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The 59-60 Eldorado Brougham

Started by Charles D. Barnette, July 30, 2010, 01:22:17 PM

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Charles D. Barnette

I enjoyed reading about Ed Pentesco's beautiful 60 Eldorado Brougham in the August 2010 issue of The Self-Starter. However everytime I think about the one 59 EB falling off the dock while being loaded and thus necessitating an extra 60 EB being built, I want to mount a "Titanic type expedition" and go retrieve it off the ocean bottom floor. Anyone else so inclined? Charles

veesixteen

I always will wonder if there is any truth to that rumor!  I think that if the (boxed) car had effectively fallen into the harbor in Detroit (that's the story I heard) or in Genoa (another plausible version of the tale), we would have heard about it in the press. Hey ... a $13,000 automobile, in 1959! I'm pretty sure that every effort would have been made to retrieve the box and save whatever parts were reusable. I have never seen any "official" report about the alleged incident, barring occasional, unsubstantiated references to it, including in my own "Cadillac Database".  These cars all are numbered from 1 to 99 and each one is well documented. Could the mystery car have been #100?  Could the salvageable parts have been used for a 1960 Brougham? Whatever the case, it's the kind of story that dreams are made of ... or should that read "the kind of dream that stories are made of"?
Yann Saunders, CLC #12588
Compiler and former keeper of "The Cadillac Database"
aka "MrCadillac", aka "Veesixteen"

Charles D. Barnette

I truly wish we could get to the bottom of this story. The issue is did a 1959 Eldorado Brougham (whole body or frame only) fall into a body of water (either in the Detroit area or the Genoa, Italy, area) thus necessitating the building of a 101th 60 EB to maintain a production quota of 200 units for the 59-60 EB? If so, was the ill fated 59 EB retrieved? Maybe it was too deep where it fell in. Let's call on the experts to answer it: Tim Pawl, Greg Wallace, Matt Larson, our Museum, The GM Heritage Center, and/ or Pininfarina! Charles

Jeff Wilk

I'm confused...with the extreme rarity of this model why did one just sell on ebay for a buy it now price of $28,000?  Was that a steal?

Jeff
"Impossible Only Describes The Degree Of Difficulty" 

Southern New Jersey

1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1975 Eldorado Convertible (#12 made)
1933 Phaeton Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"
1933 Master Sedan Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"

SOLD
1976 Cadillac Mirage (factory authorized Pick-Up)
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sedan
1958 Cadillac Coupe Deville

Davidinhartford

Could you imagine what it might look like after 51 years in the water?   

It would make a rust belt car look pristine by comparison.   

Henry
 

The same as that 57 Plymouth they unearthed in Tulsa.   Worse actually.

Otto Skorzeny

#5
I doubt it would look worse. The Detroit River is fresh water not salt water. Cold fresh water often prevents metal items from corroding (at least when compared to seawater). Metal rusts when it's exposed to oxygen. Repeated wetting and drying is what causes rust.

But this story is baloney at least insofar as a car being left at the bottom of the harbor.

First, GM would not have left such a valuable item in the water since retrieving it would have been so simple. It's not like it dropped a mile to the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean. The harbor is fairly shallow - probably around 50 feet. Second the harbor master would not have allowed it to remain since it would pose a possible danger to navigation. They don't just allow junk to pile up down there.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

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David King (kz78hy)

#6
My "Self Starter" has not yet arrived so I'm guessing to the content of the post, but I always assumed a bodied car was what was dropped and I was thinking a finished car bound for the US. Based on Yann's site and verbiage, it would seem that the chassis destined for Italy was dropped in the water before transit.  So a rolling chassis would be what a diver would find if that event happened and not removed from the river.  Forrest is correct that anything like that would be removed from that waterway.  High traffic area.

Can't wait to read the article.

David

Ths SS got here today.  Nice piece.
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

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The Tassie Devil(le)

The way I understood it, was that a completed vehicle was "Dropped" at the wharf in Italy.

If it had been in USA, it would either have been hushed up totally, or plastered all over the media as a "world" event.

You can never keep Wharfies quiet.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Davidinhartford

I think the story is fabricated as well.   No matter where the car was dropped., Detroit or Italy, they would have retrieved it.

The Tassie Devil(le)

If it was dropped, and I can understand it being true, as I have worked on the wharves many years ago, it would have been covered by insurance, and if it was paid out, it would have never been offered for sale as if it was, it would have been a liability for Cadillac, or Pininfarina, because of the probability of future problems.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

veesixteen

There are two versions to this (apocryphal?) tale: (1) the crate containing the chassis and body parts for assembly in Italy was dropped in Detroit harbor during loading operations and (2) the crate containing the assembled car was dropped in Genoa harbor when being loaded for the returrn trip to Detroit.

I mentioned the rumor in the Database to try to elicit from somone, somewhere, evidence to either debunk the myth or to report en exactly what happened.

Nothing!

So we all can continue to dream about "the one that got away".

Yann Saunders, CLC #12588
Compiler and former keeper of "The Cadillac Database"
aka "MrCadillac", aka "Veesixteen"

Jeff Wilk

So what is the value of a good "Driver Quality" 59 Broughm on today's market Vs a fully restored one?

Jeff
"Impossible Only Describes The Degree Of Difficulty" 

Southern New Jersey

1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1975 Eldorado Convertible (#12 made)
1933 Phaeton Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"
1933 Master Sedan Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"

SOLD
1976 Cadillac Mirage (factory authorized Pick-Up)
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sedan
1958 Cadillac Coupe Deville

David Temple

How do we know the car (or chassis) was not retrieved and scrapped (assuming the story is true of course)?

veesixteen

We don't ... and therein lies the crux of the matter. Was the incident recorded anywhere? We don't know. I would imagine that GM/Cadillac would want to keep such an incident under wraps.  Buyers were not exactly queuing up at the dealerships to get one of these $13,000 cars (in 1959 dollars!). I'm guessing a potential buyer would probably hesitate even more if he learned that the car he was being offered may have been fished out of the harbor in Detroit (or, worse, Genoa) and "refurbished" to secure a sale. 

My own guess is that by the time the components of the 100th (planned) 1959 Brougham were ready to be crated and shipped to Italy, PF was already tooling up for the 1960 Eldorado Brougham run of 100 units. This has me wondering if, out there, is a 1960 EB on a 1959 Cadillac EB chassis.

One thing is sure, the missing car is NOT the one being touted by a vendor in California as "the only 1961 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham," a car reportedly built on the chassis of a 1959 EB (described as style 6929, VIN-59P061100) and labeled "Jacqueline" in honor of a past US First Lady. That car was not motorized until 1996, when it was put on the chassis of a used 1960 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz with a regular 1959 motor ( http://cadillacdb.planeteldorado.com/Dbas_txt/60pfjacq.htm ).  CLC member Matt Lerson's comments on that page are of particular interest.

Do we have any California members prepared to go check the ACTUAL engine and chassis numbers of "Jacqueline" and report back to the club?
Yann Saunders, CLC #12588
Compiler and former keeper of "The Cadillac Database"
aka "MrCadillac", aka "Veesixteen"

Charles D. Barnette

It is certainly intriguing when one considers that Titanic went down in 1912 with a 1912 Renault auto, and the Italian ship Andrea Doria went down in 1956 with the 1956 Chrysler Norseman show car built by Ghia with the home port of the ship being Genoa, Italy. We Cadillac lovers have the missing 59 EB story growing out of a partnership between Cadillac and Pininfarina of Italy. I have sent an email to Pininfarina to see if they can impart any information about the matter. If they repond I will post the response here. Charles

The Tassie Devil(le)

The difference is that the owners of the ship that was to carry the Cadillac, had read the previous stories, and decided that they couldn't afford to lose their ship. ;)

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Charles D. Barnette

#16
Roy A. Schneider noted author of "1950 Thru 1959 Cadillac Automobile Heritage's Illustrated Guide" describes the event as follows on page 235 in his book in an Editor's Note: "According to legend, 100 Broughams were to be completed during the 1959 model run, but one chassis was dropped in the harbor while being loaded thereby reducing the number to 99." Does "legend" mean by hearsay only? I need more than that. I may have to wait until I get to heaven and ask the Lord about it behind the questions of who shot JFK and where is the black 1953 Cadillac LeMans serial number 03 (body no.2)! Charles

veesixteen

Roy's book probably is the source of my own information (included in the Cadillac Database). Note how Roy does NOT specify into WHICH harbor the car was allegedly dropped (Detroit or Genoa).  Perhaps this thread will help to jog someone's memory of the (alleged) incident. But, IMHO, this "fact" is probably as accurate as the "fact" that only 99 of the 1959 Eldorado Biarritz models had the bucket seat option.
Yann Saunders, CLC #12588
Compiler and former keeper of "The Cadillac Database"
aka "MrCadillac", aka "Veesixteen"

Davidinhartford

I just found a three page color feature I saved from a old Self Starter magazine on the 59-60 E.B.s  written by Rick Zeiger.    In his story the lost car fell into the New York harbor.   

Jeff Maltby 4194

Yann. What happened to Don Turkletops 59 Broughman and Biarritz after he passed on ?
Jeffo 49er chapter

CLC 1985
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