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Is the Northstar engine the "new 4100"

Started by derrick johnson, February 08, 2011, 04:57:26 PM

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derrick johnson

i just bought a 97 deville as a second car. and i keep hearing stories
that the Northstar engine is not so reliable.

what are your thoughts about the 96-99 era northstar

thanks in advance for any advice

Davidinhartford

I've heard there were issues with them from 92 right thru 2005.    Mostly head gasket issues.   But at significantly higher mileage than the infamous HT41 blundreds.     The 2006 and newer ones seems to have those issues worked out finally.

76eldo

Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

J

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!              mine has 152,000 miles      runs great   uses oil between changes , normal  keep up on mantenence as anything it will last forever    its the other electronics in the car that are costly and fail.   and your check engine light will always be on   both my cadillacs of that era had engine lights on. good thing they are easy to work on and lots of them  so parts are cheaper then 1 might think.
                                                                             Jessie
Cadillac got me!!!

76eldo

I don't want to knock the engine, but there are LOTS of these showing up for sale cheap due to blown head gaskets.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

TJ Hopland

Head gaskets are just part of life now days.   Its not like the old cast iron on cast iron days where they could take some abuse.  I think the 3800 was the last cast iron car motor GM made and head gasket failures were rare on those, intake issues were a different story but at least much less expensive to repair than heads.

As for the Northstar its a 18? year old design that is still more advanced than many of the other engines out there.   Its high tech, high performance and you dont get that for nothing. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Chris Conklin

I know this wouldn't necessarily have any bearing on the head gasket directly, but I'm curious if there's any difference in failure rate from the FWD (DTS) to RWD (STS) cars?
Chris Conklin

marty55cdv

 I had the smaller Northstar in a Oldsmobile same trouble with the head gaskets at 80,000, worst car I ever owned. Junked it bought a 88 Eldo 
Marty Smith
  CLC #22760
41 60 Special http://bit.ly/1Wm0GvT
55 CDV http://bit.ly/1G933IY
56 Fleetwood
1958 Extended Deck http://bit.ly/1NPYhGC
1959 Fleetwood  http://bit.ly/1OFsrOE
1960 Series 62 Coupe
1960 Sedan DeVille  4 window Flattop
63 Fleetwood http://bit.ly/1iSz17J
1964 Eldorado http://bit.ly/1Wm17GA  (Living in California now)
1988 EBC http://bit.ly/1iSACKz

bill refakis

northstar engines are slighly better than ht4100,the gm 6.2 installed in the escalade will have varying degrees of wrist-pin knocks even at very low miles,I have always been a Cadillac guy,but today I hit 200k in my 05 town car,4.6,one,repeat one set of plugs,2 ingnition coils,and one tps. thats it!!

Hats off to GM,after killing the product in search of gas mileage,( as a dealer that hated to be forced into foreign cars,you,know usa first) I lost countless $$$ on diesels,V6 fleetwoods,Ht4100,s 4100 no doubt a reference to miles between overhauls,we now have the chevy/escaalde,that is 222 long,79 wide,129.5 wheelbase,and is 30% worse on gas than a 1970!

Progress,and now the Volt!!!

Greg Powers

I owned two Northstar Cadillacs, a 2000 Deville and a 2001 DTS. I got rid of both of them because of issues other than the engine (replaced 5 power window regulators and motors in less than 2 years and lots of check engine lights) Shortly after the sale of the 2000 it started having coolant issues. The problem with the Northstar engine is that it is viewed as a disposable part since it cost more to try and rebuild than replace. At least the old Cadillacs had a rebuildable engine. As stated earlier that is why so many are on used car lots at a fraction of the price of  a similar Lincoln or Lexus.
G.L. Powers>1954 Series 62 Sedan/1958 Fleetwood 60 Special-sold/1963 Series 62 Convertible-sold/1970 Fleetwood Brougham-sold/1994 Fleetwood Brougham/1971 Sedan Deville-sold/2000 Deville-sold/2001 DTS-sold/1976 Eldorado Convertible-sold/1983 Coupe Deville-sold/1990 Allante-sold/1990 and 1991 Brougham deElegance-sold/1992 Brougham-sold/Always looking!

The Tassie Devil(le)

If I was having similar trouble with any brand, I would soon change colours.

Some of us have limited finance, and buying a car is our biggest outlay, next to a home.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

PersianLimeFiremist

My 05 Deville daily driver just hit 150k miles, mostly highway. Knock on wood, but all I have had to do so far (3 years, 40,000 plus miles per year) is brakes/ tires/ oil and filters.
1959 Coupe DeVille, 1960 Series 62 Coupe, 1963 Series 62 Coupe, 1971 Sedan DeVille, 1974 Eldo Convertible, 1996 Fleetwood Brougham, 1969 Fleetwood Brougham, 1981 Fleetwood Brougham Station Wagon by ACC

derrick johnson

Thanks for all the advice.  i sold the car this weekend as i kept smelling anti freeze & couldn't find a leak anywhere.
so the headgasket issue was always in my mind.  i made a small profit and now i am hunting for a 79 eldo biaritz or a 76-79 seville
(at least the 350 is reliable and easy to work on) 

i think if i go with a 90s era caddy it would have to be the 91-93   deville or eldo with the  4.9 ( another reliable caddy/gm product)

thanks for the advice it was real  helpful 

TJ Hopland

The 4.5 and 4.9 were the same basic engine as the 4100, they just had all the 'fixes' from the factory instead of retrofitted like the most of the non transverse ones.

If you end up with a Seville be sure to make sure the o rings on the injectors are up to date.   MANY stories of fires on those cars from fuel leaks due to old o rings.  This goes for all the EFI motors from 75-80, not just the Seville's Olds, the optional EFI 500 and 425  had the same system on them. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

ship

I guess I've been very lucky re: Northstar since I currently own a 1999 Eldo ETC and a 2000 Eldo ESC with no knocks/ticks/oil consumption what so ever.  I had heard of the issues before I bought but the prices were right at the time.  I also have a 1992 Riviera with a 3800 L27.  These seem to last "forever" as it has over 146K miles and continues extremely strong...zero issues.
Dave Shipman
Dave Shipman CLC #25251, New England Region
2000 Eldorado Sport Coupe - Pearl Black
1999 Eldorado Touring Coupe - Polo Green
1992 Riviera Coupe - Midnight Blue Metallic

TJ Hopland

Im pretty sure the 3800 was cast iron on cast iron its whole life.   Never saw any of the last gen 03?-08 ones so its possible they got aluminum heads but so far no one has been able to confirm or deny that.    Its a little extra weight but in my mind the reliability / ability to take a little abuse is worth the extra weight. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Rod Dahlgren #19496

Guess I will add my Northstar notes---
We have a 1993 STS in the family bought new... Only has 75K on it...  My mother drives the car (80 yrs young) I just replaced the THIRD intake manifold on it.. At times when starting it does a good strong POP backfire so STRONG it actually breaks the intake manifold...
Been to the Cadillac dealer for this a few times.... I replace the intake but they do all the service and checks....

Dad had a 1994 Seville... He just HAD to have it... Bought that one used.. It had a blown head gasket.. I dropped the engine out... Yep, cradle and all out the bottom... Pulled it apart put in the "special" replacement studs and back together... ran fine, so I told him to sell it!  That was two years ago. He told me last month he got a note from a tow company that it had been abandonded and towed. Probably lost another head gasket.

BUT -- I gotta say, they sure were impressive when first introduced!

Remember the Deuce Roadster they built with the rear engine Northstar? Tim the Tool Man -- Tim Alan... Wonder where that car is now?
Did You Drive Your Cadillac Today?

Chris Short CLC 18814

I gotta 96 Eldo(see attched pic).. Baught it in 2000 with 80K.  Salesman had it it sat on the interstate..  Car was imaculate.  Had to replace the head gaskets on that at 100K back in 2006.  It cost me 6 THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!  Talk about a absolute nightmare!!!  And now at 120K last summer theres a wireing problem that affects how the tranny shifts and doesn't let the alternator charge..  And I smell anti freeze again.  I parked it in the shed.  So pissed off I can't hardly stand to look at it.  The car is like brand new.  I never drove it in the winter.  I'm in WI we have 6 months of winter here..  The car was hardly ever driven.  I acualy think the northstar is WORSE than the 4.1.  At least when a head gasket went bad in the 4.1 powered car you didn't have to completly remove the engine, tranny, suspension out of the car to fix it. Mechanicaly the northstar might be good but what good is it when the head gaskets go all the time and it costs many thousands of dollars to replace.?.  i'd sure like to know why GM didn't learn from the 80s!!!  When the heads are off the northstar you can see why they leak.. THeres very little gasket mating surface around the cylinders..  its a design problem   Right now I'm driving a 89 Fleetwood with 310K on it..  It won't die.  Its the car I had before I baught the 96 Eldo.  Thank god I didn't trade it in.. The engine has never been touched..  But the tranny has been rebuilt once.  But all I do is drive it and nothing ever major goes wrong.. All I do is change oil, brakes, tires, normal stuff.  I'd like to get a newer caddy but I'm scared.   Northstar is complete JUNK. thats for sure.  Are the guys that design these engines really that big of morons?  Why do they keep letting this happen?

buicksplus

I had a 94 Northstar, nothing but trouble.  Oil leaks, check engine lights (we can't renew plates here with that light on), coolant leaks.

Don't forget they need premium fuel, great feature with today's gas prices.

Ours is long gone, we have not missed it.  I don't plan on buying another.

Bill Sullivan CLC# 12700

Art Director

This is scary! I own a 2001 Eldorado ESC with 83,000 miles on it, bought almost 6 years ago when it had 45,000 miles. Only issue I have is that a quart of oil has to be added at about 2,000 miles since the last oil change. I have the car serviced every 3,000 miles at a Cadillac dealer and insist on the factory service intervals.

Have never had a Check Engine light come on, at least not yet. Tim
Tim Coy
CLC Southwestern Regions Vice President
Interim Western Regions Vice President
Art Director, The Self-Starter, International Membership Directory
Life member, Rocky Mountain Region
CLCMRC Benefactor #102

1963 Six-Window Sedan de Ville
1972 Fleetwood Brougham - RIP
1988 Sedan de Ville - RIP
2001 Eldorado ESC - RIP
2003 DeVille DTS - sold