Future/Demise of the hobby as we know it.

[AHBrown]

Just received a booklet from a major automobile auction company, as I assume many others have, and noticed the growing number of customized or shall I say "modified" cars up for auction.  I am not talking about the usual assortment of James Dean "Rebel Without a Cause" street rods, but cars, that in past times, would have been restored to being original, not customized.  Is this the wave of the future?

[AHBrown]

There seems to be a growing number of people who want to appear in an old car, but don't want to drive an old car, which to me doesn't make any sense, but I'm an old .

Interesting thought.  I guess they want the style and looks of older cars with the conveniences of a new car.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I agree with Mr Brown,

I too like the convenience of a modern drivetrain, and the looks of the older vehicle, but in some cases, the older drivetrain and handling make mixing it with current traffic conditions a safety issue.

Plus, obtaining parts at a reasonable cost to keep the older vehicles on the road is out of the reach of some of us without unlimited funds.

Plus, don't forget that vehicles have been modified and updated since they first came onto the roads.

Bruce.

[R Schroeder]

Well  Mr. Brown, I dont know if I would call it the demise of the hobby. Maybe the future of the hobby.
I think there are many different people in many different income levels at this site, and others. Some have a lot of bucks to restore a car to original, and some like to just keep them going with different drive trains , but have the look. When I see $30,000.00 to restore an engine , I would have to think twice about it , unless my name was THE DONALD.
Back in 1982 I restored a 1948 Chevy Stylemaster coupe. I was told by many club members to keep it stock. So I did. BUT, if I would have put a V-8 with a newer suspension in it, and air, and a dash full of nice gages , I would still be driving that car. It was VERY hot inside to drive on a warm summer day, and when you hit the freeway, the motor sounded like it was going to fly apart.
411 rear end, and a six really wound out.

I was very lucky to find my 78, with low mileage on it , and all original. I dont plan on changing it over to anything, BUT if the engine blew , I might consider a Chevy big block crate engine. Now, I have all the junk in this car to keep my world happy on the freeway. Air, cruise , and it runs along just fine at 70 mph.
I think its all in the eye of the beholder. I love all cars. New and old, stock ,or modified.There all a hobby to someone.
Below is the 48 ,and my 78.
Roy

My problem is that I drive them. No trailer queens at this house.

[Davidinhartford]

I am more worried about the lack of cars to be collected in the future.   Cadillacs specifically.    Todays late model used cars are so expensive to repair that the scrap rate is alarming.   Puting aside the HT4100 issue, look at the 94-99 Devilles.    These cars are quickly succombing to the headgasket failures and are too expensive to repair for most people.    At least the 82-85 cars are stylish enough for some collectors to try and save.   

You used to be able to buy a 20-30 year old car and get it repaired easily.    Todays mechanics are just parts changers.   They just replace what the diagnostic machine tells them.    Today it is hard to find parts for a 10 yr old car because the dealers don't want to stock anything that long.     

The biggest headache restoring a used Cadillac was the auto climate control.   Maybe a vacuum leak for the auto level control.     Good luck with that Stabilitrak system on the newer cars.   Or magnetic ride control. 

Want to see the state of the used cars on the road?   Take a drive down the interstate after dark near any city.  As you pass the 10+ year old cars look in the drivers window and see how many yellow warning lamps are glowing.     

[okccadman]

I always keep in the back of my mind what my late friend, CLC member Arnold Aberson was told in 1953 by a collector of 20's and 30's Auburns - "Kid, no one will ever restore a 52 Cadillac!"

[AHBrown]

I always keep in the back of my mind what my late friend, CLC member Arnold Aberson was told in 1953 by a collector of 20's and 30's Auburns - "Kid, no one will ever restore a 52 Cadillac!"

.....but it was cheaper and easier to restore a '52 Cadillac then the cars produced in recent history.  Parts just won't be available, either OEM or repros.

[Glen]

Bruce hit on an issue that I have seen time and again.  The perception that the old cars are not safe.  Usually this is in regard to the brakes. 

I find people today do not know how to drive a car with drum brakes.  I watch while people drag their brakes for most of a block while approaching a traffic light, and they drag them all the way down a hill.  I learned very early not to drag the brakes.  You apply them then get off them.   Also you quickly learned how to detect fading brakes so you could take action before it was too late. 

Of course there is the problem of getting good parts.  I’m not sure that the parts we get now are of good quality.  For example do the brake drums you get from other countries have the same expansion under heat quality that the originals had?  Do the brake shoes work as well as the originals? 

Then there is the problem of the mechanics today.  Most of them know nothing of the old cars.  If they cant connect it to a computer they do not know what to do with it. 

Just my opinion.   

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Glen,

The big problem with driving old cars in modern traffic is that us drivers of older cars know to leave sufficient room to pull up in an emergency, but the fella in the newer cars see this "Space" as room for him and another vehicle to slot into.   Thus, making us drop back further, only to have that space filled up by more better-braked buzz-boxes.

I remember when all vehicles had drum brakes, and everyone left enough space to safely stop.   But not now days.   Everyone is in such a hurry, and cars have better tyres, brakes and handling, that there is virtually no need to have big gaps.

Truck drivers are always complaining about the driver that fills "his" safety gap.

But, there is nothing wrong with Drum Brakes, as these have been around for years.

Bruce.    

[Dave Shepherd]

All valid issues, but the big one may be the problems coming in titling and registering newly built custom or street rods relative to safety and emissions, as usual Calif. is the leader in this issue, Sema has woked out some guidelines that should satisfy the states that are working towards this.  Naturally stock original cars with existing titles or registrations , so far, will be ok.

[Whit Otis, 1188]

I appreciate all the stuff you guys have posted, but the bottom line is this .... when the government decides they don't want all these unburned hydrocarbons in the air they will change the fuel and none of our old cars will run and it will be game over!  Hope you guys don't lose any sleep over this while you're worrying about all of the above stuff.  Also, build your storage area so all your neighbors can come in and marvel at what used to be in the automotive world.

Whit

[R Schroeder]

Lets face it. In 50 or 60 years all of the cars we are working on will be recycled for KIA's.
So, enjoy , and run them now.
Roy

[D.Yaros]

Roy,

Unfortunately, that is probably true, and a sad thought!

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

With all of this "hand wringing" and "doom and  gloom", one fact seems to be overlooked.  With the housing market and the economy in the dumper as it seems to be,  Many of the pseudo rich have had to sell their "collections".  Inclusive in the cars that are being sold are many "customs" that are decades old.  49 fastbacks that were bought in the mid fifties when they were very inexpensive, and customized since at that time they had no "collector value".   They went into collections and were traded privately by collectors for decades until today's economic climate brought them out into the open.
Our current love of these cars is our, TODAY.  I remember my Mom's 56 Sedan deVille in 1961.  She got a new '61 Coupe deVille, and here pristine, brocade seated, 15,000 mile "old car" was handed down to be used as a "parts chaser" in my Dad's Refrigeration service business.
At the time it seemed to be a practical use for a vehicle that had a "blue book" value of next to nothing.
In the infamous words of Don Amechee "T'ings Change".
The generation coming up seemingly has no interest in actually participating in this hobby, and if that continues, it will atrophy and die of "natural causes".   But for today, we can enjoy all that we have.
Sorry for the rant.
Greg

[mgrab]

When I received my first issue of the replacement magazine for Cars and Parts:  Auto Enthusiast.  I was optimistic when I noticed it was twice as thick as what it replaced, however I was quickly disappointed.  Those who got it know what I’m talking about….3 minutes and done.  I have not renewed.
I was a little kid in the early-mid 80’s.  My uncle owned many Cadillacs and Corvettes.  I remember in particular that the Caddy’s were either blown up, at the shop, or making me car sick.  I was too short to really see out of cars of that era so I had a great birds-eye view of how cheap and plastic those cars were.  My father bought Chevy’s, my mother had a Gremlin (I cringe at the thought of that thing).  I know there are a number of you who love and restore cars of this era and I do have an appreciation for them as cars but I personally have less than no desire to own anything (as a collector car) past 1965 or so.  Bad memories……I think many people my age feel the same way…there will be a gap there.  Everything built today is cheap and throwaway.  When was the last time any of you bought an appliance that lasted more than 5 years?  That didn’t cost a small fortune? I have a cousin who is a Cadillac salesman, what does he drive?  BMW.  When I bought my 41 friends and family members my age laughed when I said I bought a Cadillac, until they saw it.  Then it was “That’s a Cadillac?!”….even in its dilapidated state.  I probably would have no interest in cars at all if it weren’t for a family member giving me a book of old cars.  I loved to draw as a youngster and this is where I gained my love for them.  When I got to really see them I liked them even more.  I think that a vast majority of young people don’t really know these cars exist.  My wife had no clue or interest until she met me…..now she wonders why cars aren’t made this elegant or beautiful anymore.   The old cars need to be kept safe and driven if people will want to own them going forward.
I don’t really think we’ll ever see old cars “banished” so to speak.  We are still highly dependent on oil, good and bad.  Remember the 58 Plymouth that was buried in the Midwest and dug up a few years ago?  They put cans of fuel in the trunk because we weren’t supposed to have any by now.

[Jim Stamper]

     Yes, three minutes is about it for "Auto Enthusiast" and then I am done. I am not renewing either. I liked 'Cars and Parts" though. Too bad. 1964 Studebaker GT is the last year for me, a very few in the 50s and mostly pre-war are the cars I favor.

                                                                Jim Stamper,  CLC#13470

[bcroe]

There is plenty wrong with drum brakes.  I drove them half a million miles, in all situations.  My 62 had good brakes, in good weather.  But after driving in rain, anything could happen when hitting the brakes.  I once had to drive through a huge flooded pothole to enter the expressway.  Then traffic forced me to hit the brake, and the car instantly went sideways.  Fortunately I didn't hit anything.  There were other events too.  I got to dragging those drums in the rain, or anytime I had to drive through a puddle.  I was never sure my big 64 Merc would always be able to stop well enough.  And almost all of those drums were paired to a single master cylinder.  None of my 70s cars suffer these problems. 

The older cars could be restored, or upgraded to newer features.  The recent cars are "disposable", too complex to rebuild, soon no parts will be available.  As the computers & plastic drive trains quit, the only way to keep them running will be to degrade their complex systems to something simpler. 

Bruce Roe

[Glen]

I once had to drive through a huge flooded pothole to enter the expressway.  Then traffic forced me to hit the brake, and the car instantly went sideways.

Yep when there was a possibility of getting the brakes wet you automatically applied the brakes lightly to dry them out.  I still do that with the ‘03 S10. 

Some brakes were better than others.   Good ones had a feature on the edge of the drum that reduced the water splash into the drum.  You also had to be sure the mechanic replaced the plug on the adjustment hole.   

[Jim Beard]

I have noticed more and more people that are getting into the hobby, young and old, that are stopping by my shop for advice or need help working on older cars especially prewar stuff. One problem I do see is the lack of businesses that will work on older cars. I recently had a guy with a 1939 LaSalle come in who had an exhaust manifold leak and he took it to all the local muffler shops and nobody would touch it. I gladly took the job, fixed it for him and now I have a happy customer that will come back in the future whenever he needs help. At the local high school they have an auto tech class and a good sized shop. A couple times a month local guys with old cars will bring them in and have the kids help them do maintenance on them and give them a lesson in history by showing them how simple some old cars can be, and still get 20mpg! As for the previous discussed point of modifying older cars with newer technology, that has been happening since cars were invented. Anything new is old stuff that has been improved. I think as time goes on it will get harder to find certain parts for less popular cars making people switch to the newer tech out of necessity. I have cars that are modified with new tech and also have cars that are running original. I like old cars with new tech and I also like the challenge of keeping the original engines in the cars and the feel you get from driving an original 70 year old car.  I do not think the hobby will die out, it will just change and evolve like it has since people fell in love with the automobile.

[AHBrown]

[I do not think the hobby will die out, it will just change and evolve like it has since people fell in love with the automobile.]

That is why I made the topic "as we know it"