News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

61 390 no spark at coil???

Started by Eugene, March 24, 2010, 06:16:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Eugene

I have a 61 deville with a 390.  It wAs running rough and I found that the ignition coil was leaking as there was fluid all over underneath it.
I replaced the coil and now I have no spark.  Test coil and ignition wires and everything cheked out good.  What could it be?

Otto Skorzeny

Have you checked your points, condenser, cap, rotor?
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

Eugene


Jim Sparrow

Are you getting power to the coil from the ignition switch?    -Jim

Dan LeBlanc

Are your points closing all the way?  I made a rookie mistake of not adjusting them properly and they were not closing.  No spark.  Adjusted them properly, started in 1/2 turn.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

How about the kick down resistor? If they go bad no spark.

John W
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

TJ Hopland

I have had new condensers that were shorted.  Result is no spark.

I have seen the ground wire that grounds the plate that the points mount to come apart when changing points.

'Kickdown resistor'  usually called ballast resistor.    Not sure if that era used a wire or an actual resistor block.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

35-709

Did you use the newer "all in one" condenser and points, they wouldn't work for me in my 1960 390.  Try putting the original points and
condenser back in.  If it fires up then take that new junk back and get the good old-fashioned separate points and condenser, NAPA has them.
Geoff N.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Dan LeBlanc

Quote from: TJ Hopland on March 24, 2010, 10:54:10 PM
I have had new condensers that were shorted.  Result is no spark.

I have seen the ground wire that grounds the plate that the points mount to come apart when changing points.

'Kickdown resistor'  usually called ballast resistor.    Not sure if that era used a wire or an actual resistor block.

1961 used a resistor wire.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Eugene

Got power to coil.  Bench tested coil with ohm meter and it checked out.  It has all in one point and condenser.  Not sure if points are opening and closing all the way I will have to check that an maybe try different points.

Robert Meyers

Please place an analogue volt meter or test light across outer terminals of coil and operate the starter. Light should turn off/on/off/on rapidly as engine is cranked. Meter pointer would deflect in a similar fashion. Please report back. This test will confirm the entire primary circuit.

Best of luck to you!
1988 & '89 Broughams. 2 X 1992 Fleetwood. 1956 Packard Patrician. 1978 Peugeot 504 Wagon. 1975 Ford Custom 500 Wagon, 1972 Lincoln Continental.

Dan LeBlanc

Here is a post from the 61-62 Cadillac Owner's Group.  You should join us . . . www.61-62cadillacs.com

Step by Step Diagnosis (trouble shooting):

Spark voltages are normally 5,000 volts to 15,000 volts and can be 40,000 volts.

Before beginning, make sure the coil wire and spark plug wires are dry and in good condition.

1) Disconnect both sides of the coil (+) and (-)

2) Check primary resistance of the coil from the (+) to the (-). Resistance should fit the following table

a) 1.5 ohms +/- 6 volt or 12 volt external resistor

b) 3.0 ohms +/- 12 volt internal resistor

c) 6.0 ohms +/- 24 volt

3) If the primary resistance checks NOT OK replace coil. If it checks OK continue to step 4

4) Check secondary resistance of the coil from the (-) to the high voltage connection. Resistance should fit the following table

a) 8,000 to 11,000 ohms +/- 6 volt or 12 volt external resistor

b) 8,000 to 11,000 ohms +/- 12 volt internal resistor

c) 8,000 to 11,000 ohms +/- 24 volt

5) If the secondary resistance checks NOT OK replace coil. If it checks OK continue to step 6

6) Connect a jumper form the (+) side of the coil to the (+) side of the battery.

7) Connect a jumper from the (-) side of the coil and leave it hang in air.

Disconnect the coil wire from the distributor

9) Holding the coil wire RUBBER INSULATION. Hold the metal end close to the engine (1/8” to 3/8”)

10) Ground the wire from the (-) side of the coil (step #7) and un-ground it.

a) If no spark occurred, recheck for proper application of #6 through #10

i) If still no spark replace the coil wire with a known good coil wire and continue with #10

ii) You MUST have spark in this step before continuing to next step.

If all else fails replace the coil with a known good coil. Coils have been known to pass the resistance check but break down under load

b) When spark occurs then proceed to next step.

11) Connect the normal wire from the vehicle to the (+) coil terminal and turn ignition ON.

12) Check voltage at coil (+) terminal.

a) No battery voltage. Repair vehicle wiring.

b) Normal battery voltage? Continue

13) Perform #7 through #10

a) If no spark occurred, recheck for proper application of #7 through #10

b) When spark occurs then proceed to next step.

14) Connect the (-) side of the coil.

15) Holding the coil wire RUBBER INSULATION. Hold the metal end close to the engine (1/8” to 3/8”)

16) Have assistant run starter motor (Turn key, press button, step on starter, etc)

a) When spark occurs then proceed with #17

b) If no spark occurs then proceed to POINTS NOT FIRING COIL

17) Plug coil wire back in distributor.

18) Remove a spark plug wire from a spark plug.

19) Connect the spark plug wire to a spare spark plug with the gap set to at least 0.035”. (1/8” to ¼” is better)

20) Position the spark plug so the threads are touching the cylinder head and the gap is visible.

21) Have assistant run starter motor (Turn key, press button, step on starter, etc)

a) When spark occurs then proceed with #22

b) If no spark occurs then proceed to NO SPARK TO SPARK PLUGS

22) Repeat #18 through #21 for each spark plug wire

a) When spark occurs at each spark plug then proceed

b) If no spark occurs then proceed to NO SPARK TO SPARK PLUGS

23) Remove spark plugs

24) Clean and gap them to 0.035”

25) You now should have spark at all plugs.




POINTS NOT FIRING COIL

1) Remove distributor cap

2) Insert a piece of paper between the contact points

3) Check voltage at the movable arm of the points

a) No battery voltage. Repair wiring from coil to points

b) Normal battery voltage? Continue

4) Turn ignition switch off

5) Rotate the engine such that the movable arm of the points rests on the top of the distributor lobe

6) Set the point gap to 0.020”

7) Holding the coil wire RUBBER INSULATION. Hold the metal end close to the engine (1/8” to 1/4”)

Have assistant run starter motor (Turn key, press button, step on starter, etc)

a) When spark occurs then proceed with #8

b) If no spark occurs

i) File points to remove pitting â€" repeat #4 - #7

ii) Replace condenser â€" repeat #4 - #7

9) Replace Rotor and cap continue with Step #17 above



NO SPARK TO SPARK PLUGS

If there is spark from the coil wire to the distributor and not to the spark plugs the problem is

Inside the distributor

Cap

Rotor

Spark plug wires



Inside the distributor

1) Check distributor cap for cracks and carbon tracks

a) If cracks or carbon tracks â€" Replace distributor cap

2) Check the rotor for carbon tracks

a) If carbon tracks â€" Replace rotor



Spark plug wires

Replace with known good spark plug wires

Return to Step #21 above



back to top


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oddities - Weird thing I have found:

Wire terminal crimped to insulation - not the conductor.
Wire from distributor coil connection to points grounded / or broken.
Bolt where coil wire connects to the distributor grounded to coil.
Resistance from distributor body to block is not ZERO.
back to top


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Things to watch-out for:

Spark voltages are normally 5,000 volts to 15,000 volts and can be 40,000 volts.
Before beginning, make sure the coil wire and spark plug wires are dry and in good condition.
If the points are pitted in a short time, the coil may be the wrong voltage for the application and / or condenser may be defective.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Eugene

Points were not opening.  Got them set and car is runing ok.  Makes a whiring noise coming from under the car though.  Never noticed that before.  Not sure what it could be.

Jim Sparrow

That's great news! Glad she's running again!     -Jim

Dan LeBlanc

Quote from: Eugene on March 25, 2010, 08:49:50 PM
Points were not opening.  Got them set and car is runing ok.  Makes a whiring noise coming from under the car though.  Never noticed that before.  Not sure what it could be.

Perhaps check your transmission fluid.  My 62 would howl a bit if the fluid was low.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Eugene

Quote from: Jim Sparrow on March 25, 2010, 09:13:26 PM
That's great news! Glad she's running again!     -Jim
thanks
the tranny fluid is good.  The noise sounds as if it is coming from the rear of the engine but is intermitent.