Author Topic: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?  (Read 4193 times)

Offline Andrew Pullin

  • Posts: 109
Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« on: September 20, 2010, 05:51:12 AM »
Hey folks. So the schedule of my project has been compressed a little bit, from "infinite" time down to "finite" time.

Are there any known good shops that can do a turnkey refurbishment on my transmission?

I'm actually very interested in taking it apart myself, just to see the internals, but I know transmissions can be quite hairy (lots of special tools, small parts, and dirty oil everywhere), so I'm shying away from that option a little. I've not found any parts diagrams or anything, other than the couple of cutaway pictures in the service manual, so I don't have much to go on to figure it out myself.  ???

Any input, advice, or cajoling (to disassemble it myself) would be greatly appreciated! This is my first old car.
Andrew Pullin
1940 La Salle Superior hearse
http://andrewpull.in/hearse/

Offline Jay Friedman

  • Posts: 2536
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2010, 07:43:30 AM »
Northwest Transmissions Parts at northwesttransmissionparts.com sells parts for the transmission I don't know if they would work on it.  What exactly is wrong with your transmission? 

Essentially the same manual transmission was used by LaSalle and Cadillac from 1938 to '53 and 1950 Oldsmobiles used a similar transmission.  I'm not familiar with the '40 LaSalle shop manual, but the Cadillac shop manual for my car, a '49, has good procedures for overhauling the manual transmission.  An even better shop manual for the transmission procedures is the 1950 Oldsmobile manual.  Also, several CLC members and others have written up these procedures, which are even better yet.  There is also a general article on dealing with the transmission in the February 2010 issue of The Self Starter.  I can send you photocopies of most of this documentation against reimbursement of copying and postage expenses (which shouldn't be more than $5 or so). 

Depending on what you'll have to do to the transmission, you'll only absolutely have to have one special tool, a cylindrical piece of wood, brass or steel one inch in diamteter and 7 1/8 inches long which is used to tap the countershaft in and out.  You could make one yourself from stock bought in a hardware store.  Another tool you might need is a special snap ring remover used to take out the second gear, which can be bought for less than $30 from a tool supply house. 

Call me at 404-633-7418 or email at jaysfriedman@yahoo.com for further details.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Offline Scott Anderson CLC#26068

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 211
  • 1941 Series 62 CCP (6267X) CLC, CCCA
  • CLC Number: 26068
  • Name: Scott Anderson
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 04:38:32 PM »
Steve Cooley can. He's got a restoration shop (you can Google for some of the results) in Homosassa, FL. Don't know what the freight cost on it would be though. I'm running one he rebulit and it shifts very well. contact info below:

(352) 382-2271 · 8710 W Tradeways Ct, Homosassa, FL 34448

- Scott Anderson
1941 Cadillac 6267X Convertible Coupe
2014 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe

Offline Andrew Pullin

  • Posts: 109
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 05:37:53 PM »
Well, the only defects that I see right away on the transmission are the shift actuator seals are in very bad condition. Also, when I removed it, there was a lot of black sludge that leaked out, so I think it probably should be inspected internally. There's also a small chance that I undid some bolts on it that I shouldn't have, and one of the shafts has slid out of place internally.  :o

If the transmission really is the same as the one out of a '50 oldsmobile, it looks like Rock Auto has the input shaft bearing and the shift actuator seals; that's good!

If I'm going to take it apart, I would like to degrease, bead blast, and repaint the entire outside, since it's really showing it's age. And if I'm going to the trouble of powder-coating the frame, well, I shouldn't have a ghastly looking transmission in there.

When you say 'written up these procedures', they are forum posts buried somewhere? Or is there another resource to look into?
Andrew Pullin
1940 La Salle Superior hearse
http://andrewpull.in/hearse/

Offline Jay Friedman

  • Posts: 2536
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 06:41:03 PM »
When I said 'written up these procedures' I was referring to printed articles that are not on the forum anywhere and, to my knowledge, not online anywhere.  They are hard copies which, as I said, I can photocopy and mail to you.  Let me know.

If you don't send the transmission to Florida as the other poster suggests, you could do this work yourself.   Have you done this type of work before?  It's not that hard technically if you follow directions, with the exception of taking the second gear snap ring on and off as well as removing and replacing the shifter shafts.  However, the shifter shaft seals are easily replaced with modern o-rings WITHOUT removing the shafts themselves.  This is written up in one of the articles.  There should be no reason to take out the shafts themselves.  And you most likely need to do nothing to the second gear. 

Hardest part physically is wrestling the transmission in and out of the car, for which you need a transmission jack and/or an assistant.  The thing is heavy and awkward to handle compared to other manual transmissions I have worked on, which would also make shipping it expensive.

At the very least, it sounds like you'll need to take it apart to clean it out as well as get back inplace the shaft you mention along with replacing the shifter shaft seals. 
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Offline Fred Pennington 25635

  • Fred Pennington
  • Posts: 334
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2010, 12:08:36 AM »
The Authenticity Manual has step by step instructions to disassemble and reassemble the trans
Shifter shaft seals can be replace with common o-rings. The correct ones are covered in the manual.

Some of the best money I ever spent was on the Authenticity Manual

Good Luck
Fred
Fred Pennington, CLC 25635
1940, LaSalle 5019
1940 LaSalle 5019 parts car
1968 Ford Bronco
1973 Mustang Convertible
2012 Shelby GT500

Offline Andrew Pullin

  • Posts: 109
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2010, 03:11:50 AM »
Oh, I didn't know that the authenticity manuals had detailed repair information. I always thought it just combed through tiny little minutia like the shape of bolt heads and the color of stitching! Since I am not doing a "heritage" restoration (too expensive and beyond my abilities), I never considered buying it...

Well, you guys have talked me into doing it all myself. Expect a follow-up post asking "Do these synchros look trashed?".
Andrew Pullin
1940 La Salle Superior hearse
http://andrewpull.in/hearse/

Offline cmcbride@cox.net

  • Posts: 62
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2010, 09:49:13 AM »
I don't know if you seen these series of photos from "H.A.M.B." on swapping the tail shaft from a 1950 LaSalle transmission.

They might be helpful.  A picture is worth . . .

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185196

HTH

Chris McBride


Offline Andrew Pullin

  • Posts: 109
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 06:37:54 PM »
Ah, that looks great. Interestingly, he used a fully sealed bearing on the front, although there's no part number given. Some digging turned up this:

http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Kit9775&Store_Code=bearings
Andrew Pullin
1940 La Salle Superior hearse
http://andrewpull.in/hearse/

Offline Mike Simmons 938

  • Posts: 247
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 11:44:45 PM »
Andrew- great source. But, original ND# was 47508, which crosses to 6208. My question- How would the available 6207 and 6208 differ? There is one seller on eBay who continually sells a Japanese bearing that is supposed to replace the tailhousing bearing, and  it is listed as crossing with the original 3206. I bought one and found that, though the ID was correct, the OD was about 1/32 too small, yet books list it as a replacement. I can see shimming the exterior when necessary, but not the interior. Unfortunately, I no longer have bearing interchange books that would give me bearing  dimensions. I guess one just has to buy- and try. Mike

Offline Andrew Pullin

  • Posts: 109
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 04:09:22 AM »
Well, what's really odd is that 6206/6207/6208 are all metric bearings... I guess this transmission was designed overseas?

What I'm basing this on is that Rock Auto shows Bearing #207SL for the input shaft bearing for a 1950 Oldsmobile manual transmission input shaft bearing.
The 06/07/08 at the end should refer to the "dimension series" of the bearing, where ID = (dimension series #) * 5mm , so a -08 bearing should be 40mm ID.

RockAuto lists the 207SL as:
Bore=1.378", Outer Diameter=2.8346", Width=0.6693"   , or exactly ID = 35mm, OD = 72mm, Width = 17mm
and the 208SL as:
Bore=1.5748", Outer Diameter=3.1496", Width=0.7087",  or exactly ID = 40mm, OD = 80mm, width = 18mm

Unfortunately, my workshop is way out in Sacramento, so I can't just go and measure all this stuff right now. I suppose I'll measure and spec every other bearing in the box while I'm on this project. Maybe this is already all in the authenticity manual? Who knows... mine is still on order.

Mike - where'd you get that "original ND#" from? Is there a parts list or BOM or something? I'm trying to gather up all these resources...


Here's a document that goes into extensive detail about bearing sizing (and much more!):
http://www.ntnamerica.com/pdf/2200/2200tech.pdf
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 06:14:52 PM by Andrew Pullin »
Andrew Pullin
1940 La Salle Superior hearse
http://andrewpull.in/hearse/

Offline Jay Friedman

  • Posts: 2536
Re: Turnkey transmission refurb for LaSalle 3speed manual, 1940?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 09:32:41 PM »
Two comments:

1. Northwest Transmissions sell these bearings and know the dimensions of bearings for Cadillac transmissions.  So does Olcar Bearing Company.  I have various  transmission parts lying in my garage and just measured with a dial caliper the front opening in my spare transmission case and got 3.125 inches, which must be within a couple of thousandths the required OD of the front  bearing.  I also measured the surface the bearing mounts onto on my spare front input (clutch) shaft, which is 1.574 inches.  Even if I'm off a few thou one way or another, it seems the second bearing Andrew mentions in the posting previous to this one is the correct bearing and the Japanese bearing in his previous posting to that is incorrect. 

2. A fully sealed bearing like the Japanese bearing shown in Andrew's posting would not be satisfactory.  The bearing itself must be lubricated with the gear oil in the transmission, so the bearing should only be sealed at its front to keep oil from getting on the clutch, leaving the back of the bearing assembly open to receiving oil from inside the trans.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

 

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