thinking about buying a 78 eldo

[Doug 22747]

going to look at the car tomorrow, anything to be concerned about/look for??  thx

[okccadman]

Look for rust under the vinyl top.  Check the bumper fillers.

[Doug 22747]

Look for rust under the vinyl top.  Check the bumper fillers.

Thanks, you don't have enough cars

[76eldo]

If you are anywhere near PA I have a nice 76 Eldorado Cp with 14K miles on it...

Brian

[TJ Hopland]

Since the car in your avatar photo looks to be a similar vintage I will assume you are asking about specific Eldo/FWD issues.

The 71-78 style seem to be fairly hard on front end components.  Ball joints tend to wear out sooner than you would normally expect.  Wheel bearings also wear more than the RWD versions and are much more expensive to replace.  Wheel bearings are easy to check, just get the wheel off the ground and grab the tire and wiggle.  If you feel/see any play the bearing is likely shot.  It not a thing that always happens at a certain mileage and I have never seen both sides bad at the same time.  Ball joints are like most cars of the era you need to do some jacking / supporting / prying to tell.   Wheel bearings seem to be around, had one done last year for around $250 and that was carrying in the knuckle.   It takes either special tools or a shop that does a lot of drive line work to properly press in and out the new bearing set.   Ball joints are also around and typical for the era, factory ones are riveted in so rivets must be ground off so new joint can be bolted in.   Steering parts are typical for the era except I believe the pitman arm has a ball joint in it rather than the more typical center link having the joint.

Front brakes are typical GM no issues with parts that I know of.   Rear brakes are disc and I have read that parts including pads are getting harder to come by.  I believe system uses hydro boost rather than vacuum like the other cars did.   The system was commonly used on the diesel cars and light-medium trucks so its not hard to support.

78 eldos still overall were more like 77's, they knew the body was going to change so they did not update several systems like many of the other 78's did.  One example is the fuse box.  Other 78's had the new plastic blade fuses, the eldo kept the glass fuses.

CV axles are similar to modern ones.  Listen for noises going around corners and make sure boots are not cracked.  Shafts are the same length for both sides.  Most stores list a left and right because originally the right? side had a torsional damper in it.  Seems like I read that the factory even quit doing that the last few years.   Not sure how many places are still mass rebuilding them but they are for sure still out there.  When buying replacements check the condition of the boots to make sure they have not been on a shelf for many years and are already rotten.

Transmission internals are pretty much the same as the RWD models so nothing unusual to look for there.  They just bent the case around and used a big chain to hook the pieces back together.  Issues with the chain are extremely rare.   The final drive (differential) is bolted to the end of the transmission and uses standard rear end lube.  Has a cover just like a rear diff.  Has a fill / level check plug in the cover.

Left side exhaust manifolds are prone to cracks.

Nothing else really comes to mind that is unique to the eldo. 

The front suspension and drive system is very much like the 90's independent front 4x4 setup used on the trucks and suv's.  There are differences and as far as I know no parts are interchangeable but if you are ever under a more modern truck you can sure see where they got the idea.     

[Doug 22747]

Thanks very much for the details on the front end stuff, I had a 79 and am now recalling the cracked boots and leaking transmission, and then trying to find the right rear shocks for the air-leveling system, and then the fuel injection issues...

[TJ Hopland]

No EFI option on a 78 eldo, it was still on the Seville and C cars but not on the eldo.  77 eldo did have the option but it must have been an emissions thing and they did not want to update or certify a model that was about to have a serious re design.

Not sure about the factory rear shocks but and the factory level control but I recent replaced the rears on both my 73 and 75.  They were about $80 and in stock at the local warehouses for both Napa and Oriley.  I think one was monroe and the other had gabriel.  The appear to fit many GM models.   Both mine had bad vacuum compressors so I did not even try to make the auto level work.  The 78 has an electric compressor like the 79 had.    I bought a couple electric compressors a few years ago with the idea of installing them hooked to a switch so I could easily adjust them as needed but so far I just have not fell the need.  I often tow with both cars and even then I rarely feel the need to change the level.   I had a 78 deville a couple years ago.  Shocks and compressor were fine but there was some issue with the sensor or control module.  Never bothered to fix that one either.

I dont see the front end issues as a serious problem and like I said its not a thing that at XXX miles they will fail but if you are looking at paying a premium price for the car I wanted to make sure you know you are not dealing with $20 wheel bearing like on a RWD car.   

   

[Doug 22747]

thanks much, the car is priced below average so I expect some issues...just don't want to get into farming repairs out, and I should have my head examined anyway since the boat pictured here takes up most of my garage space!

[TJ Hopland]

What year is 'the boat'?  Between my eyes, size of computer screen, and size of pic I cant quite tell if its a 72-76 or 77-80.

I really like the style of the Eldos not to mention that they tended to come better equipped than the Devilles.

[Doug 22747]

it's a 1975 60S, just drove it out to see the 78 Eldo...80,000 miles ended up being on the rebuilt engine, the left side exhaust manifold was cracked (but car comes with a new gasket!), front seat upholstery shot, miss-matched tires, but the body was decent. Oh well, it was good to exercise my car, and I found gas at $2.16/gallon!!  I wonder how ethanol effects these cars? 

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

I didn't see this in the previous posts, but check the inner and outer front CV joints on the
front axle shafts.  These have rubber boots -- if those boots are torn or cracked, you can
bet that dirt has gotten in and started to damage the bearings.

Drive the car in slow "S turn" circles in a parking lot and listen for tge tell-tale "clickity
click" noise.  This is an expensive repair, not only for the parts but labor pulling the axle
shaft out and replacing the bearings.

As far as the polyurethane "rubber" trim around the bumpers, it it's original, plan on getting
new ones as they will be shot (cracked, brittle).

Good luck!

Mike

[TJ Hopland]

If the car has all original gaskets and hoses in the fuel system even the 10% blends can be hard on things.  It can even be hard on more recent materials.  I have noticed that it makes new fuel lines stiff in a fairly short period of time but at least thats better than turning them to goo like it does to older rubber and plastics.

Another problem is its a good solvent so it will tend to clean things up.  If the car has lots of crap built up in the system (which they often do because the have usually sat for some period in their lives) it can flush things out too quickly and plug things up. 

If you live in a climate that gets hot in the summer it lowers the vapor pressure of the fuel so its more prone to vapor lock issues.

It contains less energy than gas so it takes more to do the same amount of work.

There are up sides but none of them that are going to make any difference to a stock vintage car. 

We have had the 10% blends in my area for almost 20 years now.  It started in certain areas certain periods of the year then they worked it to state wide year round.  Some groups fought (and won) for vendors to have the option of a premium non blended fuel so at least for some people its an option.    At first there were problems like I mentioned above.  It was the older stuff (at the time) that had the most issues.   The last 5 years or so I hardly hear of any issues because most of the parts have been compatible since the 90's and if you have an engine that has not been touched since before that it likely has other issues that could be causing problems so you cant just blame the fuel.   I do hear some buzz about it in areas that are just now getting it and its all the same thing that happened when we first got it here.  Some think its the end of the world.   Good part is since its pretty common now that all the manufactures have come up with ways to deal with it.  Other than the vapor lock (which is why I went EFI on my summer car) all my issues seemed to be more old age stuff that needed to be addressed anyway so I dont like it but it really has not been that big of a deal.

[Doug 22747]

Most of the stations around here (Atlanta) have the 10% blend, I've had no problems running it in the caddie so far...I don't even know where I can find straight gas anymore.  I did experience multiple oxygen sensor failure on my daily driver, but the car has 100,000 miles on it and the mechanics tell me it's not uncommon...but when the onboard computer told me one of the converters was bad, I started researching the subject and, as you said, it's the end of the world. For the Cadillac, though, I am concerned about effects on the carb mainly...

[Otto Skorzeny]

Hi Doug, I too live in Atlanta. E10 has been mandated for the entire metro area counties for the last 2 years or so. You canstill get ethanol-free gas at rural stations I'm told.

I'm leaving or Florida later this week and will be looking closely at the stations along the way to see if any of them outside the metro area have real gas.

[Doug 22747]

Thanks, I buy it in Clayton when I'm there, but that's a heck of a drive--there must be some closer.   

[TJ Hopland]

In MN it started as 'winter blend' in the 7 county metro area.  It would seem logical (if thats possible for government)  that other states are going to start in the large metro areas also since thats where the most usage is and therefore the most of what ever the goal is weather it be profit, or environment.

Check with larger car clubs in your area.  In MN the Minnesota Street Rod Association is the largest 'local' group and was one of the groups that got the exception written into the books.  They maintain a list on their website of the locations that carry the non oxy fuel in the area  I would think other car clubs in other areas may do the same thing.  If not it may be time to start something.  Dont forget there are 'off road' people that may be interested in such a list also.  If you live by water thats another place where there tends to be lots of vintage engines.

[bcroe]

Any FWD car has some additional difficulties compared to RWD.  But with experience they are not so bad.  The original FWD wheel bearings on a multi decades old car are going to be short lived, because the grease is dried out & useless.  I avoided this problem by adding grease fittings to mine, keeping it fresh.  On my 79 Eldo There were handling problems; I tried everything, but the key fix was KYB shocks.  The rear shocks can be replaced by non leveling KYB  KG5573 if you use stronger springs or compressed air lift bags.  I found the trans was OK with regular fluid & filter changes, except these models break an accumulator spring which is replaced in a mild shift kit.  The fuel injection has issues, but I eliminated the 2 primary failure modes with updated fuel pump power & MAP sensor.  That, plus carrying a spare ECU, HEI base (never used them), and temp sensor (used that), avoided any serious breakdowns.  Most of this is shown on my PHOTOBUCKET  Bruce Roe CLC # 14630

     http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l71/bcroe/

(that is a lower case "L"71, not an upper case "i"71)

  click on an Album at left

[76eldo]

I would not let front end problems or needed repairs deter me from buying a particular car.  The parts are readily available, and the repairs aren't too expensive.  if you drive the car as a weekend cruiser, and not every single day, you may make these repairs once and probably will never have to touch the front end again.

I had one torn boot on my 76, and replaced both sides and all of the ball joints.  The bushings still looked like new, and there were no other problems found.  if runs like a new car.

The biggest thing with these cars is rust, and prior lack of maintenance. Rear quarters, hood and trunk edges seem to be areas that rust out on these cars, and bodywork and paint can be expensive.  Also check the interior doorpanels for being re-capped.   there is no good way to repair ripped or damaged arm rests.  The upper doorpanels have a king of puckered vinyl material that dries out from exposure to sunlight.  The material gets brittle and splits.  The upper door panels come off easily, and this material can be recovered using vinyl that matches the lower door panel material.  I have never seen anyone recover the uppers with the original stuff.

Also check to see if the dash pad(s) have overlays on them.  if they do, not a huge deal, but an original nice dash pad is preferred.

There are a lot of nice Eldorados out there with very reasonable prices.  I have a 1976 for sale, and know of a beautiful triple white injected 77 Biarritz for sale.

Don't settle for a car that needs major work in any area unless you are getting a great deal on the car.

Good luck,

Brian