Paint

[Terry Wenger]

Has anyone had any experience using the Auto Color Library's "Restoration Shop" Basecoat-Clearcoat Paint.

How do their colors match the original colors on cars of the 50's and older, especially the older metallic paints?

How do these paints compare to the Dupont Chroma base and Ditzler BC-CC Paints?

Terry Wenger

[Wayne Womble 12210]

I see no one has jumped on this one and I have not used the specific type of paint you are asking about.   I have used the Restoration Shop lacquer from Auto Paint Library, and while the color was OK, I wasn't really impressed.  It was OK, but it seemed to have less coverage and was not as hard as the old lacquers that I am used to.  However, I know that they are different now and formulas have changed. I still believe name brand lacquers are better quality. 

I am guessing that if you are asking this question, the Restoration stuff is of less cost that the name brand stuff? I assume that it is a lower line paint from some major supplier. They all have them, Omni, Nason, etc. My experience with those is basically the same as the Restoration Lacquer. They cover less, not as durable, mixes as less product to shoot etc., which is a false economy.  But, I have found that you generally get a better quality with the name brand, and while the costs of paint now days is mind blowing, it still is a fraction of the total cost of a paint job. Lets face it, a paint job cost so much now, that skimping on the paint is not going to make much difference in the overall cost of the project.

The guys at Auto Color Library were great to deal with and most helpful in finding some rare `33 color chips and even custom mixed samples.  I am sure if you call and asked specific questions about the Restoration Stuff, they would be honest with you about the specifics of that product. 

[Terry Wenger]

Wayne:

Thank you for your reply to my paint question. As you guessed, the cost of the Restoration shop paint is quite a bit less (about 60% less) of the major brand they also sell for a basecoat. Since I normally use DuPont products and would rather used Chroma-base rather than the Nason base coat for the reasons you mention along with better color quality, I questioned this also. So I ordered a quart of  the color to use on the firewall.

I asked the reason for the lower costs and I was told that they make their own materials for the Restoration Shop paints.

I also asked if they use color chips or tranposed formulas to make the color matches and was told they use the color chips. I have many color chip books from '35 up to the 60's and I question the ability to mix colors properly from  chips, as I know chips darken or otherwise change with age.

So I will spray the Restoration Shop basecoat on the firewall with a clearcoat and evaluate it.

You might ask why I'm not using lacquer on the car( A '55 CDV). I have nitrocellulose lacquer on my '32 and my '40 Cads and acrylic lacquer on my '38-90. Unfortunately the lacquers are getting harder to find. I have gone modern and sprayed several cars in the BC-CC system and have been pleased wth the outcome especially with metallics.

Thanks again for your reply.

Terry Wenger

[r thomas]

You can still get nitro lacquer from BILL HIRSCH in NJ...and at a very reasonable cost. They mixed some for me from old chips, and it was right on. shipping was fast and reasonable also.

[Jeff Wilk]

I've had the Nitros Laquer crack on me terribly after about 10 years.  Car needs a full repaint at this point (now 20 years) Not sure if it was because of the way it was applied, or what.  Haven't seen that with the more current materials though.

Jeff

[markl]

Jeff,
I know this is getting a little off the original topic, but your experience w/ cracking is interesting and similar to something that happened to me.  Years ago (perhaps 20 or more) when lacquer was commonly available, I had a car repainted using nitrocellulose lacquer.  This was over the objections of the painter, but when I insisted, he first applied some sort of sealer which was suppose to keep the two paints from interacting.  Don't recall the name of the product, but I do recall that it had a Scotsman on the label.  Perhaps someone in the painting trade can recall what this product was in name.

Well all was fine for the first 6 or so years, and then it started to develop cracks.  I short order, it was everywhere, and the ultimate solution was to strip the entire car and start over.  This time I went base coat-clear coat and that may have its own problems, but cracking doesn't seem to be one of them.

So my question specifically to you Jeff is; was your experience w/ paint applied over the appropriate primer or a re-paint over something other than lacquer, with or without a "sealer"?

Mark Lowery, CLC#25216

[Terry Wenger]

Mark:

Your point about what under the lacquer is right on. My '32 Cad was painted in Nitro lacquer in 1983 and my '40 Cad was painted with Nitro lacquer in 1989. Both cars were completely stripped and primed. I don't have any cracking problems. Both have been garaged. However, painting lacquer over another paint can really cause problems, even raising an older enamel job. Possibly another reason is the practice of putting "umpteen" coats of lacquer and leaving too thick a paint film after sanding and buffing.

I know that Nitro lacquer is still available in certain colors from Hirsch, Hibernia, and Color Library has Acrylic lacquer.The car I am painting is a metallic color. I have had problems in the past with rubbing and sanding metallic lacquers and getting uneveness and shading in the metallic appearance. The BC-CC sytem essentially eliminates this problem. I am not a profession auto painter, doing maybe a car every two years, so this may not be a problem with a professional, but I repainted a Packard once because of this problem.

This is a good thread. I hope that some of the folks who are complaining about the lack of thread activity are reading this!

Terry

[buicksplus]

I have used PPG BC-CC on several cars.  I have been very pleased with the quality and ease of application of this products.  My 40 LaSalle is an original metallic blue (Beaumont/Pilot blue two tone).  Ditzler matched the original colors quite well from some paint chips I had.  The only problem I had was with the metallic chips in the new paint -- it was much more metal flakey than the original.  It looks OK but still a bit too much like a modern car finish. 

When I did my dash for my 37 LaSalle, PPG used their optical scanner to provide an excellent match for the two-tone brown/grey metallic colors on the dash.  They provided me with a couple of samples that I test sprayed.  One color had those large flakes in it.  PPG was said it was easily changed and they did -- all they did was replace "silver medium" with "silver fine" in the mix and the result looked great.  I wish I had done that with my blue on the 40, but I didn't know it was an option back then.

I used lacquer for years but now I never touch the stuff.  It is easy to spray, but the durability is just not there.  Even cars that only go to shows will crack and craze pretty quickly, especially the dark colors. 

The cost of BC-CC is very high.  I have tried PPG's much cheaper brand (Omni?) on some parts and was quite pleased with it.  One PPG guy suggested I use it, he said the differences are mainly in long term durability to weather, something that is not really needed in a collector car.   

[Brad Ipsen CLC #737]

The key to durability with lacquer/acrylic lacquer is thin dry film thickness.  Thin is good.  Thick is bad.  In the days of lacquer primer and lacquer glazing putty it was not good.  Now with polyester glazing putty and epoxy and primers like PPG Kondar it is possible to do a good lacquer job that does not crack.  I painted my 39-9033 black in 1980 and it has not cracked.  In recent years I have tried all of the new products and did a acrylic lacquer job on my 38-9039 but I think it will be my last.  The modern paint film is just so much tougher.  PPG still sells acrylic lacquer here in WA so somebody must be buying it but it may not be around for long.   

[Jeff Wilk]

Late reply here....when my '33 was repainted with Nitro (from Hirsch) the car was down to bare metal and then primed.  It is a thick coat though now that it is all cracked and peeling (mostly on the flat surfaces, and only the maroon, not the black)  I have NOT been a good steward of this car though even though it was always garaged.  Not covered most of the time and over the years it became.......well......a storage rack.......           Again black is fine, verticle surfaces better, flat maroon surfaces like a dry river bed