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Author Topic: Alfred P. Sloan Cars  (Read 3295 times)

Offline John Peck

  • Posts: 9
Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« on: August 17, 2010, 07:39:44 PM »
Does anyone have any idea of where some of Alfred P. Sloans cars are?  He was a major contributor to GM.

Offline Terry Wenger

  • Posts: 299
  • CLC Number: 1800
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 08:10:25 PM »
John:

See the July 2010 Cadillac LaSalle Club Self-Starter.

Terry Wenger
Terry Wenger CLC #1800
tewv16@sbcglobal.net
1932 355B TSD
1939 7557
1940 60S
1941 60S
1947 6267 Conv.
1949 6207X Coupe
1963 60S

Offline John Peck

  • Posts: 9
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 08:21:11 PM »
Thanks Terry,  the July issue is what created my interest.  The man that bought his '41 deserves huge support.  Great story.  The more I read about A.P. Sloan, just wonder what happen to some of his other cars.

Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 09:51:04 PM »
John,

If you have an interest in just how great a management genius he was read “My Years at General Motors”. It’s his biography and shows how he invented many of the business practices that made American industry great. It describes in detail how he made GM the successful giant it was. He was one of the most respected CEO’s ever, even though he was nearly deaf from scarlet fever, and spoke with a speech impediment. How’s that for overcoming adversity?

Ralph
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

Offline Dr. John T. Welch

  • Posts: 119
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 01:00:34 AM »
During the GM bankruptcy ordeal,  I re-read Sloan's autobiograhphy to set my compass straight about the historic cataclysm that beset this corporation and our nation.  Sadly, there is no one of his stature to guide most corporations today.  The contemporary pace of business and today's velocity of information may have rendered his style obsolete, but his fundamental approach to business is not.  If you distill his core business values as he put them forth in his book, there is one and only one enduring thing above all else, PROFIT!!    He would never have allowed GM to be slowly transformed into a welfare corporation for the sole benefit UAW. He had a truly enlightened veiw of labor, but would always have stood for GM's fundamental right to financial profit in spite of labor's incremental demands over many years that led ultimately to capitalism's greatest sin:  the destruction of capital.  He would have realigned the corporation ,it's products and practices, and modified the "hierachy of social aspirational values" around which his classic product portfolios and the divisions were structured. Demographically and sociographically with a few notable exceptions, GM made too many cars for dead people between 1977 and 2008.  It used too many and too expensive people  to do so.  Sloan would never have allowed the gradual disappearance of GM's profit and the ultimate destrucion of its capital.

Now we pull new capital out of thin air with an IPO and put the funny money to work.  It's doubtful that GM or Chrysler can ever manufacutre their way to profit with any UAW labor. Foreign labor and markets are their only salvation.  Bob King ,are you listening??     
John T. Welch
 CLC   24277

Offline John Peck

  • Posts: 9
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 05:46:11 AM »
Ralph I ordered "My Years with General Motors" from Amazon a couple days ago.  I can't wait to read it!  Thanks!

Bossket...   ...I count not agree with you more!

Thanks for the input,

John

Offline Terry Wenger

  • Posts: 299
  • CLC Number: 1800
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 09:28:54 AM »
John:

To try to answer your original question, I don't believe that I have ever heard of another Alfred Sloan car other than Whit Otis' '41. I suspect that the GM Styling customs for GM executives were done mainly in 1940 & 1941. Harley Earl would be the exception.

Whit Otis has done a good bit of research on Alfred Sloan since he bought the car and possibly he knows of more Sloan cars.

I too have read "My years at General Motors" twice. It is unfortunate that GM hasn't had a person of his outstanding capabilities since he retired. Certainly the GM story now would be considerably different.

Terry
Terry Wenger CLC #1800
tewv16@sbcglobal.net
1932 355B TSD
1939 7557
1940 60S
1941 60S
1947 6267 Conv.
1949 6207X Coupe
1963 60S

jim skelly, CLC #15958

  • Guest
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 01:12:17 PM »
He also wrote a book 'Adventures of a White-Collar Man'.

Offline John Peck

  • Posts: 9
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2010, 08:17:00 PM »
Terry,

How do I get in touch with Whit Otis?  I would love to know how he is doing with A.P. Sloan's '41.  ....and if there is any date when we will get to see it.

Thanks,

John

Offline Otto Skorzeny

  • Posts: 3853
  • 1956 Coupe de Ville aka Bismarck
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2010, 08:59:42 PM »
He just posted on this forum a day or two ago. I'm sure he'll find you.
fward

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for YOURSELF

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Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2010, 10:27:16 PM »
One can always look in the directory, Whit lives in Colorado.

The Johnny
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

Offline Whit Otis, 1188

  • CLC 1188
  • Posts: 291
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 11:16:14 PM »
Hi Gang,

Haven't checked the forum for several days.... so I missed out on all of your interesting posts until now.  For further reading, "The Adventures of a White Collar Man" published in 1941 is quite interesting and provides a more "relaxed" window into AP Sloan, Jr..  Also, a recent book entitled "Sloan Rules" by David R Farber is a more contemporary piece of research on Mr. Sloan, published around 2005, I believe.  Another fascinating read is "Billy, Alfred, and General Motors" by William Pelfrey published in 2006.  These later books provide more interesting historical info on the auto industry in general and GM specifically.  Such things as Sloan's ownership of Hyatt Bearing and his relationship with Henry Ford, etc.  They include a larger cast of characters (William S Knudsen; Walter Chrysler, Charles Nash and other GM exec's before they got fed up with Durant and left GM to start their own companies).  Other insigihts into major events such as the Flint strike in 1937 when the union thug John L Lewis held GM hostage are not covered in depth in "My Years With G.. M..".  The DuPont Corporation and their executives also played a big part in developing financial controls at GM.  Owing to DuPont's huge ownership stake in GM, some of the exec's at DuPont moved over to become part of the finance committee at GM (Pierre DuPont served as GM chairman for a couple years after Durant was forced out the second time).

Having been a medium sized business owner, I was flabbergasted to find that all of these management consultants and guru's in the 1980's and 1990's who claimed a lot of modern management methods as their own ideas were full of crap, as Sloan had already done these things in the 20's and 30's.  Interestingly, GM had a 401 type of retirement incentive plan during the 30's that also had a provision to purchase a home.  In one of the books, Sloan states how many employees they assisted in homeownership... t'was quite impressive as I recall.

What you won't find is much personal info on Sloan.  He was very private and left no personal papers.  Sloan's entire life was one of very narrow focus...that is, his whole life was dedicaed to GM.

Enough for now, regards
Whit Otis
Whit Otis -
1941 6219D Custom
1941 6219D
1940 7533F
1948 6069X
1985 Eldorado Biarritz
1999 Bentley Arnage
2019 XT5
Drawing of AP Sloan Custom by Terry Wenger

Offline John Peck

  • Posts: 9
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2010, 01:09:36 PM »
Thanks for the reply and best of luck with your restoration of the Sloan car.

Can anyone tell me the difference between a 6219 and a 6219"D"?   I am looking at some 1941 -1947 4 drs. and could use some advice.

Thanks,

John

Offline Whit Otis, 1188

  • CLC 1188
  • Posts: 291
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 05:55:53 PM »
John,

I can't speak to the differences of 6219 standard and "D" for '42 and later, but in '41, the "D" or deluxe model had these upgrades.
1.  Seat Upholstery on standard model was a plain panel with two buttons on seat backs.  Deluxe seat backs had pleated inserts with bolsters.
2.  Deluxe had medallions and chrome decorative molding on window garnish moldings, whereas standard was simply wood grained.
3.  Windshield and back light garnish moldings were chrome on deluxe models and wood grained on std models.
4.  Deluxe had steering wheel in ivory color with chrome trim and chrome horn ring;  standard was 3 spoke plain molded brown wheel with a horn button and no chrome anywhere.
5.  Fender skirts
6.  Delux style door panels
7.  Deluxe cars had glass lens on dome light with diecast bezel.  Std models had plastic lens and light weight bezel.
8.  Deluxe rear view mirror had chrome back;  standard had painted back.
9.  Window and vent cranks on deluxe had chrome know, standard has ivory colored plastic insert.

That covers most of what I know.... maybe other stuff I missed.  Source material Cad's of the 40's and '41 Authenticity Manual 

Whit
Whit Otis -
1941 6219D Custom
1941 6219D
1940 7533F
1948 6069X
1985 Eldorado Biarritz
1999 Bentley Arnage
2019 XT5
Drawing of AP Sloan Custom by Terry Wenger

Offline John Peck

  • Posts: 9
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2010, 07:16:51 AM »
Thanks Whit, this is terrific information.  I even question if there was a standard and deluxe model after '42?  I will continue the research.  I have a couple of books out on loan to another member and will look through them.

Back to my question about A.P. Sloan's other cars, I was just wondering if any of his other production model cars ever surfaced.  Of course, living in Manhattan, maybe he only used limo's.

Thanks again for your help.

John

Offline Whit Otis, 1188

  • CLC 1188
  • Posts: 291
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2010, 11:05:52 PM »
John,

Great question re AP Sloan's other cars.  He probably had some through the years.... chauffeur driven would be my guess, and probably used to get around on the weekends to the yacht club, and other social events, although he was pretty private for the most part and worked a tremendous amount of hours.  Anyway, other than the car I have, I have no knowledge of such.  The car I have was actually delivered with his name on the factory invoice.  As to other exec customs, it sticks in my mind that a lot of these specials were provided by the factory and driven for a time and then I presume returned.  In other words, the user was not titled as the owner.  There are probably some exceptions here.... it is my understanding that Ketterings custom 60 Special is still in the Kettering family and was provided to him as a perk, so I presume it was titled in his name.  Wm. S. Knudsen, must have been a real car guy because he had several customs... two of which still survive, his custom V16... '38 I believe and his custom '40 60S.  Would be an interesting topic for a research project.... what GM exec drove what custom cars, and did he own it or just use it.

Maybe someone else out there can fill in some blanks on this subject.

Whit

Whit Otis -
1941 6219D Custom
1941 6219D
1940 7533F
1948 6069X
1985 Eldorado Biarritz
1999 Bentley Arnage
2019 XT5
Drawing of AP Sloan Custom by Terry Wenger

Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2010, 10:00:36 AM »
More recently, Harlow H. ("Red") Curtice was another GM executive who drove cars with custom design features created by the GM Styling Studio at his direction.  Mr. Curtice, who was GM President from 1953 through 1958, had been a long-time general manager of the Buick Division, so his personal cars were Buicks rather than Cadillacs. 

Mr. Curtice's custom-made 1952 Roadmaster limousine is now in the collection of Nicola Bulgari.  I am fortunate to own Mr. Curtice's last personal car, a 1960 Electra 225 convertible with many unique features created at GM Styling.  The car was sold by General Motors Corporation in 1962, near the time of Mr. Curtice's death, so this suggests that GM may have retained ownership of the car while Mr. Curtice was using it.

If the use of this car was a "perk" of his employment, no one could say that Mr. Curtice didn't deserve it.  Under his leadership, GM became the first U.S. company to record over $1 billion in annual net profits.  He was named as TIME Magazine's "Man of the Year" in 1956 as a result of his accomplishments.

 


Offline okccadman

  • Posts: 794
  • CLC Number: 5374
  • Name: Jim Jordan
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 10:11:44 AM »
Richard,

Its not a Cadillac, but I bet lots of folks would like to see some pics of your car.  I know I would!
Jim Jordan CLC# 5374
Oklahoma City, OK

55 Series 62 Sedan
56 Series 62 Coupe
56 Fleetwood 75 Derham Limo
59 Fleetwood Sixty Special
66 Fleetwood Brougham
66 Superior Hearse/Ambulance
67 Fleetwood Sixty Special
68 Fleetwood Eldorado
76 Coupe de Ville d'Elegance
90 Brougham
92 Fleetwood Coupe
93 Allante
94 Fleetwood Brougham
02 Eldorado Commemorative Edition

Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 03:49:43 PM »
Jim -- I don't have any pictures that can be e-mailed, but for those who are also members of the Buick Club, the car was featured in the October 2008 issue of the Buick Bugle. 

The car's most unique styling features are tail-fins and tail-lights that differ from the standard 1960 Buick.  The tail-fins are pointed, with no chrome borders, unlike the chrome-edged rounded fins of the standard 1960 Buick.  The tail-lights appear arrow-shaped rather than round like the standard car.  These features require a different sculpturing of the rear quarter panels leading up to the tail-lights.  The tail-light lenses have no part numbers.  (A car buff magazine article written well before the 1960 cars were introduced shows a pre-production styling mock-up of a 1960 Buick 4-door hardtop, and the tail-lights in it are similar to the ones on this car.  So apparently the pointed tail-light design was considered but not adopted for the production car.)

The car has a one-of-a-kind Buick emblem on the rear deck lid, and different style ventiports on the front fenders.  The interior has custom touches including unique pleated upholstery pattern, hidden storage compartments in the front armrests, and a flashing red warning light inside each front door.  The rectangular chrome "GM STYLING" insignia appears on each front fender, and a special data tag under the hood confirms the S.O. number of this car within the GM Styling Studio.  The front end is completely stock.

Cars like this remind us of the times when "car guys" were in charge of the auto companies.

Offline Barry M Wheeler #2189

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 3490
  • CLC Number: 2189
  • Name: Barry Wheeler
Re: Alfred P. Sloan Cars
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2010, 04:15:14 PM »
Richard, the standard mirrors were painted the "gold brown" steering column color on the back I believe...
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

 

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