57 Eldorado A/C

[jerryduvall]

Looking to convert A/C to R-134. Can it be converted and is there a list of parts that are needed for the conversion? Thanks jerry duvall

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Jerry,
Why would you want to change your system from the still available R-12 to a 20% less efficient system with R-134a?
Greg

[David King (kz78hy)]

Greg

Where would you recommend buying the R12.  I just started work again (YOOOHOOO) and would like to plan on getting my 58 AC working as well.

Thanks
David

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Dave/Jerry,
In the US, R-12 is still available and usually distributed through auto wholesales like AC Delco Jobbers, etc.  As for getting some one (licensed) to recharge your system is to Google " Automotive Air Conditioning Repair" in your general area. Many of the shops listed advertise that they will recharge with R-12.  You shouldn't pay more than $65.00 per pound and with a typical 4.0 pound system a full charge is about $250.00 plus labor.  Substantially less than the cost of dis assembling and thoroughly flushing (to clean out all the mineral oil) your system.
Jerry, to answer your question although as you probably can guess I don't recommend replacing the R-12 with R-134a, what needs to be done is the entire system completely disassembled and cleaned of all Mineral oil residue (in all the components, evaporator, condenser, compressor, etc.) then the hoses upgraded to "barrier type" hoses and the system re-assembled, charged with either PAG or (my choice) Ester oil.  The system can then be charged with R-134a carefully limiting the compressor discharge "superheat" to minimized compressor abuse.
As I said before, the best expectations for an R-12 system, properly charged with R-134a is a reduction in capacity of between 18 and 22%.  If you are in Canada or northern Maine that is not critical, but here in Southern Texas (San Antonio) it is the difference between working and not working in Summer driving.

P.S.The EU has decided that R-134a has too much Global Warming potential and they are eliminating it's use starting (in cars) with the 2011 models, with complete phase-out by 2017.
Since the US manufacturers would like to sell cars in the EU they are following suit.  The replacement refrigerant chosen is HFO-1234yf.
It is the pride and joy of Dupont and is advertised as a "drop in replacement" for R-134a.  It's price? Not announced yet bu estimated to be about $50.00 per pound.
You pays your money and gets no choice.
Greg
Greg

[bcroe]

I ran for a while with a charge of propane/butane replacing my R12.  DIRT CHEAP, worked very well.  For do-it-your-selfers, a shop wouldn't mess with it.  Bruce Roe

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Bruce,
In high school I used to hang out with a kid that used gasoline in his Zippo lighter. Why not, It works?
Greg

[Bob S]

Bruce
"I ran for a while with a charge of propane/butane replacing my R12.  DIRT CHEAP, worked very well."  And what happens in an accident if there is a spark?  There is a reason why OEM's don't put propane/butane inside the passenger compartment.

[bcroe]

I'm carrying 180 lbs of gasoline, which could lie around for quite a while.  I'm not too concerned about 1.3 lb of propane, which will dissipate the instant it is released.  Similar risk is in my torch, which could be dropped off a ladder every time I work on the plumbing.  Lets get risk in perspective, all that plastic in a car is a bigger fire hazzard.  None of A/C equipment is actually inside the passenger compartment.  If my original brand F refrigerant were to see flames, it generates a very poisonous gas, propane won't.  With all the electronic gas pedal & failing anti lock brake issues, I'm happy to live with my propane.  The fact is, when patents ran out, a move was made to outlaw proven stuff and peddle new patented stuff at outrageous prices.  Laws passed to protect from any competition by privateers by the powers.  But this independent prefers to keep my bucks out of greedy pockets.  Bruce Roe

[Kevin Bielinski #13320]

R12 is now going for about 30 bucks a pound.