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1957 Headlight switch Circuit Breaker Trouble need help

Started by Bill Balkie 24172, July 20, 2010, 09:44:04 PM

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Bill Balkie 24172

Hello ,
   I Went for a ride in the car tonight  and noticed a  funny smell and very faint smoke coming out of the  driver side dash pad for about maybe 5 seconds .  I pulled over and looked for the problem  but everything looked  ok . no smoke  the car ran great .   Then i noticed  i had no turn signals , and the headlight were not working . I was only a mile from my house , so i drove home  and parked the car in the driveway. opened the hood , turned on the lights and found a solenoid ( under the Autronic eye box )  Marked Guide  5946545   12 V  Bat.  This solenoid was cycling on and off erratically .and the parking lights were going  blinking faintly .  I  replaced the headlight switch about 3 years ago with a nos switch that had a perfect rheostat because i wanted the instrument dimmer to work .  i read that the headlight switch has a circuit breaker built into the switch .  My question is....  Do i replace the switch ?   Can the Switch be repaired ?  Or is the problem in that solenoid under the autronic eye box . I had added a picture     Also the other question .  Why Did This Happen ? I did not have my light on ,although my turn signals were on for a few minutes . Your help is always appreciated .
Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

J. Gomez

Bill,

Let’s take this one step at a time, first the smoke could well be from the headlight switch rheostat but without a visual inspection it is just a wild guess. Are the dash panel lights on when you turn the switch to the fist position? Can they be dimmed?

Second the silver box below the Autronic eye amplifier is the power relay for it. The light blue wires are the 12V power, one comes from the headlight switch and the other goes to the amplifier.

Third your parking lights are faint, just the parking lights front and rear? Are your turn signals ok?

These symptoms could be a short somewhere, I would recommend to first inspecting the headlight switch. That thermostatic breaker on the headlight switch is rated for 20A and it supplies power to all of the lights via the switch.

PS Try not to use the car until you get this resolve, last thing you need is a electric fire under the dash.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Bill Balkie 24172

Jose ,
Thanks For Writing Back .  When i returned tonight i had no turn signals , no head lights , or tail lights , or dash lights . the only think that was working was the parking  lights were blinking very weakly  on there on  with the  amplifier power relay making noise as if  it was being activated .
After about 2 hours  I hooked up the battery and turned the head  lights on . they flashed with every cycle of the amplifier power relay .  the Amplifier power relay is cyceling  very often .

Jose ... I think the problem is in the switch . only because i did see smoke coming up thru the dash . I have another switch that works fine except for the  dimmer .   I will get to the bottom of this before i use the car again . that is very good advice .   What bothers me is , something made the 20 amp breaker trip .  Now i am thinking it is not the switch .
  very Concerned ,  Bill

Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

william_b_noble

this is a good time to get serious and do some real troubleshooting.  if I had to guess, I'd agree with others that there is a short somewhere, but maybe not under the dash.  I don't know your exact car, my closest is a '59.  here is what i would do

1. get out your schematic and see if there is a disconnect somewhere - if there is, disconnect it - for example, can you disconnect the autronic eye?  can you disconnect the tail lights and leave only the front lights (or visa versa)  unplug headlights, see if it fixes it (just unplug the bulbs), etc

2. attach an ammeter (disconnect battery, hook up meter) - turn on parking lights - note reading, turn on head lights note peak reading - see if it's < 20 amps

if 2=yes, you may well have a bad switch.  if 2=no, it's not the switch.  look for where the excess current is going -
Bill N - clc # 2371

Bill Balkie 24172

Jose , I am getting to the bottom of this . Before i took the car out tonight I screwed on the cover to my power trunk motor . It was missing 3 screws . I was thinking at 11Pm eastern time that maybe i drilled thru a wire .  And sure enough i did .   Now the headlights work fine . The Dash dimmer work fine . Here is the proplem now .. No turn signals ,however the back tail lights are always on ,even when the  headlight switch is pushed in . They are very bright like the brake is on .  i have to get to bed now ,  At liest i know how it happened . . ... Maybe by shorting out the tailight wires  it effected something else . Maybe the Flasher . Tomorrow is another day .  thanks for your help Jose .

 Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Bill Balkie 24172

  Bill Thanks for your help , Please read my lastest quote to Jose  Thanks Bill
Quote from: william_b_noble on July 20, 2010, 11:23:17 PM
this is a good time to get serious and do some real troubleshooting.  if I had to guess, I'd agree with others that there is a short somewhere, but maybe not under the dash.  I don't know your exact car, my closest is a '59.  here is what i would do

1. get out your schematic and see if there is a disconnect somewhere - if there is, disconnect it - for example, can you disconnect the autronic eye?  can you disconnect the tail lights and leave only the front lights (or visa versa)  unplug headlights, see if it fixes it (just unplug the bulbs), etc

2. attach an ammeter (disconnect battery, hook up meter) - turn on parking lights - note reading, turn on head lights note peak reading - see if it's < 20 amps

if 2=yes, you may well have a bad switch.  if 2=no, it's not the switch.  look for where the excess current is going -
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

J. Gomez

Bill,

Glad to hear you found the problem and that your switch is intact. Just for the readers clarifications these small oops are not errors, just a slight miscalculation on our parts..!  ;D  It sounds more technical that way.  :D

If your tail lights still on you may have a direct cross with a 12V source at that location, the power trunk has a live 12V black wire. If that is the case and your brake lights wire (violet right side) is cross with a 12V the turn signals will not work. Just a hint..!

Also, good choice in checking the flasher unit.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Bill Balkie 24172

Jose ,
  I am at work now . tonight i will inspect every wire . the turn signal fuse was blown . But what really bothers me is the smoke that appeared from the dash . Although the headlights and dash dimmer work fine now . I will keep you informed . I hope i do not have to pull out the  headlight switch .

Thanks bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Bill Balkie 24172

Jose ,  Took the headlight switch out , it looked ok to me .     when i reinstalled it the Headlights work , Turn signals work ,  Dash dimmer works , the only problem is the brake lights are always on .    I need to check out the brake stop  switch ,I looked all over that car for the brake  stop switch .   Is it under the dash , or out by the master cylinder ?

Thanks Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

J. Gomez

Bill,

Lucky you the headlight switch is “A OK”..!

The brake light switch should be above the brake pedal pad and just below the bracket were the brake assembly bolts on inside. Should be cylindrical shape and with a prong that rest against a small plate at the brake pedal assembly. There should be two wires a neutral/white and orange connecting to it.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Bill Balkie 24172

Case Closed , I found the trouble ..  The last resort was the stop light switch , And that was the answer . And that is not easy to find in a 1957 cadillac . You have to take out the top pad and the Radio Amp. and a part of the heater hose . and there it sits on top of the brake peddle . The two wires that feed into the switch had overheated from the short that i created the night before when i screwed on my power trunk cover . And that explains the smoke coming from the dash .   I was very lucky this time . i could not rest until i found the problem . Tomorrow night i get to put the whole thing back together .  i could not believe what i had to go through to find that switch . It is buried in the dash ....   i know where it is now .... The car is fixed .... And i feel great !    thanks to every one that contributes to this great forum .  And Jose is one of the Biggest contributors
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

J. Gomez

Bill,

That is why we are all here for to help each other get these beauties back on the road.

Thanks..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Bill Balkie 24172

Hello Bill , Thank you so much for your input , If you have been following the thread you have found you were right . It was under the dash , The brake light switch . I am lucky i did not burn the car to the ground . Did not see the wire in the trunk because it was under the carpet and the battery was not connected when i hit the wire .  I had a hellava time finding the stop light switch located on top of the brake pedal under the dash . But when i did and found the wires fused together i was never so happy . Pulled them apart and car is back to normal .  You know sometimes these problems can consume a person and last for weeks and months when it comes to a wiring problem .  these things happen , and that is how we all learn . Again you input was right on and very helpful and professional . Thanks Again Bill
Quote from: william_b_noble on July 20, 2010, 11:23:17 PM
this is a good time to get serious and do some real troubleshooting.  if I had to guess, I'd agree with others that there is a short somewhere, but maybe not under the dash.  I don't know your exact car, my closest is a '59.  here is what i would do

1. get out your schematic and see if there is a disconnect somewhere - if there is, disconnect it - for example, can you disconnect the autronic eye?  can you disconnect the tail lights and leave only the front lights (or visa versa)  unplug headlights, see if it fixes it (just unplug the bulbs), etc

2. attach an ammeter (disconnect battery, hook up meter) - turn on parking lights - note reading, turn on head lights note peak reading - see if it's < 20 amps

if 2=yes, you may well have a bad switch.  if 2=no, it's not the switch.  look for where the excess current is going -
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

william_b_noble

glad you found it.  Depending on your opinion of authenticity, you may want to add additional fuses - later American cars, like yours, had a moderate number of fuses and circuit breakers, but earlier ones do not - my 38 plymouth has a single fuse, for example, my 61 morgan had two fuses, one for the horn, and one not hooked up to anything - when I got a short in the Morgan, there was some excitement, particularly from the young lady (now my wife of many years) whose feat were infused with toxic smoke and a rather bright electrical fire.  That car now sports extra fuses properly wired to actually protect things.
Bill N - clc # 2371

Bill Balkie 24172

William,
    That is an excellant idea , And sounds like a good winter project .  I would rather  have a good save car Rather the worry about Authenticity . I do belive in Authenticity to a point , But when it come to things like Radial tires , Electronic Ignition , In line fuses , A secondary Electronic Fuel pump .Thats where i draw the line .  My cars purpose is  to please me. and it is a driver . and thats just the way i like it .   Thanks Again Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

J. Gomez

Bill sorry for hijacking your post..!

William,

I’m glad you mention the extra electrical safety precautionary steps you had taken for your classic as I have taken similar with mine after my complete re-wiring.

The headlight switch supplies power to several lights in addition to the headlight and driving lights, the single 20A thermostatic breaker is just nominal with the standard load. With the fog lights, the Autronic eye this extra load is now placing the breaker at its marginal rating.

One particular modification I did was to off load the headlights (low and high bean power) path from the headlight switch via a small relay, the Autronic amplifier is also feed from the same circuit path. This modification did not alter the existing OEM harness arrangement, and I’ve use a breaker instead of a fuse.
J. Gomez
CLC #23082