News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

Original Parts Group to start offering Cadillac Parts in a big way

Started by 76eldo, November 26, 2009, 07:05:21 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

76eldo

According to an excellent article in the latest "Hemmings Classic Car" magazine, Original Parts Group has launched a big program on supplying Cadillac parts.  The owner of the company seems to feel that lack or restoration parts is the reason that Cadillacs lag way behind in value as compared to GM muscle cars, and that this will make Cadillac values rise.

I think it's just the enormous popularity of muscle cars in general, and not as many people want to own Cadillacs.  While I would like to see my collection go up in value, I like to be able to buy nice cars at reasonable prices.

If you read the article, what do you guys think?

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

jaxops

It is frustrating looking for replacement parts for Cadillacs when you can rebuild a Corvette or a Mustang from these catalog places.  I never had a problem with the engine parts.  The were easier to find than ones for my 70 Electra.  Trim parts were more difficult.  I repaired and rechromed most of my parts.  I'd like to see more parts- availability. 
1970 Buick Electra Convertible
1956 Cadillac Series 75 Limousine
1949 Cadillac Series 75 Imperial Limousine
1979 Lincoln Continental
AACA, Cadillac-LaSalle Club #24591, ASWOA

Otto Skorzeny

I doubt whether the reason Cadillacs aren't more sought after has anything to do with the price or availability of parts. Even if it is, OPGI isn't exactly offering bargain basement prices on their repro parts. They charge as much or more as anyone for their stuff.

As for the price or availability of parts having anything to do with collectability? How many of you checked parts sources before buying your cars? Of course you didn't.

Chevys and Fords are collected because their are a lot more of them to collect. They are the cars that people rode in as children and drove in high school. This feeling of nostalgia drives many to purchase cars they remember from their youth.

I 'll tell you that Cadillacs garner much more attention at shows from the general public than the Mustangs, t-Birds, muscle cars, etc. It's nice going to a local show and not having your car disappear into an endless line of same or similar models.

Our cars were unique when new and are more unique today.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

RobW

Quote from: Otto Skorzeny on November 26, 2009, 08:21:29 AM

I 'll tell you that Cadillacs garner much more attention at shows from the general public than the Mustangs, t-Birds, muscle cars, etc. It's nice going to a local show and not having your car disappear into an endless line of same or similar models.

Our cars were unique when new and are more unique today.

Really? Not so much here in NYC metro area. People at shows here ignore caddies like a fat girl at a dance! Unless its a cadillac specific show. Or similar marques like cadillc-buick, pontiac, etc.
Rob Wirsing

Carl Schreiber

Brian -

This topic has been beaten to death on this site (use the search function to locate the original threads), and I think some
REALLY valid conclusions have been drawn by CLC members regarding OPGI's entry into the classic Cadillac parts business.  My original conclusion has not changed (for OPGI or any other supplier) - done right they could set the Cadillac restoration parts business on its ear (especially if they could provide those 'unobtanium' pats...). 

Can you provide a link to the HCC article?  I'd be interested to know when the interview took place in relation to the introduction of their catalog - basically to determine if anything has changed since the catalog came out.

Carl Schreiber

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

  My original conclusion has not changed (for OPGI or any other supplier) - done right they could set the Cadillac restoration parts business on its ear (especially if they could provide those 'unobtanium' pats...)

Carl Schreiber
[/quote]

Carl, could you explain in more detail as to what you mean? Also, give us some examples of these "unobtainable" parts you have in mind.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

76eldo

I don't know if you can view the article online, as it is in the current issue.

I am a charter subscriber to that magazine, which has been out for about 5 years.  It's an excellent publication.

I think that Cadillac values are not tied to the availability of parts.  If so, a 1964 Mustang would be worth more than a brass era Packard.

However, the more parts that are available, the better, and I am glad that they claim that they are committing major dollars to the Cadillac parts addition to what they offer.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Otto Skorzeny

Their catalog is pretty nice and has a good number of parts for lots of different years and models but I haven't really seen anything in it that isn't / hasn't been available from other sources already.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

Carl Schreiber

Brian/Bob -

It's a little tough to be as clear as I'd like to be without stepping on any toes.   Additionally, I can only discuss in the context of 1957/1958.  Without 'naming names', there are several suppliers that charge break-neck prices, yet provide only marginal parts.  For instance, check what OPGI gets for a REALLY nice chrome-plated (pot metal) GTO fender emblem - it's about $40.  All the mounting pins are correct, in the right place, and it comes with the correct mounting clips.  Yet, a tinier - and no more intricate - 1958 fin emblem can cost $100 or better depending on where/whom you buy it from.  How about cast 1957 Eldorado trunk 'V's'?  Or machined versions for that matter?  $200 -$300 AND THEY'RE NOWHERE NEAR CORRECT!  What's worse is they're gold-plated, NOT gold-anodized.  The fender emblems, etc they offer are the SAME PARTS everyone else offers, and they're all pot-metal and NOT aluminum like Cadillac made them.  Ever try to find a fresh set of rear brake drums?  How about a brake rod boot (and I'm NOT going to send $300 to Norway for one, though it appears to be dead-on...)?  There's a TON of parts NOBODY makes and EVERYBODY with one of these cars could use - and I'm only talking 1957-1958.  Bob, I'm sure you could think of thousands of parts that aren't available for your cars, too that nobody offers, and that was my point.  The old joke is 'they're made of unobtanium - that's why you can't get them...'   Bottom line is like Forest said, they're not doing anyone any favors offering all the same stuff USA Parts, McVey's, All Cads, etc already sell.

Ever look through a Danchuck catalog?  Their re-pop stuff is PERFECT, and not out-of-line price-wise.  Their stuff is SO good, I swear you could put a whole 1957 BelAir convertible together from their catalog, and done right, the best show judges wouldn't be able to tell. 

Which brings us to Brian's comment about Cadillac values being tied to parts availability.  My feeling is they're right - but the other way around, if you will.  Because the availability of parts is NOWHERE near that of the lines OPGI already does, that makes restoring a Cadillac a MUCH costlier proposition than restoring say a 1970 Chevelle or a 1957 BelAir.  The best way to restore a Cadillac seems to be to buy a desirable project car AND a donor parts car(!)  Since proper Cadillac parts are more rare than other popular makes, they tend to cost more (I think we're ALL responsible for putting a LOT of these guy's kids through college, if you know what I mean).  Therefore, as the cost to do a proper restoration is tied to parts (un)availability, if parts become available, the cost of a finished restoration should (theoretically at least) go down.  We all know how much hunting down parts costs, not to mention restoring less-than-desirable parts to usable condition.  If we were able to dial '800-I-need-parts' like the 57 Chevy guys, I'm not sure that a Cadillac restoration would be as costly, and as a result, the finished product might not be as valuable. 

At least that's my analysis...

Carl Schreiber

Otto Skorzeny

Ever look through a Danchuck catalog?  Their re-pop stuff is PERFECT, and not out-of-line price-wise.  Their stuff is SO good, I swear you could put a whole 1957 BelAir convertible together from their catalog, and done right, the best show judges wouldn't be able to tell.

You aren't kidding. They're even making entire steel '57 tubs and fenders. All you have to supply is a rolling chassis.

Original production numbers play an enormous role in the decision to repro parts and the final cost thereof.

With 500,000 1965 Mustangs  built, you have a much greater chance of selling enough repops of a specific item to take advantage of economies of scale. This means you can sell more units at a cheaper price and still make a profit.

When you have only 1000 or so of a particular model built or even 25,000 units built,  a repro part will have to be sold at a much higher price just to break even, let alone make a profit.

I really don't think we can expect to see a lot of new reproduction parts from anyone.  If we do, the Cadillac production numbers preclude low "57 Chevy-like" prices.

fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

Carl Schreiber

Forrest -

You're right again (as usual).  Even 1957 which was a very good year for Cadillac production was 'only' 146841 units, MUCH less than as you point out the 1964-1/2 Mustang. 

Bottom line - would I pay more for a perfect re-pop Cadillac part than I would expect to pay for a comparable 57 Chevy part?  Yes, without question, but you'll still never have the market for 1957 Cadillac parts that you would for 1964-1/2 Mustang parts.  At 150,000, that's roughly only 30% of the 64-1/2 Mustangs.  That's why a restored classic Cadillac will command a premium price over a comparable GM car, and parts availability is a significant factor.

There will still be specialty manufacturers like Mastermind Inc. who will provide parts for even MORE limited markets (like the 57-58 Eldorado Brougham) who will charge a lot of money for correct, well-done parts - and get it.  That's what gets me - if a one-man operation like Mastermind can do it, you'd figure a larger, established aftermarket manufacturer would want in on the business; plus, they've already got the infrastructure in place for sales, marketing, manufacturing, etc.

Carl Schreiber

Bill Podany #19567

Hello Members:

I read with interest the Hemming's article from Original Parts Group; I am instersted in any supplier who is dedicated to vintage Cadillac parts.  I have ordered their Cadillac publication.  I shall reserve judgement until I have engaged a transaction of importance.  However, it is comforting to hear from a successful business enterprise dedicated to vintage Cadillac's; this is a rarity, and should be appreciated by us owners.

Bill Podany
Knoxville, TN
1941 60 Special Fleetwood
1955 Eldorado

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Carl/Forrest,
well guys just got done with dinner[burp], so back to this machine. I have to agree with both of your posts. I hate bad rerpo parts! I'd pay more money for dead-on parts. I don't know where some  repro guys get their samples but they seem to start with junk. One of my favorite examples is the King Bee outside mirrors. Instead of doing the conv. style which nicely  fits the closed cars, they did the closed car style that sort of fits the convs.
Some parts will NEVER be repro'd.
About mastermind, the only bean counter he needs to satisfy is himself. The large operstions can't spend that much time & money on a few products.

Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Greg McDonnell

#13
[quote

I 'll tell you that Cadillacs garner much more attention at shows from the general public than the Mustangs, t-Birds, muscle cars, etc. It's nice going to a local show and not having your car disappear into an endless line of same or similar models.
[/quote]

This is definitely not the case here in the South (lower Alabama).  I've stood by and watched as show-goers totally ignore my AACA First Place Senior Level '66 Eldorado so they could hurry to view a Mustang, Camaro, Chevelle or Plymouth 'Cuda parked near me.  As for T-birds, I rarely, if ever, see one at a local show-even an all Ford show.  I enjoy taking my '63 Limited Edition Thunderbird Landau out for a drive or to a local show.  It's so rare, people are standing all around it to get a closer look.

Guess it depends upon what part of the country one lives in...

Greg McDonnell
CLC #20841
Greg McDonnell
CLC #20841

76eldo

All valid points, but, what the article says is that the Cadillac values are low because there isn't as much available for repro moldings, emblems, etc.

I think the values are low because that's just what the market is.

At Barrett Jackson, for example (good or bad) a restored, but cloned 69 Z/28 will sell for over $100,000.00.

A 69 DeVille convertible in the exact same condition, maybe $30,000 on a good day.

So the original pecking order and original values mean very little, the market is driven by what buyers want, and what's available.  I am really happy that OPG is going to make more Cadillac stuff available, but that will not have the profound effect on values that the article mentions.

I am happy that the cars I like are affordable at this time, although I paid top dollar for my Allante, and for my 80 Hess and Eisenhardt Eldorado.  The 76 Convert was a good deal at the time.  For these 3 "keepers" I couldn't care less what they are worth, because I have no plans to sell any of them, and when I bought them, I had the cash on hand.

More parts availability is always good news, but I really don't think this will change the Cadillac marketplace, which is fine as it is, IMO.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

XGLEGAL

Therefore, as the cost to do a proper restoration is tied to parts (un)availability, if parts become available, the cost of a finished restoration should (theoretically at least) go down.  We all know how much hunting down parts costs, not to mention restoring less-than-desirable parts to usable condition.  If we were able to dial '800-I-need-parts' like the 57 Chevy guys, I'm not sure that a Cadillac restoration would be as costly, and as a result, the finished product might not be as valuable. 

At least that's my analysis...

Carl Schreiber


  Hey Carl, I read with interest your comments and those of others.
  The flip-side of your anyalysis above is that improved economy and ease of restoration on the older Cadillacs might actually INCREASE the "demand"/interest from car hobbyists for Cads in the first place, hence increasing the market ("value") for these cars - by theoretically appealing to a wider audience.   I disagree with your analysis that a less costly restoration might result in a finished product that is not as valuable (the restoration costs on, e.g., a 4 door sedan or even limo of the 50's vintage might be astronomical, but would result in a finished product not increased much in value by the high restoration costs).  For instance, if you set out to embark on another "journey" of restoring a 57 Biarritz, wouldn't you be willing to pay more for the car initially (or even make the decision to embark on the project at all) if you knew you could find those "57-only" and (nightmarish) "57 Eldo-only) parts a bit faster and cheaper??.  [Carl, hope to touch base soon]. 
  Happy Thanksgiving to you and all, Xavier



Xavier A. Gutierrez, Esq.  CLC # 24068
_______________________________________________________
1959 CDV (2)
1957 Ser. 62 Coupe
1957 Eldo Brougham
1957 Ser. 62 Conv.
1957 Eldo Biarritz
1957 CDV
1961 Ser. 62 Conv.

The Tassie Devil(le)

Funny thing about the price and value of cars these days.

The '57 Chevrolet, the Hemi Cuda, L88 'Vette, etc, everybody wants them as the hype that accompanies these demands the higher end price as more people are wanting them..

The Cadillac with its' lesser popularity which relates to fewer buyers, ends up with a lower price.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Otto Skorzeny

Regarding Rob's and Greg's observations at car shows:

Perhaps it's the finned Cads of the 50s and early 60s that attract the crowds, at least at the shows I attend in the Atlanta area.

People around here drive collector cars year round and Mustangs and muscle cars are not an uncommon sight. People seem to crowd around the older Cads at the small, local gatherings while paying cursory notice to the dozen or so heavy Chevies lined up in a row.

My car won the best stocker and people's choice award in the first show I took it to 7 years ago.

I guess it does have a lot to do with location.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

Greg McDonnell

#18
Quote from: StevenTuck on November 27, 2009, 04:23:15 PM
I have a 1962 Eldorado Biarritz which just won 1st place at Winter Park Concours D'Elegance. I have found that regardless of the muscle cars, people in Florida flock around my car with fond memories of the past. These people are of all ages including bikers and muscle car gear heads. In fact, last December I attended a Toy's For Totts benefit with 450 cars present. They gave out 10 Best of Show awards. The Corvette and Muscle Car Choice was my car, figure that one. I think those who are interested in cars with style and class like a Cadillac always demands attention and respect. I hear so often that these cars were like pieces of artwork and nothing today comes close to them which I agree.

Regarding OPGI, good reproduction parts are always welcome to any collector. Whether their efforts, increase the popularity and restoration of Cadillacs will only be told with time. Their success will ultimately mean greater value for our vehicles which will be a good thing. I wish them success.

Wow!  If only the area where I live were so fortunate as to have a Concours d'Elegance.  Heck, we don't even have a Winter Park!  I've been to Winter Park so I'm well aware of how lovely it is.  Our local shows are hosted primarily by the Mustang Club or the Mopar Club.  Sadly our regional AACA chapter's annual show/fund raiser (with emphasis on the latter) has turned into an open show thanks to poor attendance when it was a '25 year or older' event. Gone are the beautiful Packards, Pierce Arrows and other prestigous marques.  I attended this event earlier this year and was extremely disappointed with what those wonderful cars had been replaced. The last Mopar-only show I attended (this past Spring) was so chocked full of Cudas, Dusters, Super Bees and Challengers (both the new model and the vintage ones), I couldn't help but think my '65 Imperial Crown convertible (frame-off, 100 point restoration) would have been a huge crowd pleaser-yeah, right!  The area has a cruise-in once a month at one or more Sonic Drive-ins.  Once, a few years back, I took a pristine example of a '66 Oldsmobile Toronado there and it was completely ignored due to all the hotrod and generic, dime-a-dozen muscle cars present.  Last year at, what had been in years past, a very respectable show, I took my '70 Continental Mark III.  It has 50k on the odometer and looks like a three year old car.  What should park next to me but a fire engine red Sixties Mustang.  I don't even have to mention which car the crowds flocked to.  One guy had the nerve to ask me where were all the 'hoes' (prostitutes)!!!  I guess in his world, Mark IIIs belonged only to pimps!

I no longer waste my time at our local shows as the crowd and the cars are about the same each time I go.  Even my Thunderbird garners less attention than before as it is far more elegant and sporty and not at all  'muscley'!  Not only are my cars underappreciated at our local shows, I have no interest in seeing yet another, excuse me while I yawn, muscle or pony car, '55 thru '57 Chevy or someone's tricked-out ride.   

Congratulations on winning 1st place at such a high end 'local show' as the Winter Park Concours d'Elegance!  That's quite an honor...
Greg McDonnell
CLC #20841

Whit Otis, 1188

In Colorado, we have a unique one day car show held every year at the Abbey in Canon City (of Royal Gorge fame) Colorado.  It is "on the grass" and sponsored by the VMCCA, but anything is welcome.  So, you have this wonderful mixture of everything from rods, customs, muscle cars, classics, antiques, etc.  When I put my '40 formal sedan on the field, it is ringed by particpants and show visitors, so maybe the earlier cars attract more attention.  This year, I took my '40 Cad and my friend drove his '68 Eldorado which he purchased new, and it is beautiful.  We parked next to each other and my car drew many more onlookers even though my car is somewhat "rough" compared to his.  However, the year before he took his '49 60 Special and that drew lookers like flies to honey.  Also, the one thing I like about this show is it judged by participants and visitors to the show.  Consequently, the most popular car in a class wins, not necessarily the best restored or the most expensive (in current value terms). 
Whit Otis
Whit Otis -
1941 6219D Custom
1941 6219D
1940 7533F
1986 Mercedes Benz 560 SEL
1999 Bentley Arnage
2019 XT5
Drawing of AP Sloan Custom by Terry Wenger