News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

2 new tires have to be on the rear?

Started by TJ Hopland, October 12, 2009, 12:05:54 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TJ Hopland

Just took a typical FWD car that I just bought in for 2 new tires since the fronts are bald but the backs almost look new. Even getting the same model tires to match even though its not my favorite brand. Seemed odd to me that the fronts were shot and the backs were that good. Shop (big national chain) said they are now required (assuming by corporate) to put the new tires on the rear when the customer only wants to buy 2 tires. The cost is the same so its not like they are selling me something else. He says its because Michelin lost a lawsuit a couple of years ago when some woman (nothing against women but seems that auto lawsuits often come from women?) rolled her vehicle after getting 2 new tires installed on the front. Some testing was done and 'they' have now decided that its safer to have the best tires on the back of ANY vehicle.

I know some of the 4x and AWD stuff can be pretty sensitive when it comes to tires. All my stuff is front, rear, or part time 4x and I have always had the best tires on the front. I do have a 'yard truck' that has the good ones on the back but thats different.

What do you all think? Anyone read anything backing up what the tire places are saying?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Otto Skorzeny

I've never heard of that before. I've always put the best tires on the front regardless of drive train.

An internet search ought to turn up information about the supposed lawsuit. Sounds dubious to me.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

bcroe

You need the fronts to steer, so that's where my best go.  But the rears should not be so much different; otherwise you might need a rotation scheme to keep them together.  As for the dealer, he only gets my wheels.  Then I take them home & put them on as I see fit.  I've had too many incidents of them doing damage with those air wrenches; I put them on by hand & lube things as needed (brake drums should slide off, etc.).  The air wrench is OK for removal.  Bruce Roe CLC # 14630

Greg Powers

This is just another case of too many lawyers (sorry guys) with nothing else to do but blame some big corporation for our stupidity. Remember the lady with the McDonalds hot coffee BETWEEN HER LEGS WHEN DRIVING, of course it was McDonald's fault!!!!!! My family owns a Michelin dealership and the information you were given is correct from Michelin regarding replacement of only two tires. "If only two tires are being replaced, the two newer tires need to be installed on the rear axle except if replacing them with lower speed rated tires. The new tires with deeper tread will provide better wet grip and evacuate water more effectively-which helps delay the onset of hydroplaning.  Deeper tread tires on the rear axle will help avoid oversteer and a loss of vehicle stability."Michelin Tire Fitment Guide copyright 2009. I can't say I don't see reasons for the new smooth tires on the front, but the manufacturer says almost always the new tires belong on the rear. Hope this helps clarify the subject.
G.L. Powers>1954 Series 62 Sedan/1958 Fleetwood 60 Special-sold/1963 Series 62 Convertible-sold/1970 Fleetwood Brougham-sold/1994 Fleetwood Brougham/1971 Sedan Deville-sold/2000 Deville-sold/2001 DTS-sold/1976 Eldorado Convertible-sold/1983 Coupe Deville-sold/1990 Allante-sold/1990 and 1991 Brougham deElegance-sold/1992 Brougham-sold/Always looking!

Otto Skorzeny

Interesting. Seems counter-intuitive but I guess that's correct.

Well TJ, I guess you have a lot of tire rotating to get to!
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

EAM 17806

HI GUYS, GALS TOO!  I've always been taught to have our best tires on the rear because of much better control of the car if you ever got a blowout it's easier to control the car if the blowout occured in the front tire than the rear.  This is because you have somewhat of control due to the steering wheel.  If a blowout happened to a rear tire the car would be swerving all over the place and it would be quite difficult to control this situation.  I happen to agree with that suggestion too.  EAM
Ev Marabian

1976 Cadillac Coupe DeVille, 1989 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, 1990 Pontiac Bonneville and 1996 Buick Skylark

John Tozer #7946

Frankly, regardless of where the "big chain" puts them, I would change them myself so the better tyres are on the front.

Even the scenario EAM suggests (blow out in the rear tyre) is a non-event in a front wheel drive because you still have 100% of drive AND steering through the good tyres. Ya just drive it out of trouble!

Last time I had a flat in a rear tyre (AWD in the bush) I had driven 22 km on bush roads before I knew about it!

Regards,



John Tozer
#7946

The Tassie Devil(le)

I too put the new tyres on the front.

Better to have Steering Control, and less chance of a flat tyre with new tyres as well.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

bcroe

"The new tires with deeper tread will provide better wet grip and evacuate water more effectively-which helps delay the onset of hydroplaning.  "  Yes they will, that is why I want them on the steering (front) position.  AND the front tires make a track in the water so its easier for the rears to make contact, so they don't NEED to be as good.  AND the fronts take most of the braking force, so they contribute more to shorter stopping distance.  Bruce Roe CLC # 14630

buicksplus

I think this practice started after the Firestone/Explorer problem.  The rollovers the Explorer had were almost entirely caused by rear tire failures.

Old myths die hard, but the fact is a blowout in the rear is much harder to control than one on the front.  At high speed, the fishtailing can easily get get out of hand and you end up sideways quickly.  With a tall sport ute, you can end up inverted.

Any blowout can be bad, but I have had a few on front tires and control has never been a big issue -- perhaps because the front wheels do steer and can easily correct much sway.  Not so with the rear.

Bill
Albuquerque

Bill Sullivan CLC# 12700

mrspeedyt

#10
just go with the flow and rotate the tires later. besides, you will wear out the tires you don't like faster... :) another note... when i bought new tires for my prius sams club wouldn't sell me the size i wanted... they would only install the factory size... at least i was able to go with another brand... thank you lawyers and frivilous lawsuits... :-\
s. twitchell

John Tozer #7946


"Old myths die hard, but the fact is a blowout in the rear is much harder to control than one on the front.  At high speed, the fishtailing can easily get get out of hand and you end up sideways quickly."


Bill,

I only agree with this if you are talking about rear wheel drive (and maybe all-wheel drive depending on how they are set up) vehicles but the discussion here related intitially to front wheel drive cars. There is no way a rear blow out on a front wheel drive car needs to cause anything like the same result as a rear blow out on a rear wheel drive car. In fact, if the car is simply driven gradually to a stop, "fishtailing" in a front wheel drive car can be almost impossible because the rear of the car is being pulled along, not pushed by the rear wheels. Just check out what those World Rally guys manage to do with their cars with half the rear end missing!

On the other hand, a blow out in a front tyre on a front wheel drive car CAN be a handful depending on a whole pile of things including how much drive to the effected wheel remains after the blowout.

Regards,


John Tozer
#7946

bcroe

The argument is based on the idea of  tire blowout, for which the tire cos want to protect  their behinds.  Reality is, far more accidents are caused by insufficient traction in poor conditions.  And THAT is what will control my tire placement.  Bruce Roe

The Tassie Devil(le)

Most of the "Accidents" are the cause of the "Nut" behind the wheel.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Glen

Years ago this discussion came up at work.  We had a guy that liked to get the discussion as heated as possible.  So he went around and asked everyone what they thought and told them what others had said.  Some of the people said put new tires on the front some said put them on the rear and a few said it does not matter.  But one guy said he puts the new tires on the left side.  He was asked why?  What in the world are you thinking?  His answer was that he lived in a rural area and the roads were narrow.  When you meet an oncoming car you frequently have to put the right wheels off the edge of the road.  He wanted his best tires on the pavement for traction and not off the pavement where they were more likely to be damaged. 

Sounds good to me.   :D

Glen
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Sweede64

This has been tested ower and ower whit the same conclusion, the best tires belongs in the rear. If you always drive on dry roads it probably don´t matter where the new ones are but on wet or snow covers roads its the different bbetweenlife and death!!!

Whit good traction in the rear there is less risk of fishtailing and hitting oncoming traffic sideways, wee who live in the snowy part of the world know this and there is newer any discussion where the new tires belong.
Thomas Karlström

TJ Hopland

Quote from: Sweede64 on October 16, 2009, 04:26:04 PM
This has been tested ower and ower whit the same conclusion, the best tires belongs in the rear.

Not directed specifically to Sweede64 but rather to all those that keep saying its been proven, where are all these tests?  The guys at the tire shop said the same thing yet could not come up with anything to back the statement.   Im not doubting they are out there just seems strange that I have not found or heard of them. Im not sold on the idea myself but it seems to me that since there are a few people out there that are sure there must be something to back it up.   Maybe its one to write into Mythbusters to test?   Until last week I had never heard of this before for a FWD car.  Yes much debate on other drive configurations but it always seemed to be sure on FWD that the best went up front.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

tozerco

TJ,

You're right of course and the reason there isn't much to quote by way of sources of information is, I suspect, because:

1. Much of it is common sense. Most accidents aren't caused nowadays by blow-outs. Most are caused by a failure to avoid a collision with something or a failure to remain on the road. This comes down to two factors - you couldn't steer your way out of the problem and/or you couldn't brake soon enough;

2. Don't care where you live or how dry/dusty or snowy it is, all of the steering effort and most of the braking effort in a car in that situation depends on the FRONT wheels.

3. In a front wheel drive car (which is where this post started) all the DRIVING effort is also through the front tyres in the event that you get the opportunity to avoid the collision or drive the car back onto the road.

Guess if your only concern when you drive a car is a blowout (even though it is most unlikely to be the cause of your accident if you are going to die in a car) put the new tyres wherever you like. Seems to me you had better be able to pick the type of accident and which wheel is going to blow-out too though

Bit like the old argument that was raised when seat belts became compulsory and they were deemed by some to be a bad idea if your car ends up on fire or in the water - great as long as you get to pick that accident that you are going to have but most of us don't!

Regards,


John Tozer
#7946
John Tozer
#7946

'37 7513
'37 7533

The Tassie Devil(le)

'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

76eldo

1.  Best 2 tires on the front of a front wheel drive car makes total sense.  They always wear more anyway.

2.  With any blowout, no gas, no brakes, minimal steering to try to stay straight, if the situation allows.

3.  Don't buy tires from any national chains.  They always have an agenda driven by deals, spiffs, and house brands.  If I never heard of it, I ain't buying it, and don't tell me who it is "made by".  If they won't put their name on it, it's crap.

4.  Independent tire stores that stock many brands are your best bet.  They know which ones work the best on different cars.

5.  Never skimp on tires.  Modern radials last a  L O N G  time, and top of the line tires are better, always.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado