Cash for Clunkers - current results

[David #19063]

Very interesting!


Top Cash for Clunkers Trade-Ins and New Cars

America has a lot fewer functioning Ford Explorers these days.

The number one vehicle destroyed under the Cash for Clunkers program, the Transportation Department says, was the Ford Explorer (1998 edition). Number two, the Ford Explorer (1997). Number Three...you guessed it. The '96 model.

The top eight, Jalopnik reports, were all SUVs. In fact, they were all various editions of the Ford Explorer and Jeep Grand Cherokee. A pair late ‘90s of minivans, the ‘97 Ford Windstar and '99 Dodge Grand Caravan, round out the top ten. All ten were domestic vehicles.

Domestics claimed a decent share of the new vehicle sales generated by the program as well. The Detroit News notes, "Detroit's automakers accounted for 47 percent of the first 80,000 ‘Cash for Clunkers' sales, the Obama administration said today...which is above their overall share in the auto market of about 45 percent." The top-selling vehicle under the program so far is the Ford Focus. "Four of the top 10-selling vehicles are manufactured by Detroit's Big Three. Of non-Big Three purchases, the Transportation Department's preliminary analysis suggests that more than half of these new vehicles were manufactured in the United States."

Autoblog adds, "White House spokesman Robert Gibbs says the average fuel economy increase so far is 9.4 mpg; a 61% increase." Based on the first 80,000 sales, "83% of the vehicles traded in have been trucks, while 60% of the vehicles purchased under the program have been cars."

The Top Ten Cash for Clunkers Trade-Ins:
1. 1998 Ford Explorer
2. 1997 Ford Explorer
3. 1996 Ford Explorer
4. 1999 Ford Explorer
5. Jeep Grand Cherokee
6. Jeep Cherokee
7. 1995 Ford Explorer
8. 1994 Ford Explorer
9. 1997 Ford Windstar
10. 1999 Dodge Caravan

The Top Ten Cash for Clunkers New Cars:
1. Ford Focus
2. Honda Civic
3. Toyota Corolla
4. Toyota Prius
5. Ford Escape
6. Toyota Camry
7. Dodge Caliber
8. Hyundai Elantra
9. Honda Fit
10. Chevy Cobalt

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1036/top-cash-for-clunkers-trade-ins-and-new-cars/;_ylc=X3oDMTFhOWVjYjU4BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawNjbHVua2VyLXRyYWRlcw--

[mgbeda]

Well that's a little bit of a relief.  I can do without the SUVs.  But I bet there some nice 80's Caddies getting crushed too.  Part of the reason I bought my '91 Brougham was to save it from this fate.  I even wrote my congressmen to try and stop this plan, but they didn't listen to me (go figure).  I wouldn't mind so much if they ended up being stripped for parts in junkyards (The cars, not the congressmen.  Who wants a stripped congressman?  Not me.) but no, they have to be immediately crushed or shredded.  What a waste.

-mB

[Jim Salmi #21340]

Interesting that the clunkers are disproportionately Fords.  Apparently the Fords aren't deemed worth saving by their owners, but a lot of those owners apparently are willing to forgive Ford and buy another one of their products anyway.

But, isn't it true that only the engine has to be destroyed?  I thought other mechanical components and body parts could be resold by the salvage dealers who will be taking these cars in from the dealerships.  I do agree that this is an absurd program on so many levels. 

[Otto Skorzeny]

Could it be that Fords are more durable and last longer and that there is a disproportionate number of old Fords to be traded in?

You're right. Every aspect of this asinine program stinks from every angle at which it is examined.

Not a single part is permitted to be re-used. All must be destroyed. 

This is so ecologically and environmentally destructive it makes your head spin. The environmental cost to produce a brand new vehicle from scratch to replace a perfectly serviceable one far exceeds the minute environmental benefit of a 2 - 3mpg increase in fuel economy. That doesn't even take into account the environmental benefits that will be lost forever with the destruction of perfectly good parts that cannot be used to keep similar cars on the road.

A huge decrease in the number of good used, affordable cars for students, poor people or those who like to live debt free will be lost.

Another aspect these Grade A morons in Washington didn't consider was that most-if not all- of the so-called clunkers were/are owned free and clear. Now I'm sure many of these nitwits are back into a monthly car payment that they may not be able to afford. How soon will we be seeing a huge surplus of repo cars that were sold under this idiotic scheme?

Don't even get me started on the whole wealth redistribution angle. Since when is it OK for the government to force me - at the point of a gun - to help buy a new car for somebody else? Pure lunacy!

Take a look these links CarFreak posted on another site. They will make you want to vomit!:

This Oldsmobile went to its death with dignity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IcIxhd8ks

While this Volvo screamed in agony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo&feature=player_embedded


    Engine Disablement Procedures for the CARS Program
  
    Perform the following procedure to disable the vehicle engine.

    1. Obtain solution of 40% sodium silicate/60% water.
    (The Sodium Silicate (SiO2/Na2O) must have a weight ratio of 3.0 or greater.)
    2. Drain engine oil for environmentally appropriate disposal.
    3. Install the oil drain plug.
    4. Since the procedure is intended to render the engine inoperative, drive or move the
        vehicle to the desired area for disablement.
    5. Pour enough solution in the engine through the oil fill for the oil pump to circulate
        the solution throughout the engine. Start by adding 2 quarts of the solution, which
        should be sufficient in most cases.

    CAUTION: Wear goggles and gloves. Appropriate protective clothing should be
                   worn to prevent silicate solution from coming into contact with the skin.
    6. Replace the oil fill cap.
    7. Start the engine.
    8. Run engine at approximately 2000 rpm (for safety reasons do not operate at high
       rpm) until the engine stops. (Typically the engine will operate for 3 to 7 minutes. As
       the solution starts to affect engine operation, the operator will have to apply more
       throttle to keep the engine at 2000 rpm.)
    9. Allow the engine to cool for at least 1 hour.
    10. With the battery at full charge or with auxiliary power to provide the power of a fully
        charged battery, attempt to start the engine.
    11. If the engine will not operate at idle, the procedure is complete.
    12. If the engine will operate at idle, repeat steps 7 through 11 until the engine will no
        longer idle.
    13. Attach a label to the engine that legibly states the following:

    This engine is from a vehicle that is part of the Car Allowance Rebate System
    (CARS). It has significant internal damage caused by operating the
    engine with a sodium silicate solution (liquid glass) instead of oil.

[jeff1956]

yes they destroy the engines by draining the oil and fillong the crankcase with liquid glass and running it till it seizes...then they salvage all resaleable parts and then scrap the carcass.  stupid program.....why should we have to fund stupid programs like these....something needs to be done.  it seems like were moving towards dictatorship.  obama seems to get everything he wants.

jeff

[Otto Skorzeny]

it seems like were moving towards dictatorship.  obama seems to get everything he wants.

Moving towards?

We're already there, brother!

Fascist dictatorship to be more precise. Government control over the privately owned means of production (banks).

Oh wait, the government owns and controls the auto industry and is trying to do the same with the healthcare system. I guess that's a socialist dictatorship. So we really have a hybrid of the two.

Ain't it grand?

[Otto Skorzeny]

then they salvage all resaleable parts and then scrap the carcass. 

From what I've read and from what I've been told by a mechanic at a dealership, absolutely no parts may be removed and re-sold from the "clunker" vehicles. The engine is destroyed on the dealer premises and then the whole car gets sent directly to the crusher.

A dealership mechanic on another forum I visit said a nice Cadillac was traded in and he was given strict orders not to remove any parts.

[Bill Gauch #23121]

From what I've read and from what I've been told by a mechanic at a dealership, absolutely no parts may be removed and re-sold from the "clunker" vehicles. The engine is destroyed on the dealer premises and then the whole car gets sent directly to the crusher.

A dealership mechanic on another forum I visit said a nice Cadillac was traded in and he was given strict orders not to remove any parts.

And when my brother totaled his car, the pot-smoking towing company guys said no parts could be removed from the car including the aftermarket radio. Of course, they had piles of rims in the yard and stacks of radios in the office.

Of course, for the most part, these cars are going to be gone all at every American tax payer's expense for the benefit of unprofitable or foreign companies. I'm keeping my 1997 Ford Ranger on principle. It gets 15 mpg, needs a $700 exhaust manifold, probably needs brakes and at best is worth $1500. That said, I refuse to sell my principles for $4500.

[Otto Skorzeny]

I was thinking just the same thing today, Bill.

Anyone who participates in this crack-brained wealth redistribution scheme is an accessory to theft. That applies to the new car buyers and the dealers.

[Vetteman61]

It's true when a cars totaled many times they won't let you take anything off the car because the insurance company is buying the car as is, to be resold to a scrap yard (typically) where it will be stripped for parts.  Many times, the car is appraised as is.

  Cash for clunkers (which is almost indisputably a poor idea from an in dept economic analysis) does allow parts to be used, but the drivetrain must be destroyed with no parts being used.  Many dealers and employees are still confused as to the rules of this plan, and partly because it was rushed through by people with agendas who didn't want to allow people the time to understand all the points to what was going on.

[David #19063]

Also looks like the majority of our tax dollars, the $1 Billion dollars (plus more if the additional money passes through the Senate), will go to foriegn car companies.

[TJ Hopland]

So there are no emissions issues killing an engine?

[Otto Skorzeny]

No. It burns gas like normal until the salt, sand and water in the crankcase brings it to a screaching halt.

[J]

Are the dealers getting some kind of kickback or something extra ?  because i hear all these cars getting destroyed you would think if someone brought a decent car in they would pay the money as a trade in and keep it. i know one dealer took a 96  impala ss as cash for clunkers that has to be worth more then $4500.00   mrjb

[Otto Skorzeny]

The dealers are getting to sell new cars due to artificially created demand.

I'm sure if someone brought in an extremely valuable car, the dealer would just pay the person for it and complete the transaction in the regular way if he thought he could make more money on it than selling a brand new car.

Remember, the  dealer is selling a brand new car that costs $20,000 or more. Why would he want to worry about making a couple grand on the resale of a trade in regardless of it's value or rarity?

[David #19063]

Remember, the  dealer is selling a brand new car that costs $20,000 or more. Why would he want to worry about making a couple grand on the resale of a trade in regardless of it's value or rarity?

It was my understanding, that especially in lean times, dealers could make more profit on a used car than the new cars they were selling.

[Carl Schreiber]

It's true when a cars totaled many times they won't let you take anything off the car because the insurance company is buying the car as is, to be resold to a scrap yard (typically) where it will be stripped for parts.  Many times, the car is appraised as is.

  Cash for clunkers (which is almost indisputably a poor idea from an in dept economic analysis) does allow parts to be used, but the drivetrain must be destroyed with no parts being used.  Many dealers and employees are still confused as to the rules of this plan, and partly because it was rushed through by people with agendas who didn't want to allow people the time to understand all the points to what was going on.

Brandon / Otto / David -

The Cash for Clunkers scheme was hatched by 31 year old boy genius socialist-in-training Brian Deese, your new auto czar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Deese).  Don't forget - the original auto czar, Steven Rattner, had to step down while his Quadrangle group is being investigated for involvement in a growing pension scandal (sound familiar?)  One need just look at Deese's associations to see the picture develop that reveals just who this guy is.  For some REAL fun, read the comments after the following short article (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/meet-gms-dismantler-brian-deese/)

As for Brandon's 'rushed through' comment, I have lived in Chicago and the surrounding suburbs my entire life, and Brandon's got it absolutely right.  BO learned his craft at the foot of the Daley regime, and Daley treats the Chicago City Council as a rubber stamp and his own personal key to city coffers.  Since they're all Democrats, they do exactly as Daley tells them.  It's the same tactic BO is using with Congress, and it relies on surrounding one's self with true believers - like comrade Deese.

Think he's ever changed a spark plug?

At least you guys get it - that's reassuring.

Carl Schreiber

[Ted in Olympia WA]

It sure makes me sick to see people wreck things on purpose.  Both of the cars in the video look very straight and clean; tons of good parts there. 

TED

[J]

  just found out today my dad gave up his  79,000 miles no rust white diamond  94 eldorado  that  i gave him a couple years ago  for a piece of ahh  new small car 

[Dan LeBlanc]

just found out today my dad gave up his  79,000 miles no rust white diamond  94 eldorado  that  i gave him a couple years ago  for a piece of ahh  new small car 

. . . and we know what's going to happen to it.

I've been watching some of the YouTube videos of these engines being destroyed and it makes me sick.  Where I live in Canada, some of these vehicles being destroyed are just not seen as folks around here just don't have the money to buy them new.  For someone like me, to see something like the 79000mi Eldorado being destroyed enrages me.  That's something that I would fly south for, buy it, and drive it home as you just can't find those here.

Sickening . . . simply sickening!