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To Switch or Not to Switch - - - to Dual Master Cylinder?

Started by Jeff Wilk, March 01, 2011, 05:13:18 PM

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Jeff Wilk

Another thread got me to thinking again about whether or not to switch over to a dual master cylinder on my 59 Fleetwood.  The original system needs replacing so now is the time.  I am going to do the full job, wheel cylinders, springs, hoses, shoes, booster, master cylinder.  Everything except the drums which are fine.  Any pros or cons of making the switch here?  Who is best to get the parts from?  What's everyone think on this topic?

Jeff
"Impossible Only Describes The Degree Of Difficulty" 

Southern New Jersey

1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1975 Eldorado Convertible (#12 made)
1933 Phaeton Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"
1933 Master Sedan Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"

SOLD
1976 Cadillac Mirage (factory authorized Pick-Up)
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sedan
1958 Cadillac Coupe Deville

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Jeff,

Despite what a lot of restorers think, I am all for upgrading any Single Circuit braking systems to Dual Circuit.   For a "driven" vehicle, one should have the best brakes possible.

Depending on where one lives, I am reading about rusting brake lines, by the way, which never happens here in Australia, and it doesn't take much of a leak with a single system to result in no brakes when they are required the most.   It is usually the sudden high pressure of a panic stop when the faulty lines show up, and expel their valuable fluid.

The Modified Chapter website has numerous threads on such conversions, and do a search on    '59 Master/Booster conversion revisited ~ ut-oh

Bruce. >:D

'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Stinson

Hello Jeff,
I spent a lot of money on my 1937 brake system keeping it all original. But, if I could backup a few months, I would install a hidden modern dual system because I intend to drive the car often and across country. When I was in my late teens I drove a 1949 V-8 Lincoln everywhere and never had a brake problem during the five years I had the car, and I never even thought about checking the fluid. I guess the gas station did that for me back then when gas was just 18 and 19 cents a gallon during my highschool years.
Ty Stinson
CLC22330
Ty Stinson
'37 Cad 8519 Touring Sedan V12
CLC22330

76eldo

In CLC Club judging, would they deduct points for adapting a more modern dual master cylinder?

I have mixed feelings about this.  I have experienced total brake failure with my wife and kids in an antique car going down hill, brake pedal flopping right to the floor, and it's very scary.  I was able to steer and stop the car with no problems.  I had recently bought the car, and if i had pulled the wheels and drums (it was a 1951 Packard convertible) I would have seen that the brakes were very worn.  One of the wheel cylinders popped due to too much travel, due to worn rear shoes that were coated with gear oil, due to leaky axle seals, so there was no noise or grinding.

If these were safe when new, they are safe now.  Many people tend to overlook the greasy stuff in favor of the shiny stuff.  I'm not saying that to you, but it's what I did.

Now that I have this 1960, with single reservoir master cylinder, the thought does enter my mind, and I will be pulling the wheels shortly and giving the brake system, lines and hoses a complete examination.  I think I would leave it alone but just make sure it's completely functional and safe.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Glen

I rode thousands of miles in my parent’s cars (1938 Cadillac and 1946 Cadillac) and I drove a lot of miles in my 1961 Coupe De Ville.  All with no problems with the brakes.  The key is proper maintenance.  The maintenance schedule for the older cars is shorter then modern cars. 

You also need to know how to drive a car with all drum brakes.  But that was part of driver education in those days. 

Just my 2 cents. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

David King (kz78hy)

I vote to overhaul the existing system.  If you are replacing the lines, then go with stainless steel.  Inline tube should be able to help you with those.  If everything is fresh and in proper working order, it will be very well indeed.

David
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive

Stinson

I sent my old tubes to them and they came back in perfect alignment and ready to install. I selected total SS but not sure I would still have the couplings made in SS because I think they are softer and I stripped one end. All you have to do with the very long pieces is to role them on the floor to spread them and they will not crimp. Just do it slowly in a straight line. No problem.

But, I think I would still go with a modern dual master unit for safety, without power assist, and hide it.

Ty Stinson
Ty Stinson
'37 Cad 8519 Touring Sedan V12
CLC22330

David King (kz78hy)

My 5300 pound car had the booster not working for quite a while.  Without the booster, the brake pedal is very hard to depress.  You really want a working power brake booster to assist with this.

My 2 cents

David
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive

Caddy Wizard

There is a little more on this topic in the context of a 56 Cad in the Technical/Authenticity forum....

http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,114049.0.html

Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Jim Beard

What about the good old mechanical hand brake for the rear wheels in such a case. I know it will take a couple extra seconds to reach down and grab the lever but it will still work.

Caddy Wizard

The handbrake is better than nothing, but is no substitute for hydraulic brakes.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

David Greenburg

Jeff:

I converted my '59 Fleetwood to a dual master cylinder setup and have been very happy with it.  Based on the advice in a thread here, I used a '68 booster/master cyl. assembly, which is available from Autozone for around $135.  It is a bolt-in, except that the firewall mounting holes need to be slightly enlarged.  I had previously had a dual m/c installed on the original booster, and it never felt quite right.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special