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Which year to buy ('60-'64 Deville)???

Started by PhotoEd, June 07, 2010, 07:09:13 PM

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PhotoEd

Afternoon all,
I'm losing A LOT of sleep trying to decide which year to buy.  I'm definitely leaning towards the 1960-1964 years (Deville), and am close to pulling the trigger on a '62 Series 62.  

Can anyone share tips/warnings on the '62 and is any of the other years unquestionably better than the other?  Where can I find info on the difference between a "Series 62" and other models?

Thanks and nice to be here!


Davidinhartford

1962 is a good year.    Cornering lamps debuted that year, as did a dual chamber master cylinder.    The difference in models is really trim and features.  The Devilles come with a few more frills than a base 62.    A series 60 Fleetwood has even more.     1962 also had a new roof line for the four window sedans which gave them a formal, yet airy look.      I think any of the 60-64s are a good choice.   Many guys like the 64s for their turbo hydramatic transmissions.

Richard Sills - CLC #936

My suggestion is to buy the car that is in the best condition of all the cars you find (assuming you like the body style and color).  All of those years are inherently very good cars. 

The Series 62 cars had less standard equipment.  In those years, the deVilles had power windows and seat standard, while the Series 62 did not.  However, many Series 62 cars were optioned up to the same level as the more expensive models.  (I have a Series 62 that is even equipped with power vent windows, a rare option on the more expensive series.)  When equipment levels are the same, the only difference is generally in the interior trim.  The deVille has a fold-down armrest in the center of the front seat while the Series 62 does not.  The deVille has leather trim but the Series 62 trim is "coated fabric" (which I think means vinyl).

There is a more significant difference between the series in 1964, when the Series 62 cars have the older version of Hydramatic (with reverse at the bottom like the older cars), while the deVille and Fleetwood models have the newer Turbo-Hydramatic. 

In summary, all the choices you mention are good ones.  Best of luck and I hope you enjoy your purchase, whichever model it is.


Carfreak

#3
IMO stay away from the 1964-67 429 and for that matter, the 1963 390 also.   Beautiful cars, but they seem to have too many inherent engine problems:  low oil pressure problems, timing cover/external oil pump, thin cylinder walls, waterpump cross over leakage, etc.  

Yeah, I know several people are going to jump in and defend the engine, but try doing a search using terms like 429 with leak, oil pressure, noise, problem,etc.  There are sooo many threads with persons having (429) engine problems.  Just my opinion.....

http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,107864.0.html
http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,100593.0.html
http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,74751.0.html
http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,110191.0.html
http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,104221.0.html
http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,101942.0.html
http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,98112.0.html


In years past, I've owned and drove many Cadillacs with these engines (429 / 63 390) and have sworn off owning them anymore.  

PS - the general consensus is to use two o-rings when trying to seal the cross over to prevent it from leaking.
Enjoy life - it has an expiration date.

PhotoEd

Thanks everyone!  This is EXACTLY the kind of information I was looking for.

Looks like the '62 needed a bit more work than I was ready for, so the search goes on!

Any benefit of the '60 over the '61 (or other way around)?


Otto Skorzeny

1960 is more popular with collectors so will usually cost more. That's a pro and a con all in one.

The reverse is true for the 1961 but is still a pro and con all in one.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

Guidematic

 Car Freak is correct with the concerns regarding the '63 390 and 429's first available in the '64's. That front cover is the Achilles heel of the whole engine which can lead to low oil pressure due to a worn casting.

In '63 Cadillac re-engineered the 390 with new thin wall casting techniques. Also the distributor was moved to the front of the engine and held by an aluminum front accessory cover/timing chain housing. The bored out 429 left very little material for future rebuilding. I think it was a stop gap until the new 472 was ready in '68. Many 429's had oil burning issues as well.

Now this is not to say that all of them were bad, but just be careful and ask a lot of questions if looking at one of these cars. There still are many good ones out there.

But, the '64 was the first year for Comfort Control, and deVille and Fleetwood 60 Specials also got the new Turbo Hydra-Matic with the variable pitch convertor. An excellent transmission. I also prefer the styling of the '64 over the '63.

Mike
1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1985 Eldorado Coupe 6EL57
1988 Eldorado Biarritz 6EL57
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69

Alan Harris CLC#1513

If you are fond of functional heat and air conditioning, you might want to avoid 1964 due to the Climate Control. These were fiendishly complicated and were hard and expensive to fix when these cars were just a few years old.

dadscad

As others have mentioned, there are some issues to be aware of for the 63/64 years. But, that is true of other years also and those issues can be addressed and dealt with. You may want to visit two chat boards dedicated to the 63/64 Cadillacs. You will find a large group of people with a lot of knowledge about these cars willing to share their experience with anyone. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_6364_club/      http://6364cadillac.multiply.com/

I have a 63 CDV that my Dad purchased new. Mom and Dad put 99 thousand miles on this car before improperly storing it for eleven years. I inherited the car in 91. Since that time I've put 114 thousand miles on the car. With having over 200 K miles on my car, indicates they will go down the road with proper care. Have there been issues others have mentioned, yes some, and they were dealt with and the car is still running down the road. I don't think these cars are something to shy away from, but, I guess I would be a little prejudice, eh?

If you find a 63/64 Cadillac that you like and it is in good condition, you shouldn't have any greater difficulty maintaining it than any other year. The climate control system on the 64 being more complex than previous years systems could be an issue if it is not intact and hopefully operational. Although, there are members on the 63/64 boards that understand the system and are willing to share their knowledge to repair it.

Any car in good condition from 60 - 64 should make a fine addition to your family! Just be patient and find the car in the best condition you can afford that really turns your crank, you will be a happy camper.

Good Luck, Hope you find the car of your dreams!

Enjoy The Ride,
David Thomas CLC #14765
1963 Coupe deVille

Otto Skorzeny

I'd have to agree with Dadscad.

Virtually every car/year you can think of has idiosyncracies, quirks and problems that are particular that vehicle alone.

Watch out for the 429 engine, 1956 transmissions are "problematic", Q-jets are difficult, etc. etc.

Buy the best example of the car you like the most and diligently work to keep it in working order and up to factory specs. Keep up with problems and fix them correctly as soon as they occur.

When I bought my '56 I had never heard anything about the tranny. I put tens of thousands of miles on it as if it were any other car before I heard about all the "problems" it's supposed to have. It shifts smoother than my Ford F100.

fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

Guidematic


Exactly, no car is perfect. There are issues with each and every year of car. Some are worse or better. But you have to make the decision as to what car you like, then look at the issues that affect it.

I get this sort of stuff all the time. The mere mention of the HT4100 will prompt a litany of comments, many that are completely ignorant to the real issues, all the while there are many thousands of cars that have performed completely trouble free over the decades. And their owners have not known of these issues at all.

Once you are armed with good knowledge of the car, then you can do what it takes to avoid the bad ones and find yourself a good car, and maintain it in such a manner where it will perform flawlessly over many years.

Mike
1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1985 Eldorado Coupe 6EL57
1988 Eldorado Biarritz 6EL57
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69

PhotoEd

Again, thanks for your time everyone.  Every evening is spent learning more and more!  My 2000 DTH is getting lonely out in the garage.   ;D

I really like the front end of the '60, but like the rear on the '61-'62...the search goes on.


Sweede64

Well, i cant get enogh looking at my -61 vert.  It kind of grows on mee, the moore i see the car the more i like the design. And the ride i second to none of a modern car, rebuild front end and new brakes it runs and stops perfectly.
In my opinion the -61 design is slicker and more flowing than the -60. The 390 is on its top in relayebility and performance, tranny is bullitproof and chassie is updated.

My 2 cent.
Thomas
Thomas Karlström

Miguel

Hi.
Any of those years will please you well for Sundays afternoon licking.
To truly drive it often, I would prefer to avoid a '61 because of single circuit brakes, a '63 because of unique year engine parts availability.
It would then be a '62 or '64  :)
Miguel

Dan LeBlanc

Very easy to convert a 61 to dual circuit system!
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Misfit

I did it to my '59. I put in a '68 master and booster. Put in a pipe plug on the distribution block, and ran all new lines.
I also had to elongate the holes in the firewall to accomodate the wider bolt pattern on the '68 booster.

Took all of a few hours.

Fins

mrspeedyt

s. twitchell

PhotoEd


sirjimi

The '60-'64 fin years were the exact years in my search as well.  :-)  While the '59 had the most famous fins, that year was a little out of my price range.  I also preferred the more subdued fins that came after. 

My personal favorite years were the 61 and 62.  All else being equal, I prefered the 61 the best.  Fin size was just right for me - slightly bigger than 62.  I personally liked the lines of the 61 a little better than the 62.  For example, I love the line that starts near the top of the headlight, goes to the back, wraps around the trunk, and up to the top of the other headlight - unbroken.  The 62 breaks that line with the tail light.  Of course, I'm nitpicking because I would have easily bought the 62 as well if the right car came around at the right time.  Either one is beautiful in its own way.

I ended up purchasing a '61 and should get it delivered within the next few weeks.  I can't wait.   :)

Best of luck on your search!
1961 Deville

PhotoEd

Sirjimi,
Seems we notice the same things...I agree with the lines of the '61, but think I may regret not having the lower skegs of the '62.  Those really push my buttons!

Congrats on the new ride!