Author Topic: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.  (Read 9230 times)

Offline Christopher Petti

  • CLC# 25196
  • Posts: 203
1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« on: July 26, 2009, 06:32:56 PM »
I saw someone had a similar post if not the exact problem I am having. I freshly rebuilt the WCFB single four barrell carb on my 56 CDV. The engine now stalls out when I get to operating temp in park and loses a lot of fluid out the passenger side of the throttle body. I used to have the old metal pins that weighted the floats but now I put in the rubber tipped ones and readjusted the floats. Seems to have made things worse. Actually before I messed with the floats I wasn't stalling at all. Is this a float issue? I'm thinking of putting the metal pins back in and taking out the rubber tipped ones that came with the rebuild kit.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Offline Dave Shepherd

  • Posts: 2426
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2009, 08:17:52 PM »
Sounds like float level issue, either the needle and seat are the wrong ones ( the seat length can be an issue in some kits) or the many float adjustments required may have left the float hanging up on the main body, I have seen both of these conditions in the many WCFB's I have done. Gotta take it apart and go thru the set ups carefully. This assumes normal fuel pressures of course.

Offline kelly

  • Posts: 169
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2009, 10:30:04 PM »
I put a reman Rochester 4 Jet on my 57, and after a short period of time I had a serious flooding problem that also showed up outside the carb. On inspection, one of the floats had liquid in it that could be heard when shook. Made the float ride too low in the bowl, and steadily flood the engine after cold start. Check it out. If you have a similar condition, I will talk you through the cheap fix.
  Remember, if the float has fluid in it, it is gasoline. DO NOT put a flame to it to dry it out.
Kelly Martin
Kelly Martin
1957 Fleetwood 75
2008 DTS

Offline Christopher Petti

  • CLC# 25196
  • Posts: 203
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2009, 10:43:20 PM »
Sounds like float level issue, either the needle and seat are the wrong ones ( the seat length can be an issue in some kits) or the many float adjustments required may have left the float hanging up on the main body, I have seen both of these conditions in the many WCFB's I have done. Gotta take it apart and go thru the set ups carefully. This assumes normal fuel pressures of course.

Do you know what I'm referring too though? When I opened my WCFB for the rebuild it had these needles in there that weren't brass and had blunt ends. They were steel or something with a good weight. The also didn't have a rubber tip. I was told by a friend of a friend that I should put in the needles with the rubber tips because they are longer ( the ones that came in the rebuild kit) and will shut off the gas. I will take it apart again and see if I can't figure this out. Everything seems to be in good shape when I do my measurements. I'm confused at this point. I'll go over it again and see if I can't figure this one out.

I did just replace the Fuel pump. I guess I should check the pressure it's putting out.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Offline Christopher Petti

  • CLC# 25196
  • Posts: 203
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2009, 10:47:40 PM »
I put a reman Rochester 4 Jet on my 57, and after a short period of time I had a serious flooding problem that also showed up outside the carb. On inspection, one of the floats had liquid in it that could be heard when shook. Made the float ride too low in the bowl, and steadily flood the engine after cold start. Check it out. If you have a similar condition, I will talk you through the cheap fix.
  Remember, if the float has fluid in it, it is gasoline. DO NOT put a flame to it to dry it out.
Kelly Martin

Kelly,
  I checked for gas in the floats today and got nothing. So I'm secure there. It's just weird. As soon as I shut the engine off it takes about a little less than ten seconds. Then on the passenger side of the throttle body it just comes out all aover the manifold. I'm going to take it apart again when I get it back from the mechanic who's changing my bushing tomorrow and see if I can't figure this out. I'll see if I can't go over every instruction as carefully as I can.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Offline Christopher Petti

  • CLC# 25196
  • Posts: 203
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2009, 10:56:03 PM »
I'm asking on this website because I looked on the rest of the internet and I found the dumbest solutions. I would like to share some of them because I was laughing at some.

1. Throw it away and buy a new one
2. They weren't meant to be rebuilt, the cleaning solution disolves the film on the metal that goes inbetween the metal on metal bores.
3. Gasoline of today is known to make the engine seem like it's flooding when it's really not in these old carburators. I think the person said that it was the ethanol in the Gas.

There were plenty more solutions, I also talked with a friend of a friend that used to rebuild carbs for a living so I'm sure these are just hocus pocus.

But the problem I was having was starting the engine after it was warmed up. I used to just pump it twice and turn the key. Now I have to put my foot all the way down on the foot throttle and crank it for about 5 seconds before it fires up (acts like it's flooded). Weird! I'm learning.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Offline kelly

  • Posts: 169
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2009, 11:41:02 PM »
If it acts like it is flooded, odds are it is. If a loaded float is not the problem, the I would guess the float level adjustment is. The new rubber tipped floats require less leverage pressure from the float to seal the fuel input than did the solid brass ones.
  Keep it simple. If the car is turned off and the carb visably floods, the residual fuel line pressure is probably the reason. The shut-off for this is the float needle valve.  Set the float-full level slightly lower than you have it on the side that is flooding and see what happens. I would guess about an 1/8 of an inch should prove the case. If that fixes it, leave it be. If not, I would more suspect the needle seat (unless it is also new) than the rubber tipped needle valve. If it continues to flood, yell loudly.
Kelly Martin
Kelly Martin
1957 Fleetwood 75
2008 DTS

Offline jaxops

  • Mark Monaghan
  • Posts: 648
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2009, 08:19:00 AM »
If it acts like it is flooded, odds are it is. If a loaded float is not the problem, the I would guess the float level adjustment is. The new rubber tipped floats require less leverage pressure from the float to seal the fuel input than did the solid brass ones.
  Keep it simple. If the car is turned off and the carb visably floods, the residual fuel line pressure is probably the reason. The shut-off for this is the float needle valve.  Set the float-full level slightly lower than you have it on the side that is flooding and see what happens. I would guess about an 1/8 of an inch should prove the case. If that fixes it, leave it be. If not, I would more suspect the needle seat (unless it is also new) than the rubber tipped needle valve. If it continues to flood, yell loudly.
Kelly Martin
...and be careful about gasoline dripping or leaking on a hot manifold!  Be overly cautious about it and keep a fire extinguisher handy. 
1970 Buick Electra Convertible
1956 Cadillac Series 75 Limousine
1949 Cadillac Series 75 Imperial Limousine
1979 Lincoln Continental
AACA, Cadillac-LaSalle Club #24591, ASWOA

Offline Christopher Petti

  • CLC# 25196
  • Posts: 203
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2009, 08:44:36 AM »
If it acts like it is flooded, odds are it is. If a loaded float is not the problem, the I would guess the float level adjustment is. The new rubber tipped floats require less leverage pressure from the float to seal the fuel input than did the solid brass ones.
  Keep it simple. If the car is turned off and the carb visably floods, the residual fuel line pressure is probably the reason. The shut-off for this is the float needle valve.  Set the float-full level slightly lower than you have it on the side that is flooding and see what happens. I would guess about an 1/8 of an inch should prove the case. If that fixes it, leave it be. If not, I would more suspect the needle seat (unless it is also new) than the rubber tipped needle valve. If it continues to flood, yell loudly.
Kelly Martin

Needle seat and Needles are brand new. They all came in the rebuild kit. On my Carb the secondary floats hang a little lower than the primary, at this point i see what you are talking about because before the gas was leaking out the bore of the primary throttle on the passenger side. Now it seems to be pouring out the secondary bore of the passenger side. I should drop the float an 1/8 of an inch lower for the Secondary floats? I'll check the pressure too to see how many pounds of pressure it's putting out. What should I yell? HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!!
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Offline kelly

  • Posts: 169
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2009, 10:01:04 AM »
Yes, that will work!
Kelly
Kelly Martin
1957 Fleetwood 75
2008 DTS

Offline Christopher Petti

  • CLC# 25196
  • Posts: 203
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2009, 10:22:02 AM »
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Offline J. Gomez

  • Posts: 2377
  • CLC Number: 23082
  • Name: J. Gomez
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2009, 12:43:42 PM »
Christopher,

The shop manual indicates the fuel pump delivery pressure is between 4-6.5 PSI at idle speed.  There are also several carb repair sites that provide additional details and tech tips..!

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Offline Dave Shepherd

  • Posts: 2426
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2009, 01:29:27 PM »
I assume you have followed the complex float level and clearance settings as outlined in the o/h kit, no?

Offline Christopher Petti

  • CLC# 25196
  • Posts: 203
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2009, 01:38:36 PM »
Christopher,

The shop manual indicates the fuel pump delivery pressure is between 4-6.5 PSI at idle speed.  There are also several carb repair sites that provide additional details and tech tips..!

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm


Thanks Jose, I'll use this website. I have looked it over already. Do you really think that today's gas could be causing the car to hard start when it's warm?
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Offline Christopher Petti

  • CLC# 25196
  • Posts: 203
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2009, 01:42:01 PM »
I assume you have followed the complex float level and clearance settings as outlined in the o/h kit, no?

Dave,
  I measured everything and made all the adjustments needed to make the float levels correct. I don't understand what's happening right now. This fuel that leaks out the throttle body is puzzling because I don't know what's causing the flooding. Could it be the fuel pump? is it the needles not getting up high enough to shut off the fuel? I'm going to go at it a couple more days and and get this.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Offline walt chomosh #23510

  • Posts: 551
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2009, 03:09:19 PM »
Chris,
  May I ask where you bought your carburator kit?....walt...tulsa,ok

Offline Christopher Petti

  • CLC# 25196
  • Posts: 203
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2009, 03:31:34 PM »
Chris,
  May I ask where you bought your carburator kit?....walt...tulsa,ok

Kanter, I looked on Carter WCFB online and it looks like the same kit that they sell.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Offline Otto Skorzeny

  • Posts: 3853
  • 1956 Coupe de Ville aka Bismarck
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2009, 03:35:46 PM »
While everything is all disconnected, perform the fuel pump test described in the shop manual. It is very simple and precise. Too little or too much from the specified number of squirts means buy a new pump.

No sense getting your carb problem fixed and then having pump issues. Even if it's brand new, test it according to specs anyway.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

Offline J. Gomez

  • Posts: 2377
  • CLC Number: 23082
  • Name: J. Gomez
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2009, 03:44:37 PM »
Thanks Jose, I'll use this website. I have looked it over already. Do you really think that today's gas could be causing the car to hard start when it's warm?

Christopher,

I’m not sure if the new E10 fuel blend could be the cause of the hard starting in your particular case. There is tons of info out there and frankly I’m still unsure. I would leave it up to the experts to raise the issue; I’m just the nuts and bolt type of person..!

I’m not too familiar with the Carter carb; I have the Rochester 4GC in mine. The good thing about Rochester is there are two flush mount screws (primary and secondary bowls) that allowed inspecting the fuel level. From what I notice on the shop manual the Carter shows the same type of arrangement (Fig 10-51 Page 10-C-37). If these are accessible the fuel level should be below or at this level, this is the case for the Rochester.

I would suggest removing the carb and rechecked all adjustments. While at the bench you could test that floats are properly closing the flow into both bowls if you have a way to pump fluid (NO GASOLINE) into the carb. In my case I’ve used an electric 12V 5PSI fuel pump for that test. My rebuilt kit had the solid brass float needles, and if I recall one kit also included the seats.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Offline Christopher Petti

  • CLC# 25196
  • Posts: 203
Re: 1956 CDV Carter carb stalling and leaking fuel.
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2009, 03:45:18 PM »
While everything is all disconnected, perform the fuel pump test described in the shop manual. It is very simple and precise. Too little or too much from the specified number of squirts means buy a new pump.

No sense getting your carb problem fixed and then having pump issues. Even if it's brand new, test it according to specs anyway.

I'm going to take the top apart agian and see if I can't find out what the issue is. I'll test the pump and let you know what happens. I am going to figure this out. It's just annoying taking it off than putting it back on, then taking it off. 16 screws. What a pain! I'm sure it could be worse.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

 

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