News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

Power brake conversion for a 1952 ?

Started by Philippe M. Ruel, August 08, 2010, 12:48:20 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Philippe M. Ruel

I wonder whether there is any bolt-on (or nearly bolt-on) conversion to power braking for pre-1954 Cadillacs ?

There is little room around the master cylinder, so a remote booster (like 1954 Hydrovacs) may be necessary.



Don't tell me these cars already have great factory brakes, I know it.
My concern is that these great factory brakes don't hold comparison with the ones the idiot ahead of me in his 2010 model jumped on last week... >:(
1952 60 Special in France.

TJ Hopland

Scarebird lists a kit for 41-55 Cadillac.   What Scarebird does in most cases is makes a bracket to bolt on your existing drum spindle that then takes a more modern readily available caliper and rotor.  Usually there are some little custom spacers also included.  Some cases there are more parts involved.   They then give you a list of parts you need to complete the system. You then go to your local parts store and often find it in stock.  It will likely be a mix of makes and models of parts but its all common stuff so its all easy to get later when you need replacement parts unlike some of the kits where you have to buy it all from them.
http://www.scarebird.com/index.php?id=1

As for the power booster I have not looked into that stuff but I know there are a lot of options out there if you look at street rod or offroad truck places.

Biggest problem with many disc conversion kits is the usually assume you are going with more modern larger wheels.  Drum wheels usually had an extra step down in them that gets in the way of a caliper. With todays tire choices its not that hard to go to a larger wheel and still keep the same look but the issue is if you want to keep your original caps.  Nice thing about scarebird is if they dont know if it will fit you just find out what caliper and rotor it is and look it up online for dimensions.  If its looks possible see if your store has the stuff in stock and then bring in your spare tire and set the stuff in and see if it fits.  I have done that a couple of times, I just try to go in when they are not busy.

You got that right about drum brakes.  They were fine when no one could stop (and people were a little smarter).  If you plan to ever operate your car in modern traffic you need modern brakes.    Had way too many close calls with my drum cars in the last few years so mine are all now disc and I am much more comfortable.   Back in the drum days they did not have stupid highway designs where the speed limit is 65 and there is a stop every mile. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Otto Skorzeny

Unfortunately TJ, Phillipe is in France I believe.

Is that really your car Phillipe? It hurts to look at it.

Here is a link to a guy who just installed power brakes on his 1952 Cadillac. Perhaps you can contact him to get exact specs and part numbers, etc.

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/forum/index.php/topic,6073.0.html

Here's his website:  http://www.trackandshow.com/
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE

TJ Hopland

Hmm  Maybe that would be a new market for a company like Scarebird?  They could make a bracket to allow someone say in France to use calipers and rotors that were commonly available there?   I suppose there just are not enough old 'foreign' cars in other countries to make it worth the trouble. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Philippe M. Ruel

#4
@Forrest : yes this is my car, it happened on Aug. 1st upon a 75mph-to-zero stop on the highway on this heavy traffic day (holiday-goers and back-homers on the road the same day).
Against all expectations, I could find a straight 1951 fender here in France, 300 miles away from home, I picked it up yesterday. I guess grille and bumper parts won't be too hard to find on eBay in the US. The most costly part to purchase and ship should be the windshield (front light trim flew through it).
Right wheel features a heavy camber as well, we noticed upper A-arm shaft is bent and nothing more.

Thanks for the link to modified Cadillac chapter. Maybe I didn't post in the right place (authenticity forum) and should post there ?

I was wondering about "powering" my drums, and didn't think of a disc conversion, that may worry local authorities / insurance etc. (almost any modification is prohibited in theory ; practically, you do what you want, but won't be covered in case of an accident, even if the modification improves safety...). But I keep it as a "B" plan.

@TJ : you are right about availability of US car parts here. The only regular imports in the last 40 years have been some Buick PAs and Sevilles in the 1990s (GM France stopped long ago providing parts for these), and Chrysler/Jeeps (300C, Voyager and Cherokee) for 15 years, some of them assembled in Europe.

Wheel lug pattern compatibility is a problem in itself. Some european light trucks feature older Porsche 5x130mm pattern, close to 5x5" (5x127mm) GM pattern, I don't know if their rotors would fit my wheels. Does anybody know if 5x5" pattern was used by any japanese big cars or light trucks ?


FYI, there is evidence of a Cadillac fender and wheel well in a Renault LeCar trunk (and rear passenger compartment, and some of the front passenger compartment too ;D )
1952 60 Special in France.

The Tassie Devil(le)

Seeing that Mud guard in the Renault would make the occupant survive in an accident.

Got to love these vehicles with the fold-down seats.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Roger Zimmermann

Philippe, Cadillac had a Power brake package for 1950 to 1953 models, part # 146 2266. Unfortunately, I doubt that it's still available. My comment is just to say that it was possible.

Roger
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

#7
Anything is possible, and I personally have no problem with any one wanting to upgrade their stopping ability so that they can keep up with modern-day traffic requirements.

Keeping a car factory stock is admirable no matter what it is, but the trouble with using these under-braked rolling traffic barriers is really for the back-roads, and not really for high-congested roads.  

I can imagine the traffic in Europe would require the best brakes available.  And the use of Radial Tyres.

Plus, if you are going to have trouble getting "Odd-ball" parts, especially USA stuff in France, or Australia for that matter, better go with what is locally available, and buy spares whilst they are available.

Bruce. >:D  
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Philippe M. Ruel

@Roger : Thanks for the info, I found mention of it in the Cadillac Serviceman (july 1954 edition, page 47), too. Does anyone have a document with installation instructions ? Or even a picture showing a '50-'53 so equipped ?


It seems deja-vu to me, though, because my old Peugeot 404 originally features an HydroVac remote booster as well (slightly different model from '54-'55 Cadillacs, but very similar in its principle). I now need to find who sells remote, modern boosters : HydroVacs are no longer available, even refurbishing kits are pricey.

A member of this forum provided me with an address in the UK (thanks Henry), any other addresses and/or experiences ?
1952 60 Special in France.

Warren Rauch

 Cadillac did offer  a Kit #146 2266 Group#4.5000 that was for 1950-53 models for retro fitting power brakes. Warren

Philippe M. Ruel

I finally purchased a new remote booster from the UK (lots of choice, and lower shipping charges). It is intended for use on British MGBs.

Boost ratio is 1.65, hydraulic piston bore is 7/8", against 1" on 1954-55 Cad HydroVacs : this means 25% less brake fluid displacement for a given stroke (stroke is not mentioned). As MGBs feature front disc brakes, fluid displacement should nevertheless suit drum brakes.


I'll test it first on my Peugeot in place of its HydroVac, then on the Cadillac when front end issues are treated. I'll let you guys know results.

Anyone has pictures of a '50-'53 retrofitted with an HydroVac ? I'm not too sure as where to put it, because it seems to me that wheel well (where it is fastened on '54-55s) protrudes in engine compartment more than on '54-'55s.


Thanks to you all (including Henry and Rod off-line ;)) for your advice.
1952 60 Special in France.