1964 Cadillac Sedan Deville Questions

[Tyler Atkinson]

I'm in the market for a car, and a dealership has one of these beauties. I have just a few minor questions, and I'll provide as much about the car as I can in a description as I have no pictures of it.

I have recently been looking for a daily driver car, and gas mileage isn't a huge concern because I travel on average less than 10 miles a day, so I've been looking at vintage cars because I like the looks and the fact that they are made of a material called 'metal' . Either way, I have a few questions on value and specs that I am hoping to get a few answers for, and yes, I have looked online first, I don't bug people unless I feel that I am not going to find the info I'm looking for.

1: Can anyone give me a good estimate to the gas mileage? I've usually seen around 7-9 city, 10-12 freeway, all the way up to about 16 if it's set up for unleaded. I would just like a confirmation from someone I feel knows Cadillacs better than someone who posts on Yahoo! answers (no offence if you do post on Yahoo! to help people)

2: The car is in fantastic shape, everything is there and working perfectly from what I have been able to gather, even has power windows, power locks, climate control, the works minus power steering I believe (even has an AM/FM radio if I remember correctly). They are asking about 13k for the car, but it has some paint missing and most of the chrome is starting to wear off. I have a price guide that says a Class 2 is worth 13k, but this just isn't Class 2 material because of the paint and chrome. I was thinking of trying to get it for 9k if I could, would this be a fair price?

3: I plan on modifying it a little bit with better engine parts for a little more juice, and possibly put in a CD player if I can do so without cutting too far into the car, maybe a nice camo paint job to match my favorite jacket. I know that some of what I want to do would kill the collector value, but would the car lose most of its value by doing so? I don't want to find out drilling a small hole in the glove box to put in a $50 CD player drops the value by 5k after the fact.

Thanks for your time,
Tyler

[jeff1956]

i would say your camo paint job would hurt it most, but it will be your car so do it the way you want.  even 9k sounds like too much if its missing paint and the chrome is bad.  i probably wouldnt go past 7k but thats just me.  others can chime in for a better average.  just because it is old doesnt mean its worth money.....i would expect to pick up a nicely restored car for around 17-18k...not a 100 point car but a very nice one at least.  just my opinion...

jeff

[Otto Skorzeny]

16mpg on the highway is not out of the question. My '56 gets 14.5 -16.5mpg  on the highway and 10-12 in the city.

I don't know what kind of engine modifications you're thinking about but the 429cid engine is rated at 340 hp. It's got plenty of punch.

[Tyler Atkinson]

Thanks for the responces.
Jeff, I think I didn't describe it so well. It does have paint, it's just got a few spots that are showing, and the chrome is there, but it's starting to look like it needs a rechroming sometime in the future. Thanks for your imput though, and I can always try to get the car for 7k.

Thanks Otto for the clarification on that. I found the specs for it online, but I think a bit more power under the hood might be what I like. I'll see when I get a chance to drive the thing.

Thanks again for the imput.

[jeff1956]

as long as you think the deal is fair is all that matters, but dont let yourself get taken on it.

jeff

[Chris Conklin]

The only reason the car is at $13K is because it's at a dealer, $9K seems reasonable.

As for your mods; you can achieve them without too much pain. The paint can always be changed to original some day. I would recommend you look at some after market stereos that fit the car without damage, there are a few of them out there, check Hemmings. They also come with 10 disk trunk mount CD changers and you can run a USB connector into the glove box (without damage) for an iPod. I would think CD changers are rapidly becoming extinct, go with the USB only and no damage to the trunk. I'd have to second Forrest on the engine mods, I think you'll find that 340 bhp coupled with 480 lb ft of torque is quite sufficient. I know I do.

Best of luck!

[mike mason]

Maybe some information on the mileage.
Was a new 64 convertible in family, not mine, but drove it quite a bit.
Remember mileage as about 12 in town in San Francisco area; not much better on highway.  The 50 I had then & now, at about the same time, averaged 10 in town, 18 on highway. 
The 64 was a wonderful and powerful car.  It followed a new 62, which I also drove a lot.  The 62 had plenty of power too, but the 64 was a giant step forward in power and smoothness.  In good shape, it doesn't need much help.
Mason

[Tyler Atkinson]

Chris,
Thanks for the info on the USB connector (I'm usually pretty far ahead on the tech stuff, but that just didn't come to mind at all for some reason), that's something I'll definatly do when I get the cash for it. As for the engine mods, it'll mostly be for increased gas mileage and a few kill switches to make it a little harder to steal. (forgot to mention, sorry  ). I haven't gotten a chance to drive the thing, or any car that is in it's weight and power class, but the more I think about it the more I come to realize, like you and a few others have told me, that I shouldn't need to modify for power because that engine is rather powerful. Thanks again for your knowledge.

Mason,
Thanks for the gas mileage. I live north of Seattle (the worst kind of enviornment for a car made of steel  ) and I have pretty level roads where I live, so I don't really think that the engine will get abused too badly if I did drive the car daily, and I'm glad to hear that I probably won't have to pay $80 a week for gasoline if I drove it to work and school frequently. Glad to hear that someone who has drivin a 64 caddy likes the way it drives and has around 12 mpg. Thanks for your knowledge from driving a caddy from the same year as the one I'm looking at.

Thanks for the wisdom jeff, everyone can always use more no matter how wise they may be.

A little more info (because I seem to have a bad habit of leaving out a bit of info everytime I ask for information), I don't intend on using this car for shows, I'm getting this because I want a car I trust to be safe as a daily driver, something the weight of a truck, or a small tank, as the case has been, is what I've been looking for. When I compare the cost of gas to the cost of a hospital bill, rehab, and all the little things that rack up cost from a collision, I'd rather pay for the gasoline and a new car if I got hit.

And I'm just glad to hear I won't need to take out 2 loans on the thing, one for the car, and the other for gasonline costs.

[Mike Welch]

Read through this thread, we talk about it. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_6364_club/messages/27732?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1
Theres 2 different transmissions & a few different rear end ratios to have an effect on mileage.  My 64 Series 62 with no air & hydramatic trans gets average 18 . ( thats both highway & city)

[Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397]

2: The car is in fantastic shape, everything is there and working perfectly from what I have been able to gather, even has power windows, power locks, climate control, the works minus power steering I believe

Tyler, that car (and every Cadillac built since and for more than ten years before) definitely has power steering. One of the posters mentioned that '64 Cadillacs came with two different transmissions; tha's true, but all De Villes (and Fleetwood 60's) came with the then-new Turbo-Hydramatic transmission which is a great transmission and has the modern PRNDL gear arrangment instead of the PNDLR of the older Hydramatic which made its last appearance on the '64 62 series and Fleetwood 75.

[Tyler Atkinson]

Thanks for the link mike. I didn't know that anyone from here posted on yahoo.
And thanks for letting me know that it has power steering Rusty, the online posting of the car didn't mention it, so I assumed it didn't have it.
Thanks everyone for all the info. Getting to know what I am looking at and what I should be doing to it better.

[DinoBob]

Is it allowed here to say that I think you could definitely buy a clean driver for half of that cost? I sincerely believe that. I scour the classifieds as a hobby and I'm telling you that for $13K the car should be incredibly clean.

[Steve W]

Tyler,

I did a LOT of research on these cars, about 6 months or so, before I bought my 68...and I'm still learning more every day, most of it right here!

I chose the 68 for the styling, the front disc brake option, the bigger motor, the shoulder belt option, etc, etc, because I'm using my car as my daily driver too.

The sound system in the car is really a no-brainer...no matter what you want you have options for installation without hurting the value of your car.  Just don't go cutting into the dash!

Paint is paint, do whatever you want. The next guy will do whatever he wants too, so no biggie. However, a paint job, done right, can be pretty pricey and it will affect your resale down the road...but who cares?!!? Its YOUR car, have fun with it.

The car has plenty of power as-is, if its tuned properly. Its just that most Caddy drivers dont light up the rear tires at stoplights...but, trust me, you could if you wanted to!!! 

Gas mileage will vary, but then again we don't buy these cars for their outstanding gas mileage anyway! We buy these cars partly because we are fans of the last great statement of superior motoring that GM proudly presented, that America proudly produced, before we sorta 'forgot' how to make cars. By today's standards, they are not really as safe, as economical, as inexpensive and as easy to own...but so what? It's a classic Cadillac! And its only going to go UP in value as new cars depreciate.

HOWEVER...having said ALL that...13k seems to be too much to pay for a sedan, unless this car is a total GEM and you really want a four-door. But from what you described, it is not! Seems like a nice 5-9k car at best!
Convertibles bring all the money (the price goes up when the top goes down), followed by the coupes and then the sedans. That's true for Cadillacs, and especially true for other, lesser, cars! Not that a sedan is any less a car, or has less value to a particular buyer (some prefer a four-door), I'm just talking about over-all pricing and getting the biggest bang for your buck! Check out similar cars on AutoTrader, completed auctions on eBay, Hemmings, craigslist, etc. Google '1964 Cadillac Dedan DeVille' and see what pops up. You'll be glad you did.

But if it comes down to this car you are talking about, don't worry, offer the guy what you believe to be a fair price and see what happens. Just be prepared to stick to your price and if a deal can't be reached, simply walk away. Be polite, but walk away. Chances are you won't make it all the way off the lot before the salesman runs after you with a counter-offer close to what you has in mind! (Don't ask me how i know...)

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[35-709]

I have to agree with those that say the price is too high on that car, a coupe maybe, a sedan that is not near perfect, no way.  I would look around more if that car cannot be bought a whole lot cheaper --- $7k sounds about right not having seen the car. 

Do not expect to find much in the way of "power enhancement" goodies for that engine.  As mentioned, it is pretty powerful as is and trying to get more power will mostly just make your gas mileage worse.  Sanderson makes headers for it and I believe it is possible to put a '67 Caddy intake on it with the '67s Quadrajet carb which will liven it up a bit.  The 429 is not the strongest engine Cadillac ever built and "souping it up" may be counter-productive.
Geoff N.   

[Tyler Atkinson]

Thanks for the info Geoff and Steve. The is darn near close to showcase on the inside, but it's just the paint and chrome that need a bit of touchup. I'm definatly going to try for 8k, 7k if I can talk them down (I think it's a fair price).

[Steve W]

Good luck Tyler....keep us posted!

[Doug 22747]

At my urging, my Dad bought a 64 (also followed a 62) both were the 6 window variety; the 64 429 got 15 mpg highway (I remember figuring it myself, the gas was .48/gallon for the Esso Extra!) the turbo hydramatic was a big improvement around town; it was a heavy, solid, trouble free car we loved until the gas crisis of the 70s, you should look around, $13K is too much for what you describe.