CLUB GENERATED MAIL SPAM

[wingspread7]

   After about 2 years membership, why have I just received advertising from THE ANTIQUE AUTO SHOP at my business address opening with "As a member of the Cadillac LaSalle Club, I would like to welcome you as a new member"?   It goes on about their services, etc., Sincerely yours, Terry Kesselring.   I've heard of others in this club being spam e-mailed too.   This is the type of thing that will loose members fast.   Either find the "mole" or I too am gone.   
                                                                                                          Chuck

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Chuck,

This is a club, we publish a directory and some may use it for their own purposes.

But in genertal we get to find like minded folks or contact others we have not chatted with who have similar cars.

If you don't like the spam use a spam blocker, don't blame the club.

lak

John Washburn

[35-709]

   Those that have been on these forums on a regular basis know what I have to say about this potential problem.  MAYBE they got a hold of a club directory, maybe Mr. Kesselring is a club member and has a directory, MAYBE not.   No further comment or my post may be deleted.
Geoff N.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Chuck,
You seem to be overly offended at receiving car related email. I, personally, would not consider it "spam" Spam to me is drugs, sex ,scams.  ETC.  Mr. Kesselring is a long time member. I looked him up in my club directly. I see you are not following forum rules and are using a "handle" & not your full name or club #. How do we know who YOU are?
Bob

[wingspread7]

John,
  I do use a spam blocker on my e-mail.   My post had to do with MAIL SPAM.   I was unaware of the very public "Directory" and  have never had this problem with any of my other on line car forum clubs.
                                                                                                     Chuck  

Geof,
  Thank you for your input.   It helped clear this up for me.
                                                                                  Chuck

[wingspread7]

Bob, et al'
   This has nothing to do with e-mail spam.   It's   M    A   I   L       S   P   A   M.   In my postal mailbox.   Please forgive my lack of "not following the rules".   The other forums I'm on don't require first and last names and this is the first time I've ever been dressed down for it in this club.  I've just paid my $50 each year and interacted.   
                                                                                                              My name is Chuck Webster

[Otto Skorzeny]

The other forums I'm on don't require first and last names and this is the first time I've ever been dressed down for it in this club.

We're with you, Bud.


How do we know who YOU are?
Bob, how does anyone know who anybody is online? Just because someone declares that he is "so and so" doesn't make it so. There is no way to verify any of it and there is really no need too.

I know there are frequent posters on this forum who use assumed names but are "in compliance" with the name rule simply because the powers that be have no way of knowing what anybody's real name is.  It's quite ridiculous when one thinks about it.

If I hadn't told people my name 3 or 4 years ago when I joined this forum, I would have remained Otto Skorzeny and who would be able to prove otherwise?  For that matter what difference would it make and who would care? 

Think about this. How does anyone here know that I'm not a member of the CLC under my real name and that my name on this forum isn't a pseudonym?

[Fred Zwicker #23106]

It might not necessarily be the "CLC Directory" that caused you distress - In the jacket of each issue of the "Self-Starter" is a list of all new members by name and address.   I do not see anything on that page advising that the list is not to be used for commercial purposes, nor do I see anything about any other restrictions of use.  Perhaps a statement to that effect should be displayed prominently on that page to discourage such use.  Or possibly the new member's zip code, and maybe even the street address and/or city could be non-published at this location.  Just an idea.  As for the Directory, CLC should have some way of omitting addresses and phone numbers if requested to do so by the club members, if such an option is not already in place.  Information on how to do this could be published in the front of the Directory, along with other information of interest.

I am a known antique car collector and frequently receive unsolicited mailings from many companies in the hobby. I prefer this to the many catalogs that my wife and I receive from credit card companies, clothing stores and travel agencies, along with surveys.  I do not know how others get my name and address, nor do I want to spend  time in trying to do so, as it is an impossibility.  Quite often I receive very interesting and useful information - other times I have no interest and discard it.   Sometimes I will either email, mail or call the company, requesting that my name and address be removed from future mailings - not too difficult to do. When someone mails a catalog or direct mail letter, it costs that company plenty for the ad, and especially for the postage, so they are always happy to remove you from their mailing list if requested to do so.  My peeve is with companies that sell or rent my name and address, which is in my opinion is not a good way to do business.  One-time mailings are not a big issue.  Sometimes it is better not to sweat the small stuff and I try not to do so.

Fred

[Eric S. Maypother #15104]

With all the junk mail we receive I don't know whats wrong with a car person receiving a car related mailing. I get tons of junk mail, most just gets tossed in the paper recycle bin, car related stuff usually gets saved in my collection if it has any Cadillac pictures on it.

Theirs so many ways people get your address, they can buy list, member directories, phone books, town resident directories, etc. Sometimes when I'm at recycling center I'll look through magazines, it's funny how TV Guide's and Good Housekeeping will have the address label ripped off cover, then Guns & Ammo will have the persons address label left on. People seem pretty worried about someone knowing they receive the TV Guide, if I wanted to know people in towns name and address I just go to the Town Hall and buy a town resident book for $10.

[35-709]

As a friend of mine, and friend and member of this club, pointed out to me ----

" Page 2 of the Directory indicates that the Directory is intended solely for the personal use of the CLC members.  The use of the directory for solicitation or any commercial and/or any political use is prohibited."

It was also pointed out to me that a few years ago a certain CLC region used the directory to mail to many (maybe all) members a solicitation for a Cadillac themed clock and thermometer as a fund raiser for the region.  Maybe this type of use of the directory is considered acceptable, I don't know.

Geoff N.

   

[wingspread7]

Hello again,
               This is Chuck Webster, member #25935,
                                                                        Correct me if I'm wrong:  For the price of membership in the club this "Directory" has all our addresses where our vehicles are probably stored.   With the growing rash of stolen custom, rod and antique autos, especially in these border states, I don't feel real good about that.
                                                                                                                 Chuck
   

[Otto Skorzeny]

You're preaching to the choir here, Chuck.

One member removed his restoration thread on this forum because of the requirement to post his full name. Matters of privacy on the web and in printed publications should be left to the individual as to how much information he wishes to share.

I understand that the CLC list is sort of a gentleman's agreement to help members get in touch with others about model/year specific questions. I think it is extremely poor judgment for a member to use the list for his own business purposes. Place an ad in the SS if you want to get to everyone on the roster.

I think the membership roster should be treated with great care by individual members because of the reasons you suggest. It's sad but true. These are the times in which we live.

I certainly wouldn't post a list of cars I own along with my street address and full name.

[Jim Skelly, CLC #15958]

I wasn't happy to see commercial advertising sharing the same pages as the photos of the 2010 Grand National cars in the Self- Starter.  It really detracted from the photos.

[wingspread7]

   I Just finished contact with Lars.   His point was that I had nothing bad yet to report about the directory and that the majority want it.   That being the case, why not have it OPTIONAL for those of us who don't feel comfortable with it?   (Everything was fine.....until the first tower was hit.)
                                                Chuck Webster, member # 25935

[Otto Skorzeny]

Agreed.

And who makes the decision as to what commercial use of the list by members is acceptable and what isn't?  Isn't allowing it to be done by one person for commercial reasons opening the door for anyone to do so? What's to keep anybody from paying $50 a year for a captive audience of prospective customers?

[Art Director]

Responding to Jim Skelly’s message, as the person who is largely responsible for planning page positions in The Self-Starter in collaboration with the editor, I see only one page (page 29) in the September issue that had cars mixed with an ad on the same page. Another thing to point out is that advertising (including the classifieds we all love) generally takes up less than one-third of the space in each month’s issue. Most commercial magazines shoot for 60 percent advertising.

If it weren't for our loyal advertisers in our publications, your CLC dues would be much higher than $35/$50 per year.

Tim

[Jim Skelly, CLC #15958]

Tim,

I hope you don't take my comment personally.  Each issue of the Self-Starter looks professional and I'm sure takes a great deal of effort to put together AND mailed on time.  I just think in the future it would be better to have no advertising on the same pages as the photos from the current year's Grand National.  It really detracted from the article.  Commercial advertising keeps the cost down, and we certainly don't want to limit it.  

[wingspread7]

Was this directory mailed out to us all?   If so, I have not yet received mine and seem unable to find it here.   Can someone direct me?   
      Thanks, Chuck Webster, member #25935

[Art Director]

If you subscribe Periodical Class ($35 in the U.S. per year), the directory is scheduled to be mailed in a bag with your November-December issue of The Self-Starter. If you subscribe First-Class ($50 in the U.S. per year), your directory will be sent separately via Periodical Class from your magazine. Expect to see it in your mailboxes in November.

[Kevin M. Parkinson]

Tim,

I got a 2010 directory, it seems in April of this year.  Was there a permanent shift in its production?