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Water pump difference for aircon and non aircon 1957?

Started by 57flw, January 07, 2010, 11:00:17 PM

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57flw

Hi Guys,

I received another water pump when I got my bits for the airconditioner that I am going to fit to my 1957 Fleetwood.

I cannot see any physical difference between what should be a non aircon pump  and an aircon one.

Is the difference internal?

Regards

Ken
Ken Francis
Hervey Bay
Queensland, Australia
1957 Series 60 Special Fleetwood
Skype: fleetwood1957

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

Ken,

My book shows one water pump for all Cadillac's in 1957.

Looks like 1959 was the first year there was a difference in water pumps between Air Conditioned Cars and Non AC cars.

John W
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

John W.,
Not sre what book you have but my 1966 MPB shows AC & non AC. I think the difference is in the shaft length. Different in 58 also.
HTH, Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

Bob,

I am using the master rebuilders water pump book, it only shows one casting nmber and one pump. Could be that Cadillac started off with 2 pumps then went to one? Who knows.

On the 59 the difference is in the depth of the bolt holes, they are cut down on the AC version to allow for the brackets.

John W
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

John,
You know how those rebuilders are... one size fits all. LOL Maybe there's only one casting # but I'm sure the difference is the shaft or flange length. I trust the MPB.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

Bob,

Checked a few of the MPB also, clearly shows two different water pumps. Funny, the 56 has only one water pump listed in MPB, but it might be the last year they used to belts for the AC.

Ken, do you have the casting # on the pumps, can you share?

John W
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

57flw

Hi Bob and John,

Thanks for your input so far.
The casting numbers are as follows:

Original non aircon pump 1465323-2.
Replacement aircon pump 1465323-4.

Ken
Ken Francis
Hervey Bay
Queensland, Australia
1957 Series 60 Special Fleetwood
Skype: fleetwood1957

cadman49

hi ken. i have a 57 w/air & it has more blades on the impeller than a non air. also it has cast iron w/pump pulley & crank pulley---very heavy!!! i changed over to stamped steel pulleys when i took air unit off. what a difference in r.p.m--power. just my 2 cents worth,lol.--cadman 49.

Warren Rauch

  I've wondered why these pumps are listed this way ,too. So here is what I found. The impellers are the same on all 55-62 pumps (#146 2530) . The hubs and shafts are not sold separate by Cadillac. The shafts could be bought from New Departure.( 57-58 all.59-60 all,61-62 all) This seems strange since Cadillac did in fact use different length shafts for air/non air and made changes mid year.
   The Serviceman lists two mid year changes . Late 1958 (serial#1092200 air/ 113900 non air} when the shaft was lengthened  .080 ". And in mid  1960 ( serial 070921 air / 070914 non air) when the air pumps were lengthened a second .080". (It doesn't say why they give the non air serial?)
   In 1957 when the shop manual was printed , they used the same procdure for rebuilding both pumps. By 1958 , a new fixture was avalible to hold the pump. And with it a shim, used only for air models. The shim , .094" thick ,spaces the hub .094 " closer to the end of the shaft. The shim was used on all air models thru 1961. So the hub is what they are playing with. (trying for better pulley alinement and a  longer distance into the fan spacer) Now recall from above that the Serviceman says the shafts are now longer, but in each case they made a new shim to push the hub back further. Then in 1962 ,they dropped the .094 shim and one of the .080 shims, so it ended up almost in the same place.
    All this playing around for no more than .160 " ( 1/6"). No wonder the after market people didn't want all those pumps on the shelf. Warren

Roger Zimmermann

For what I heard, the internal of the pumps is identical (I did not check). The difference is in the hub where the fan is attached. For cars with A/C, the hub is thicker, putting the flange further from the pump to accomodate a different pulley.
When I repalced the water pump from my '57 Brougham, I had a non A/C pump. I had to manufacture a spacer to have the pulleys correctly aligned.
On the reproduced water pumps available today, it seems the the hub can be pushed down the axle if the car is not equipped with A/C. (not verified either)

Roger
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

John Morris #23947

The difference is the hub that the pulley bolts to. A/C pumps have a thicker hub.
71 Olds 98 LS, 66 Fairlane 500 XL Convertible, 55 Packard Clipper Super, 58 Edsel Ranger, 72 Cheyenne Super, many 49-60 parts cars, abandoned "House Of Doom" full of 49-60 parts. Huge piles of engine parts, brackets, tin, Hydramatic & Jetaway parts,  thousands of stainless moldings, dozens of perfect sedan doors.