements of these engines? Y'all make it sound as if total and catastrophic failure is imminent with anyone that has one of these cars.

Diplomatic way of telling someone that they most likely are headed for disaster?  Interesting.  I like the Don Coleone method of getting bad news.

"TOM

Thank you for the dinner and a very pleasant evening. If your car could take me to the

airport; Mr. Corleone is a man who insists on hearing bad news immediately."

[/quote] Many of these cars, particularly the earlier ones, have already had engine replacements,[/quote]

I disagree, I think most of them have already  had a date with the crusher, and the ones that are still around are in the waiting room.

Quoteand the later ones have had a number of fixes already in place. But that does not, nor will ever make up for poor maintenance. On this or any engine. Granted, there are still some around that may have problems and we should be aware of them.

And in a swift manner.

QuoteAnd I know I am leaving myself open for some lengthy diatribes about my remarks, but again I can make good on all my claims, as many here know I can. But I will choose not to.

Ah so you are self proclaimed pot stirrer?

QuoteIf any of you want to know the full scoop on this engine, just go to the HT4100 Exchange and read up.

Mike

Excellent advice.

My basic thoughts and opinions on this subject are, to quickly warn anyone that is contemplating purchasing a car with this engine, about its built to fail nature, and let them know what they most likely are in for.  For those that already have bought one of these cars with the engine, to offer them all the help and advice possible, such as the pellets etc.

One question you should ask yourself is, if you know everything you know about the engine now, would you buy one with the original engine?  I think the overwhelming answer would be a resounding NO.  Why would anyone want to buy a car that has a major history of greatly defective engine, which always requires a major output of money to rectify?

jeff1956

i think one would buy one bc theyll likely turn out like the packards, edsels, etc did. theyll become a major collectors item bc most will have been crushed...making them worth more

Otto Skorzeny

Rarity doesn't necessarily translate to higher value. In fact,it makes a vehicle less desirable in some cases.

More than 500,000 Mustangs were made the first year of their introduction. They are not rare buy any measure yet they are much more valuable and sought after than just about any post war Cadillac limousine whose production numbers might barely top 1000.

There aren't any Yugos around either. Does that mean they're the next big investment for car collectors? I think not.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

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wrefakis

I hate Ht 4100 cars!!!,but,I had a new 84 coupe that I punished for 72k,sold it to a guy who drove it every day till 2001,father in law had an 85 eldo till 110k,and I know of a guy personally that drove a 1984 sedan deville 430k miles in taxi service on one engine! (fact,really) so,who knows!

Rick Biarritz

Did ALL the Eldorados from 83-85 have the 4100?

Wynn Moore

Quote from: Rick Biarritz on May 08, 2009, 08:44:48 PM
Did ALL the Eldorados from 83-85 have the 4100?

No, some had diesel engines.

homeonprunehill

Didn't the FORD'S around the mid-30's have aluminum heads. I never heard of any problem with them. Jim
USED,ABUSED AND MISUSED CADILLACS AND LA SALLES

Glen

I tend to agree with Mike Jones.  The anti HT4100 group comes on very strong when ever this engine is mentioned.  A little quiet discussion on the subject would be much more appropriate. 

I’ve never had any experience with these engines but when all the shouting dies down I see an engine that had problems from the factory, but the rebuilt and crate engines seem to be much more reliable then the originals.   

Glen
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Wynn Moore

Quote from: Glen on May 09, 2009, 03:56:38 AM
I’ve never had any experience with these engines but when all the shouting dies down I see an engine that had problems from the factory, but the rebuilt and crate engines seem to be much more reliable then the originals.   

What shouting?   All I see is folks giving straightforward "facts" concerning these engines.

Otto Skorzeny

I don't think there's an anti-HT400 group any more than there is a pro-HT400 group. People get excited about certain issues and this is one of them. The facts are still the facts regardless of who is presenting them or how they're presented.

Sure, there are exceptions to many of the horror stories about this engine but the fact remains that it is much more prone to serious trouble than just about any other modern engine you could think of.

It's a shame such an engine was installed in what could have been a hugely popular collector car.Those Eldorados were some of the best looking cars of the era.


fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

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Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397

Quote from: homeonprunehill on May 09, 2009, 01:56:13 AM
Didn't the FORD'S around the mid-30's have aluminum heads. I never heard of any problem with them. Jim
You're right, Ford V-8's of that era (as well as the similar Lincoln-Zephyr V-12)  did have aluminum heads and from what I've read,  they would often become stuck to the cast iron block and were difficult, if not impossible, to remove, but the HT4100's heads are cast iron.   

Wynn Moore

Quote from: ottoskorzeny on May 09, 2009, 09:02:39 AM
It's a shame such an engine was installed in what could have been a hugely popular collector car.Those Eldorados were some of the best looking cars of the era.

So very true.

Rick Biarritz

Is there any way to tell if my engine is a replacement?

Guidematic


The easiest way is to look at the rocker covers. The Goodwrench engines all came with cast aluminum covers, and all 1982-83 HT4100s came from the factory with chrome rocker covers. But if yours still has chrome covers, and want to check further, there are other clues.

Second design intake manifold bolts utilised spring washers. That was included with all new engines, but could have been upgraded in the field with original engines.

To tell for sure, look at the engine number plate. It's attached by rivets to the left side of the bell housing. An original engine will have the vehicle's VIN number as the last 6 digits, a replacement engine, as in a new Goodwrench, will not.

Mike
1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1985 Eldorado Coupe 6EL57
1988 Eldorado Biarritz 6EL57
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69

Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397

#34
Since there were several GM 5.7 diesel class-action lawsuits, I wondered why I had never seen anything about one for the HT4100.  There was at least one and if you go to the address below, the man who filed it (himself a former HT4100 owner) explains in detail all of the shortcomings in engineering and casting the engine had and what they led to.  The lawsit was settled out of court. He also wrote a book about the engine which is referenced in the article, but is out of print and difficult to find. Be sure to read the comments about the article below it.
The article recounts how common HT4100 replacements were in the 1980's, but they went on en mass for years after that.  Shortly after I bought a '92 Sedan Deville, I had it in the dealership for a minor warranty repair.  It was in the service department next to a very well-cared-for 1984 SDV which had about 60,000 miles on it.  The work order had these two notations:  "Customer says knock in engine" and "Replace engine".  By that time, apparently, and even with a relatively low mileage engine, the dealership didn't even bother to tear those engines down to see where the knock was coming from, they just replaced them any time any of the symptoms of HT4100itis showed up.

www.carsurvey.org/reviews/cadillac/seville/r29163/comments   

Otto Skorzeny

I was just wondering if there is any drop in replacement engine that will work without cutting, welding, fabricating, etc?

I don't own one of these cars nor do I ever intend to. I was just curious if you have to replace an HT400 anyway, is there a substitute that will easily fit and mate with the transmission - or another engine/transmission combo that will work?
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

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Rick Biarritz

Fabulous question.  That's what I want to know.

Rick Biarritz

Quote from: Mike Jones on May 09, 2009, 12:23:52 PM
The easiest way is to look at the rocker covers. The Goodwrench engines all came with cast aluminum covers, and all 1982-83 HT4100s came from the factory with chrome rocker covers. But if yours still has chrome covers, and want to check further, there are other clues.

Second design intake manifold bolts utilised spring washers. That was included with all new engines, but could have been upgraded in the field with original engines.

To tell for sure, look at the engine number plate. It's attached by rivets to the left side of the bell housing. An original engine will have the vehicle's VIN number as the last 6 digits, a replacement engine, as in a new Goodwrench, will not.

Mike

Dumb question maybe, but what do you mean by the "bell housing"?  The only BH I know of is not on the engine block.  Am I being dense?

Chris Conklin

Quote from: Glen on May 09, 2009, 03:56:38 AMThe anti HT4100 group comes on very strong when ever this engine is mentioned.  A little quiet discussion on the subject would be much more appropriate. 

A voice of dissension, and to just be controversial and play the devil's advocate  >:D: I haven't any personal ownership experience with this engine but have heard all the issues about them since they were only weeks old. But it seems to me that an engine that has lasted 26 years and traveled quite a few miles can't be too bad an engine. It may have cost a bit much or required more diligence to achieve this life span, but it's been achieved and in this case is in a car that is still very much in marketable condition. I don't know that I could complain about that very much.
Chris Conklin

Otto Skorzeny

Rick, please post some photos of your car that has generated such a long discussion.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

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