Brake parts for a '38 90 series, low pedal

[Tom Magdaleno]

Hi all,
  This is my first post.  I have a 38 V16 that was a junkyard car.  It has a mix of new parts and old parts.  For example the last owner put all new brake shoes, springs and wheel cylinders on the car.  However the brake pedal is low.  I think the problem is in either worn brake drums or the master cylinder itself.  The car has about 123,000 miles on it and i believe the drums are original because they have a large spring around the drum unlike any other car I have seen.  I noticed Kanter sells parts for the lower series Cadillacs, but not 80 or 90 series. 

My question is, will the master cylinder and drums interchange with a 75 series car?  Also, where can I buy brake drums for this car? 

Thanks

[Warren Rauch]

   The master cylinder fits 38-40 series 75 &90 and most big series 1936-37 models.                                                         The parts book says the drums are only series 90 from 38-40.  This seems strange since the brakes lining on 75 & 90 are both 14 x2 1/2 and the wheels and most chassis parts are the same both series.  The drums should be 13.995-14.005 " dia ,out of round not over .007 and can be machined up to .030 . ( Same either series -1939 shop manual)
   A low brake pedal useally is not a sign of needing these parts.Try  adiusting the brake shoe clearance (to  .010") and then bleeding the brake system . Warren

[Bill Gauch #23121]

I don't know if this applies to the big cars, but as far as I know, no one is reproducing the drums for the small cars. I have read suggestions to have drums metal sprayed and then turned to the required size. That said, it looks like 38, 39, and 40 series 90 cars should interchange. Series 75 lists a different part number in my book.

How low is low? The difference between worn shoes and drums vs. brand new shoes and drums shouldn't be so great that it would produce a significantly low pedal. Air in the lines and/or a leak could cause that. I would guess a shot MC could cause that too. Also suspect are any and all repairs allegedly done by the "last owner". Any number of things could have been done wrong, but fortunately, brakes are simple enough. I would start by checking for leaks and then bleeding the lines. If anything but clear or light yellow fluid comes out, I would go through the entire brake system ensuring it was properly assembled. You could rebuild the master cylinder and wheel cylinders at that time along with changing the hoses.

[Steve Passmore]

The car has about 123,000 miles on it and i believe the drums are original because they have a large spring around the drum unlike any other car I have seen.   

Thanks

These springs are for anti squeal I believe, and I agree with your other answers there are other things to check for a low pedal before changing drums.
Steve

[lester wax #155]

Contact Richard Long in Newport, Rhode Island. Richard is a club member and is currently restoring (ground up) a 39-90 sedan.
Richard may have an answer for you. Tell him Lester Wax suggested you call. He does not have a computer.

[homeonprunehill]

TOM,STEVE P. is correct, the springs on the dums are to prevent them from squealing.   Either you or sommeone have the
brakes adjusted  if the padel is still low , have the drums welded and ground to size. JIM

[Terry Wenger CLC#1800]

Tom:

The difference between the V-16 drums and the 75 Series ones is the fact that the 90 series cars had finned drums and the 75's did not. They should interchange. The springs are original. The CLC has a Authenticity Manual for these cars.

I have maintained a roster of these '38-'40 V-16's and would like you to send me your serial number if you don't mind. There are several of us including Richard Long who have recently restored these cars and can help you if you wish.

Terry Wenger

[Tom Magdaleno]

Thanks for the replies guys.  I will have to take a day to adjust those brakes.  I tried before and the adjusters were stiff and the drums were a pain to get off. 

[Doug Houston]

It's been a while, but I replaced the master cylinder on my 39-90 coupe, and the rebuild kit for it (I seem to recall the whole mater cylinder) was the same as a Chevrolet truck, from around 1957. Check out some parts books.

I also recommend replacing the brake system plumbing with stainless tubing sets from Inline Tubing Co., in Washington, Michigan. You may need to remove the lines carefully, and send them to Inline. They'll come back as perfect as Cadillac made them.  I haven't done it yet for my '38-90 or my 39-90, but no more galvanized, or original brake lines on anything I have!

Cadillac brakes tend to have high pedal, so I'm thinking that your master cylinder is bad. If new pieces are not easy to get, have the MC rebuilt by White Post Restorations, in White Post, Va.

[Glen]

I seem to remember an article in the Self Starter about a guy looking for a master cylinder for his 38 series 90.  He took it to an industrial brake supplier and showed it to the guy behind the counter.  After looking it over he went into the back and came out with an exact replacement.  It had the same casting number and all.  When asked about why he had it in stock the guy said it’s used on Clarke Forklifts now. 

Something to check out anyway. 

Glen

[Steve Passmore]

I seem to remember an article in the Self Starter about a guy looking for a master cylinder for his 38 series 90.  He took it to an industrial brake supplier and showed it to the guy behind the counter.  After looking it over he went into the back and came out with an exact replacement.  It had the same casting number and all.  When asked about why he had it in stock the guy said it’s used on Clarke Forklifts now. 

You do need to check this out, Two years ago someone was selling master cylinders for Hudson's on eBay for $50! brand new, I bought one for a friend of mine only to find it was exactly the same as my 60 series Cadillac. The seller didn't even know that. so I bought two more.

[Whit Otis, 1188]

The following master cylinder part numbers will fit 38 - 40 75 and 90 series.  Wagner F21918; Carquest E151209; NAPA 21918.  I haven't bought any for awhile, so you will need to check and see if still available.  To To use this MC, you must re-use the piston out of the old MC as it has a deep recess in it for the brake actuating rod that connects the brake pedal to the MC. Remove piston from new unit, remove seals and install on old style piston and reinstall in new cylinder. You can also modify the brake actuating rod to accept the new style captured rod that comes with the new MC's.  May require machine work, or perhaps adapting through use of clevis's, etc. IMPORTANT:  Must maintain 1/4" - 3/8" free play in pedal rod mechanism before the master cylinder piston starts to move.  If free play is not available, the MC piston won't retract past the vent hole and the brakes will drag!!!
Good Luck
Whit

[Phil Taylor]

INFO - I gave a set of 38-90 series Drums w/back plates complete along with a set of Axle's for same to Thom Well's in NC. I know Thom was selling his V16 and his other 38's so those parts may be available to some who needs them. Someone may have this contact info as I can't find it.  Good Luck

Phil

[Bruce Berghoff- CLC #1476]

INFO - I gave a set of 38-90 series Drums w/back plates complete along with a set of Axle's for same to Thom Well's in NC. I know Thom was selling his V16 and his other 38's so those parts may be available to some who needs them. Someone may have this contact info as I can't find it.  Good Luck

Phil
    Thom Wells can be reached at Vintage Motorcar Co. 1719 Dana Rd. Hendersonville, NC 28792- (828) 693-6500