Multi-Grade oils for my old LaSalle with rebuilt engine

[Bill Bickle 15098]

I suppose that this is not a new topic but I can't find one on this website.  What is the consensus on using Penn-Grade 1 multi grade oils or Shell Rotella?  It is time to change my oil after the break-in period and it appears that both have good products if you read their advertising.  I see a lot on  motorcycle and racing results but not on antique cars such as ours.  What are the recommendations in order to meet the ZDDP levels?

[dadscad]

I use Amsoil Synthetic oils in my 63's differential, transmission and motor. I attached a bulletin from Amsoil about the ZDDP issue. Amsoil Product Technical Services: (715)399-TECH. Call their technical department for their lubricant recommendation, or state what year, engine etc and I'll call them for you.

David
Amsoil Dealer 1074391

[35-709]

If you put "ZDDP" in the SEARCH function you should get a LOT to read.
Geoff N.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Without getting into the whole zinc, additive, blah, blah, blah, nonsense,  I would recommend you purchase this oil developed by and produced for the Classic Car Club of America specifically for vintage automobiles.

Lots of research and special formulation data is available.

http://classiccarmotoroil.com/

[TJ Hopland]

After many years someone was finally able to explain how multi viscosity oils work and why they are not recommended for some applications.  Lets see if I can explain it. I likely have some of the names and math wrong but I am fairly confident that the concept is correct.

The reason they did not have multi viscosity oils way back when is the magic ingredient is a fairly complex polymer that took a while to invent and perfect.  Lets say that oil is little ball bearings.  A 5w is a small bearing.  A 20w is medium.  A 40 is a large.  If its regular oil the number is the average size since nature is not perfect in this case.  If its synthetic the balls tend to be pretty dang close to the same size. Larger balls are good for lubrication and protection but dont flow well at cooler temps.   Finding the correct oil was always a challenge especially in cooler climates.  That part is fairly logical and easy to understand.   Now enter high tech science.  What they came up with was  polymer (i think thats what its called).  The polymer is like a cage that holds several of the balls together so they act like a single larger ball.   The magic part is that when its cold it does not hold the balls so you have a bunch of smaller balls that flow really well when cold.  When the temp rises they then hold the balls together making them act like the larger ball and since it warm they flow just fine.  So imagine you have a 5w30, its made up of 5w balls and say that the way the math works you need to put six together to get a 30 ( I dont think thats how the math works but thats not important to get the concept)  Apparently that polymer is fairly fragile and tends to be damaged by contaminants and heat.  As it breaks down it does not hold as many of the small balls together so eventually you are left with just small balls.  For hot running engines (like air cooled) they dont recommend multi viscosity for warm-hot climates because they would break down too quick and you would be left with too thin a oil to protect the engine.  Cars tend to run a fairly stable temps so the breakdown is slower so its not a real problem.

Its a similar thing with detergents.  The detergents are not actually ideal for lubrication so in applications where contamination is not a problem (like a gearbox) they dont want them because they could degrade the lubrication.   In an engine where contamination is a problem is a fair trade, slightly less lubrication but keeping clean makes things last longer. 


If I have this wrong feel free to explain it better than I did.   

[jaxops]

Without getting into the whole zinc, additive, blah, blah, blah, nonsense,  I would recommend you purchase this oil developed by and produced for the Classic Car Club of America specifically for vintage automobiles.http://classiccarmotoroil.com/

Otto,

  How is your car running with 15W40 oil?  I was wondering if this wasn't a product for the older cars 20s-30s?

[Otto Skorzeny]

It works just fine. Prior to this I used 20w-50. I've put close to 50,000 miles on my car since I bought.

[Wayne Womble 12210]

The Question from the site: "What Makes Classic Car Motor Oil Different From Other Motor Oils"?  Yikes , I would say the price, $64 a gallon.   Hey folks, that stuff ain't needed in our classic engines that have very light spring pressures and very low compression ratios etc.   Think about it, when they were new, the common oil was mineral oil. It is nowhere near the oil of today, I don't care if you use the cheapest junk on the market. By the 1960s you might need a little Zinc, but nowhere near 1600 PPM. That's in the all out racing oil category. It wont hurt anything, but a good quality oil with enough Zinc like Rotella will do just fine. As for multi-grade oils they don't matter much either.  The difference in a 30W or a 10W30  is, at cold temps the 10W30 is thinner. In a running engine that is hot, they are both the same. And, there is very little viscosity difference between a 10W oil and a 50W oil at 200 Degrees. So the only thing you really need to be concerned with is the conditions of a cold start, and some zinc if you have a later 60s - 70s car.     

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Wayne -- very well stated.  Finally some common sense creeps into this discussion. The oils used in the 40's and 50's were very primitive compared to today's oils.  And guess what --  our cars ran fine on them!! 

The additive packages used today are highly specialized mixes of chemicals that far
exceed the requirements of our cars.  We don't drive race cars, you know.

As far as using an oil such as Rotella (the type designed for diesel engines) I don't
believe that's a good idea since the additive package is very different for those vs.
gasoline powered engines.  Using diesel engine oil Just to get a few ppm's more of ZDDP
makes no sense.  You may be doing more harm than good.

Multigrade oils are fine for our cars (such s 10W-30) and are even recommended in the
1955 shop manual since they were just coming into common use about that time.  Using
them in earlier (40's) cars should present no problem.

Mike
 

 

[Misfit]

I've used a Valvoline 10W-40 fully synthetic in my 1959 Cadillac for 4 years and about 12,000 miles, with no problems.

I use the same thing in a 1976 500. I add 4oz of GM EOS at each oil change. The synthetic actually over time cleaned up the 59 engine.

But there is no way I'll pay $64 a gallon for motor oil. That's someone playing on the ignorance of a Classic Car owner that will pay any amount of money if the advertising sounds good.

MisFit

[Otto Skorzeny]

You guys need to brush up on your mathematics skills.

The price  (with shipping for 1 case) is $64.

That's 12 quarts.

That's 3 gallons

That equals $21.33 per gallon which is $5.33 per quart

What's the going rate at Auto Zone when it's not on sale? $3.50 per quart or something?


I only suggested that oil to wbickle because he seemed concerned about the ZDDP thing. Rather than get into that discussion, I figured just use that stuff if it gives you piece of mind.

[Wayne Womble 12210]

You are correct Otto.  I think reading skills too.

 But, even then it is cheaper a AZ and available when you want it without waiting for the UPS guy.  Also, local racer, machine shops, speed shops etc. have the same stuff on the shelf with all the ZDDP you would ever want if you are concerned about that.   

[Misfit]

Sorry Otto. I never did the math, just read the post, and went with the program. I stand corrected. 

I guess it's just like you skim reading, huh?

MisFit

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

You are correct Otto.  I think reading skills too.
 
Hi Wayne:

Maybe I missed something -- why the slam on "reading skills"?

Mike

[Wayne Womble 12210]

My reading skills Mike, not yours.