1937 7519 Window Moldings

[DanS]

Hello all:  Time to go to the collective experts!  I have a 37-7519 and slowly the windows are getting loose.  What I mean is that everything is starting to just fall out.  For example, the driver side window wood molding is falling inward, along with the metal center piece between the main and side window.  Also, a little clip and some wood like screws have come out of the top.  Now the soft insert within the metal guide work of the door is also succumbing to gravity.

Would prefer to resolve this myself versus going to a shop so looking for a little advice.

Thank you in advance!

Dan CLC#24881

[John Tozer #7946]

Dan,

This may help you pin down your problems.

This is a photo of the inside of your front door. You will note that it is entirely timber framed with a metal “skin” fixed over and around it.



The combination of old rubbers and timber does not survive 70+ years very well â€" the rubber breaks down first and lets the water in and the confined space, poor drainage and timber in contact with metal does the rest! Depending upon how badly affected your timber framing etc. is, there are a couple of “fixes” but they do require an infinite store of patience and some woodworking skills. Basically, you need to treat what timber can be saved and replace that which can’t. In situations where the timber is simply too far gone, “quick fixes” involving welding sheetmetal skins to the inside of the door panel have been used but I have no personal experience of these.

Step 1 is for you to remove the inner door upholstery lining. There is no sweet way of doing this â€" the lining was fixed to the timber in various ways depending on where you look on the door. Best you remove the door and window handles first (may need a special tool â€" search these forums for details), the arm rest (screwed on) and window garnish mouldings (the varnished burl walnut sections around each window â€" screwed on) then just start with a small plain screw driver inserted between the lining and the door frame and work all the way around

Where the timber is not too badly “gone” (as in the case with the doors in the photo) the ideal solution is a combination of treatment and replacement. First to the treatment:

-   Provided the timber is reasonably solid (some dry rot will not hurt provided it does not extend right through the piece) you can use a product such as International Everdure (most boat building supply companies will have this product) in a four coat application â€" the first coat is fairly heavily “thinned” to enhance penetration then the next 3 coats seal the timber to prevent any further deterioration, harden the timber, particularly the dry rot areas, and allow you to re-use the original screw and bolt holes. This is a paint on product so you don’t need a great deal of skill to apply it. It is epoxy based so work outside or in a very well ventilated area;

Then to replacement:

-   There may well be areas of timber components that are just too far gone for treatment to work. I have found that the timber jamb section on the lock side of the door around the lock is particularly susceptible to both dry rot and to fracturing where the timber is cut away to accommodate the lock. The hinge side timber is usually much less a problem as is that over the top of the window. The back-board for all the hardware is a prime source of problems because it is only about ¾ inch thick to start with and is then heavily routed and rebated for the various hardware items. A section through the centre that accommodates the window slides is usually only about 3/8 â€" ¼ inch thick and will probably have split. It may be possible to glue and clamp this back-board in-situ but I have never tried it. If the damage is not too severe you may be able to carefully remove the screws that fix this back-board to the jamb timbers without removing the back-board and Everdure the back-board and the old screw holes so they can be re-used. They are very close to the edges of the back-board and commonly the timber breaks out from the edge.

In a worst case scenario or if you are particularly convinced that you want to restore the timber, I can provide you with a whole lot more photos and tips but you are really getting into a great deal of work and it requires some enhanced wood working skills and special tools so I will wait to hear from you once you have taken the inner door lining off to reveal the extent of your problem before I go into that.

Regards,


John Tozer
#7946

[John Tozer #7946]

Try again with photo

[John Tozer #7946]

Whoops again....

[DanS]

Whoops again....

Thanks for the great info John.  I am hoping like heck that this is not as bad off as you maybe thought.  Here is a picture from the driver side which is the worst.  I do not believe that the wood is bad/missing but clearly anything that should be holding it in place (rubber, the metal on the inside with felt, etc) is all loose.

Thanks again and if you have any additional advice, don't hesitate!

Thanks again,
Dan

[tozerco]

Dan,

Now you've taken me a bit out of my league! I only know what I know about real roughies and your car clearly isn't one of those.

It would seem to me that your framing is fairly well intact and that you have just lost the odd garnish moulding screw and clip and need to replace/reinstall these. I was thrown off target a bit by your statement that the "...centre metal piece..." was also falling inward. This can only happen if the "Window Divider" and "Support for Window Divider" shown in my earlier photo separate where they are screwed together (there is a bracket on the bottom of the Divider that screws to the timber support). If you are lucky, the screw will have just fallen out of this bracket and you can re-fix it (still needs the door panel removed I am afraid). If not, the bracket has a habit of rusting away where it joins the timber and the timber and bracket (or even the base of the Divider) can require replacement.

Both my '37 75's have had the garnish mouldings thrown in a box in the back seat and the third one I know of has no garnish mouldings at all! I don't know, therefore, how they were fixed into the door frame.

I can contact someone who has replaced them and see how they are held in but this will take a while as I am about to take a break from home until New Year. Whatever you find out from other sources I would like to know about because I will have to cross those bridges one day soon!


Good Luck,



John Tozer
#7946

[Classic]

If you look in the felt glass track, you will find some small flathead wood screws that hold the felt track in place.  Some of these screws also go thru metal tabs that are attached to the wood garnish molding.  Remove all the flathead wood screws (they are not easy to find).  At the bottom of the garnish molding, there are 2-3 pegs (actually the heads of round head wood screws) that protrude upward into corresponding slots in the underside of the garnish molding.  These are not visible until the garnish molding is removed.  Once all of the flathead screws in the felt track are removed, gently pry out the top of the garnish molding.  When top of the garnish molding is just clear of the door upholstery, lift the garnish molding up off of the pegs.  Piece of cake.

When reinstalling, use the same size flathead wood screws and make sure they are well recessed in the new felt glass track.  Otherwise you will chip your window glass when you roll the window up.

Picture shows slot on a rear quarter window molding.

[Edward Hurst]

Classic,

I have been searching for this information for a good while now.  I have been helping my good friend build a 37 Cadillac 7019 Fleetwood that has the same wood garnish.  It has been so long since we disassembled the doors that we have completely forgotten how the garnish was held in place.  Do you possibly have any pictures of the small tabs that are nailed to the garnish so I can replicate them?
I replaced all the wood in the doors with metal several years ago but we stopped working on them due to work/job requirements.  I now have all the old regulators that have been replaced with electric power windows and door locks.  We have been frantically searching for the retaining clips that held the garnish in place and you have helped us considerably.
One other thing I might ask... can you tell me the width of the felt track the window slides in, and does it have the stainless bead around it?  The felt track we have been trying to use is about 5/8" to 11/16" wide and it is too thick.  We are going to have to purchase a thinner felt track so If you can give me a pretty good idea it really help.

Thanks a great deal,

Ed