I need this car (41 conv. cpe) Help please

[Rick Peterson #25685]

New listing on E-bay. 1941 Cadillac conv. coupe. Yellow in color. I'm really serious about this. Does anybody know this car. Will anyone please look at pics and offer feedback. ..advice, thoughts of value. Thank you all

Rick Peterson

[Ned]

This car?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Fabulous-1941-Cadillac-Convertible-Coupe-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35a9c67fc3QQitemZ230481625027QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

Number 230481625027 ?

[Otto Skorzeny]

Beautiful car. Yellow is my favorite color.

I've never understood why anyone with an award winning car like that (or any car for that matter) would screw one of those cheap looking CCCA award badges to the side of the hood. Put a sticker in the windshield or a badge on the license plate but don't permanently deface the car with rust-inducing machine screws to affix that cheesy-looking badge.

If I were judging that car I'd mark it down on just on the principal of the thing.

[Rick Peterson #25685]

Yes, that is the car. What are your thoughts. I agree about the badge.

[35-709]

Mr. Peterson,
I live in Vero Beach, FL and while I have not been active in the local AACA chapter for several years one of my very good friends is active locally and has been for 30 or so years.  For some background, my friend restored and still owns an AACA Senior award winning 1927 Rolls Royce.  He is very familiar with this '41 convertible coupe and the owner as well.  I just got off the phone with my friend and he assures me that the car and the gentleman that owns it are both 100%.  He says that you would be buying one of the best available should you win the auction. 
Geoff N.
     

[buicksplus]

It looks to me like a beautiful older high point restoration.  The engine compartment has a little wear and tear evident, the it has lots of great detailing intact.  

These cars are worth a lot, the 41's are beautiful especially convertible coupes.  Standard shift is a plus too.  The starting bid number sounds reasonable but no bargain.  If I were interested in this car, the first thing I would do is hop on a plane to Florida.   You could probably get there for $500 or less -- well worth the cost considering the value of the car.  There is no substitute for seeing the car and talking to the owner.  Look for rust, pitted chrome, and drive it.  If you're not comfortable checking it out mechanically, you can probably find a local mechanic who will.  Florida is not the friendliest environment for old cars.

Good luck!

Bill S

[Rick Peterson #25685]

Thanks for the replys, I owned a 41 conv.coupe, bought it in 1978, long gone now but would like another. Mine had the three speed manual. The fasteners that hold the rear seat side panels ,leather over steel don't look familiar to me. memory may be playing tricks.

[35-709]

Best thing to do, as Bill S says, is to hop an airliner and look at it up close and personal.  If you like, my friend and I will go look at it for you, especially if you have any particular areas of concern although my friend feels there should be none.  The owner is honest and above board, if you have any questions (such as about the fasteners that hold the rear seat panels that you mentioned) contact him and I am certain you will get a complete and honest answer.
Geoff N.

[Doug Houston]

OK, so it's a CCCA senior car. I tend to feel, as does Otto S., about putting the senior badge on the car with sheet metal screws....or even some adhesives, I suppose. I'll never have to worry abut it, because my cars are never judged, nor would come within a light year of being a senior.

Note, that the color isn't a standard n'41 ncolor, thogh it might be Italian Cream, which is a '38 Cadilac color, which was used quite a few times on special order after 1938.

As far as I'm  co ncerned, if the car did have a postwar Hydra-Matic, I'd appreciate it (and probably be the only guy on the planet who would).

We'll be seeing something in a near future Self-Stater about this, but I'd like to know the engine number on this job. Don't have it handy now, but before a certain engine number, the frames on convertibles (coupes and sedans) weren't properly reinforced, and the bodies would spring badly, if the car is jacked from the rear axle.

However, the car is beautiful, nand more perfect than anything I've ever owned. Go inspect it, and if affordable, buy it.

[Rick Peterson #25685]

I will travel to Vero Beach to look at this car this weekend. Please keep all thoughts ,observations on pics and advice comeing.

Geoff, thank you for your generous offer to look at the car. I will contact you through E-mail and would really appreciate you and your friend looking with me. I will buy lunch and,or dinner.

Doug, I will try to get data plate info and will post. Hope you ,or others can help decifer for me.

You all are the best. Thanks for the help.

[Terry Wenger]

Rick:

Because of that"cheesy" CCCA Premier badge on that car you know that the car has been judged as a winner at least three times which tells you something of its history. The color as Doug said would be Italian Cream, a '38 color.

A note on the CCCA badge. I have three of them all screwed to the cowls of my cars. I restore my own cars and was proud to screw them on.  Both the Cadillac LaSalle Club and the Classic Car Club awarded these badges to the car, not the owner, so that the car has a record of being a winner and cannot be readily judged in the same class again opening the field for more cars to win in that class.

The badge is cast from brass, plated  and filled with real Cloisonne enamel. This is far better quality badge than the plastic and anodized aluminum emblems used on many fifties Cadillacs.

Terry

[Rick Peterson #25685]

Terry, thanks for the input. I am an 'open' person and appreciate your point. I now look at the "cheesy" badge in a new light.
Aside from the badge issue..can you please offer some advice, thoughts. I am an excited prospective buyer...please forgive the urgent pestering on my part. You have an impressive collection.

[Otto Skorzeny]

I get your point too Terry however, couldn't the CCCA give grille badges or some other form of award that doesn't permanently mar the car's finish and promote rust?

If they're going to insist on affixing the award to the sheet metal, at least come up with a badge that hides the crappy looking screws. Maybe from the backside or a set screw or something. My toilet paper holder is attached to the wall with more aesthetics than those things.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Geoff, thank you for your generous offer to look at the car. I will contact you through E-mail and would really appreciate you and your friend looking with me. I will buy lunch and,or dinner.

That sounds like a fun day. I wish I had an excuse to be down there next week!

[j Gehring]

I believe it was the first 1600 conv coupes in 1941 that don't have the plate welded on the top & botom of the center of the X in the frame.  It was added to add rigidity to the frame.  While I agree it's better have it, are you going to be driving over railroad tracks at 50 mph?  I wouldn't let an early body number stop you from buying the car.  I agree if it were updated with a later hydra-matic that would be a positive and have no affect on value at all.  The easiest way to tell if it has a 1941 engine is look on the passanger side of the block near the waterpump.  If there's a flat spot with a serial number on it - then it's the wrong engine - a later one.  1941's have the engine number at the back of the block.       

[j Gehring]

One other thing, the 1941 conv coupe we have is a early one and doesn't have the reinforcing plate on the frame.  Our car is basically an original car that was painted in the 1950's and had the engine rebuilt in the late 1980's.  The doors fit perfect on it, and we've had it jacked up countless times from the rear axle and the front cross member.   I thought the difference was in the ride of the car over large bumps where the body could flex a bit.  Our car has over 100K miles on it and the doors fit perfect.   

[Rick Peterson #25685]

Otto,You do have an"excuse".....helping a fellow man. Sounds good to me, and you are more than welcome.

Thanks for the info "j", will keep in mind.

More input from all is wanted.

[Terry Wenger]

Rick:

Now that I have the badge thing off my mind I will give you some more positive information. The '41 and earlier engines have round corners on the cylinder block, looking at the engine in this car, the corners look to be rounded, not square as in the '42 and later engines. You questioned the fastening of the panel next to the rear seat using screws and finishing washers. My '47 convertible has these same fasteners only positioned further back as I have quarter windows. I have never done a '41 but Doug Houston has and should be able to verify. You will notice the chrome pin beading or moldings on the front, main bow and rear of the top and the red interior matching binding on the top. These details are correct and are often not used on restorations.

My '47 convertible is essentially the same color(Lotus Cream) with red leather interior and is a standard shift, but with a tan top. So what else could I say but that the '41 is one nice looking car. Go for it!

Terry

[TonyZappone #2624]

I know the car and the people that own it.  Both are class acts.  As far as the CCCA badges are concerned, I have them on three of my cars, most people don't put them in with screws.  The screw heads are cemented into the holes, and the emblems are put on with emblem tape.  As far as being "cheesy" I find that statement totally inaccurate and somewhat disrespectful to a very prestigious club.  I am not real active with the CCCA, but most clubs should have as much class as they do.

[srk1941]

I have a '41 convertible coupe, and mine has the chrome screws and washers on the rear side panels.  It is a Jenkins kit.

This color combination is SPECTACULAR, in my opinion....very striking and beautiful on this car.