what sound dampening material and where to buy it

[william_b_noble]

in a thread about nails, I've posted a photo of the 36 cad I'm working on - I'm going to need to glue new sound dampening material to all the body panels - and, I'm on the left coast.  So, the questions are:

1what to use
2 where to get it
3 what specific glue to use to hold it in place
4. is there anywhere that the material will be visible after the car is completed (e.g. the trunk?) - mine was in pretty trashed shape by the time i dragged it out from under an oak tree where it had sat since the end of WWII, so I have no idea what the interior of the trunk might look like - this is important because the neoprene/lead sandwich material works great but it woudl certainly not look original.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Check out these two products and see which works best for you or maybe a combination of the two.


Dynamat  http://www.dynamat.com/

Lizard Skin  http://www.lizardskin.com/

[william_b_noble]

well, from those two choices, the spray on stuff seems like it's a lot easier - I wonder how it reacts to having a headliner bow pressed against it?  I've sent an inquiry to the companies - is this what people use on cars from teh 30s now?

[35-709]

There are many sound deadener materials and companies selling them.  Try Googling sound deadener.  If you want to use the original 1936 type sound deadening material in your restoration perhaps one of the companies selling the original type upholstery fabrics such as SMS or Jenkins can help you.  Others here may have some other suggestions.
Geoff N.

[Otto Skorzeny]

I think the Dynamat would be fine under the carpeting and headliner of any vintage car. It can be used inside door panels, etc. and hidden from view.

The Lizard skin can be painted so if you put it on the underside of the car or inside the fenders it can be painted chassis black or body color.

[Fred Zwicker #23106]

When I restored my 39 LaSalle, I used TPM Sound Deadener (Total Protection Mat) on the floors, inside the doors and inside the trunk.  It is a gray rubber material that conforms easily and sticks to any clean, dry surface - in fact once it is in place, it is almost impossible to remove.  It did a great job for half the price of most other products.  I also just finished adding new carpet to an original 1955 Safari and used the same material under the new carpet on the entire floor, including the rear cargo area. Available at TP Tools in Canfield, Ohio and on request they will send you a small sample.  See www.tptools.com

Fred

[william_b_noble]

wow, only 3 years and the whole method of construction is so different between your 39 and my 36 - nice article about the restoration of your car on that site, was this a project that the company helped you directly with? I have one of their pressure pot sand blasters that I bought decades ago, they were easy to deal with then, I had no clue that they might be reselling this stuff.

I will nominate the TIP site as a candidate for "pathetic web design" - it was not all that easy to find the product - the direct link is here http://www.tptools.com/p/2599,354_TP-Tools®-TPM-Total-Protection-Mat.html    it looks like it can be gotten with an aluminum surface or a gray surface, the aluminum surface is 5% cheaper, $2 per square foot. 

The stuff called "fat mat" is $1.29 per square foot, and it's 5 mils thicker (.050 verus .045)  http://www.sounddeadener.com/products/bulk%20packs/100.htm, and there is stuff called B-Quiet  (http://www.b-quiet.com/compare.html) at $1.40 per square foot that is also .045, and a thicker .060 thick product at $2.28 per square foot

I would imagine for the smaller of the 4-door Cadillacs, I'd need at least 250-300 square feet - do you know how much material your car required?


So, it certainly doesn't appear to be the case that the TP-Tools stuff is cheaper - did you have any sense of why it might be better than the other products?

[35-709]

   

Um, er, you might say TP Tools gave Fred some help.  Aww go ahead, Fred, YOU tell him!

Geoff N.

[Fred Zwicker #23106]

It worked well for me.  I am not aware of the cost or advantages or disadvantages of other products, but appreciate the information.  Whatever product you buy, be sure that it will stick well.  As to coverage, I just finished a 1955 Safari 2-door wagon and a 100 sq. ft. roll took care of the entire floor, with one floor area back of the rear seat doubled. I had about 10-20 sq. ft. left over.  For my 39 LaSalle Convertible Coupe, I think it took about 150 sq. ft., as I put it almost everywhere (side panels as well as floor).  If I were you, I would order a 100' roll of whatever product you like first and then reorder the balance after you get the feel for the coverage.  Even small cutoffs can be used for inside curves and other areas, so waste is minimal. 

I do not recommend putting anything heavier than regular lightweight hood insulation under the hood of a car, as the hood will probably sag, due to extra weight.  Older car hoods generally sag anyhow, as the springs gradually weaken. 

I am retired from the business, but will pass on your comments about the web site.  Listing and organizing thousands of products is always a challenge, so I am in hopes that some improvements can be made (Constructive criticism is always appreciated - Thanks).  Attached are a couple more pictures of the TPM that I used on my '39 LaSalle restoration.  The difference in road noise is significant and it is nice to have a clean surface to work with when installing the carpet and upholstery.

Fred

[william_b_noble]

so, if it took about 100 sq feet to do the floor, the top probably needs about as much - ......

here's a question for Fred - it looks like you used the gray finsh rather than the aluminum finish material - can you explain why?

[Fred Zwicker #23106]

The main reason that I used the gray material was that at the time, the aluminum finish was not available.  However, on my last restoration, I still used the gray material - maybe from force of habit, but also because with my previous restoration of another Pontiac Safari, the previous owner used an aluminum finish material that was fraying and peeling and almost impossible to remove - it came off in pieces and took days of hand work with a heat gun and scraper to get it all off.  So once the old was removed, I figured that there was no sense in trying something simlar, since the gray worked so well.  Take a look at the attached picture to see what I faced in trying to get down to the original floor in the Safari.

Fred

[LARRY BOYD]

Might as well put in my two worth.Regarding LIZARDSKIN, I've used it for the last couple of years. FRED'S consern about weight is valid but LIZARDSKIN ceramic for heat at recomended .040 thickness weighs .01 pounds per sq.ft. when dry. The sound control is a little over twice that. LARRY.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Just curious Larry, can Lizard Skin sound control be applied over Lizard Skin heat control?

[william_b_noble]

Thinking about this with my engineer's hat on, I would think that for the roof and sides, a continuous sheet of matierail would be superior to a spray for several reasons

1. won't drip off on my head while I'm applying it
2. over the decades, if the glue fails, the top bows and other structure will hold it in place
3. provides padding above the top bows like the original material
4. it's more like the original stuff

On my car, the front part of the floor is almost all wood - that by itself is a pretty good blocker of heat, I had anticipated using standard carpet padding (jute) over it - I think that would be original (does anyone know for sure what went on the floor in 1936?).  For the rear part of the floor, where it is metal, the metalized stuff would keep more heat outside the car and would provide some padding as well.

The brush on/spray on stuff like the Lizard Skin might be good where there is a lot of curvature - where the fender wells meet the body, the upper part of the trunk under the rear windows, and so on.

Does anyone who has tried both produucts have a comment?

Does anyone know if in 1936 there was a trunk liner that would cover whatever solution I ultimately choose?  It's not clear from the photos in the owner's manual.

[william_b_noble]

I ordered from these guys http://www.raamaudio.com/, helpful on the phone, located in Utah, seemed to have good prices.  I ordered:
1/4 pack BXT II (6 sheets)   
1/2 roll BXT                             
6 yards PS Ensolite             
2 yards Ensolite                   
1 can adhesive   

Now, to wait for it to show up and to put the stuff in the car..... meanwhile the rear door skins are at the stripper   

[LARRY BOYD]

OTTO, Lizardskin heat can be applied over sound but not the reverse.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Thanks Larry. Very interesting and good to know.