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Hydromatic Transmission issues, 1956 Cadillac CDV

Started by Christopher Petti, May 09, 2011, 10:53:49 PM

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Christopher Petti

May 09, 2011, 10:53:49 PM
I hope my transmission isn't trashed. :o
  I've driven this car for two summers and it has performed really well. Just recently I got it out of storage. I checked the fluids and everything was fine. I recently took it on a 150 mile trip and it started shifting funny once i got there. It took for ever to shift into second. I would let off the gas then hit it again and it would shift. Not so much 2nd to 3rd.  On my way back from my destination the tranny didn't want to shift from 2nd to 3rd. So I got all the way home and checked my dipstick to see transmission fluid that was really low on my dipstick and fluid that was not pink, more of a dark red. and it was really dark on my terry cloth rag. OH BOY I'm freaking out. I am also getting a little white smoke from the drivers side exhaust. With that being said I didn't sleep well last night. I went over to the car today and added a pint and a half to the transmission. It didn't go into drive very easily today. It tool about 3 seconds after I shifted it into drive to go into gear. Then  As I drove it around the large parking lot warming up the transmission it started shifting better. I drove the car for about ten minutes going through all three gears then checked the fluid and it seemed to be where it should be on the dipstick but it still hang shifts a little. I'm changing the fluid and filter. and going to check for vacuum hose leaks. What does this sound like? I hope it's OK once I put the correct amount of fluid back in and clean. I'm just worried that damage was done and new fluid isn't going to make a difference.

Chris
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

#1
May 09, 2011, 11:04:40 PM
How long was it "in storage"?

These old hydramatics sometimes don't shift as nice as they should if they have been
sitting too long.

My '55 hydramatic will do this -- although your '56 tranny is the first of the "jetaway"
series, I think the same rules apply.

Change the fluid & filter as you mentioned, then drive it.  I think you'll be OK.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Christopher Petti

#2
May 09, 2011, 11:12:37 PM
The car sat for about 5 months, I took it out here and there on nice days but I would say from December to May. I am going to say my prayers on this one. This transmission has always been really nice and I haven't had an issue. Thats why this change is so noticable.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Roger Zimmermann

#3
May 10, 2011, 03:08:54 AM
Christopher, first your transmission has 4 speed, not 3. The first one is very short, you barely notice when it goes in the 2. step.
Those transmissions are robust, but they don't last forever...How many miles has the transmission? Was it overhauled once?
On most Hydramatics I'm overhauling, the very thin seals from the front unit coupling were never replces because either people don't know how to remove the cover or are lazy. If the seals are dry, they cannot hold the pressure and no second or 4th speed...

By the way, your transmission has a screen, not a filter. Just clean it, it may do wonders.
The first transmission I did this year was so dirty inside that the screen was covered with a coat of hard dirt; the oil pump could not suck the oil...The car came from the US, it had the typically "Maintenance proudly made in the USA"!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

veesixteen

#4
May 10, 2011, 07:20:58 AM
This is no criticism of anyone's spelling (don't we come in all shapes and sizes?) but we should try to respect "trademarks" and "copyright".
The correct terms for some of  GM/Cadillac terms are "Hydra-Matic", with the TWO upper case letters, as shown, "Autronic-Eye" headlight dimmer, "E-Z-Eye  glass" tinted windows, "Twilight Sentinel" temporary driveway lighting.  I'm sure there are others too.
Yann Saunders, CLC #12588
Compiler and former keeper of "The Cadillac Database"
aka "MrCadillac", aka "Veesixteen"

R Schroeder

#5
May 10, 2011, 07:23:57 AM
Does this tranny have a vacuum modulator. You mentioned it had white smoke at exhaust. If it does it may be bad.

J. Gomez

#6
May 10, 2011, 08:36:57 AM
Christopher,

The browning color fluid maybe a tell-tell sign there is a lot of gunk in the tranny and possible got dislodged due to the low fluid level.

The filter is a fine screen mesh and the filtration efficiency is very low that is why the recommended 25K maintenance.

I would second Roger’s suggestion the cheapest route is to drain the fluid remove the pan clean the filter and everything around the valve body and the servo/accumulator areas the best you can. Also take one extra step and empty the old fluid from the torus.

Good luck…!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Christopher Petti

#7
May 10, 2011, 09:40:25 AM
I posted a incorrect spelling. I know it must annoy you seeing it misspelled over and over again. Ahh well, I was posting not thinking about the spelling. I was more concerned with the health of my transmission. I'll try not to do that again. Thanks for the correction.   :o
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Christopher Petti

#8
May 10, 2011, 09:57:53 AM
Jose,
  I'm sorry to hear that you aren't going to be on this forum any more. You have always been the first to respond with good suggestions and recommendations. You're a good resource. I am going to take all your suggestions. Thanks Jose.

Chris
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Christopher Petti

#9
May 10, 2011, 10:12:18 AM
Roger,
  The transmission has 100K miles on it. Was it overhauled once? I don't know. I talked to the previous owner a few times and their knowledge was limited. I knew it had a screen from the last time I changed the fluid. I was a little stressed out about the tranny yesterday so like spelling Hyda-Matic wrong I also said Filter. I'm going to go over the whole set up and see what's going on in there.  So I should read the manual a little more, is it a 3 speed with an overdrive? I just cleaned the screeen last year and put new fluid into it. I'll look into those seals that you are talking about in the front unit coupling. Thanks Roger, I''m crossing my fingers. The car has been driving amazing up till this point. I never noticed the transmission fluid leak or anything. Thats what i don't get. I know the browning of the fluid tells me there's damage I jsut hope it's not too severe.

Chris

PS. The car sat in a Museum for years and when I got it the car was driving like a champ, This has been the first transmission issue I've confronted.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Christopher Petti

#10
May 10, 2011, 10:14:35 AM
I have to look at the manual but I'm pretty sure it does have a vacuum modulator.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

CEC #20099

#11
May 10, 2011, 10:23:41 AM
Christopher: That trans has an external oil cooler on the right side of the engine. It uses the engine coolant to remove heat from the trans fluid. I had one that got so bad that I had to clean it out with acid, to restore its operation. My trans fluid had turned brown in less than 100 miles. I`m sure there are other threads on 56 Dual Coupling Hydra Matics, as they were by far the worst year.

c chleboun #20099

Christopher Petti

#12
May 10, 2011, 11:07:44 AM
"everything around the valve body and the servo/accumulator areas the best you can. Also take one extra step and empty the old fluid from the torus. "

Explain, I'll look at the manual but I don't know what these are.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Roger Zimmermann

#13
May 10, 2011, 12:24:20 PM
I will make a detour about Yann spelling and call this transmission a "Jetaway" as they are known in the transmission business!
This transmission has no vacuum modulator.
Due to the fact that the transmission has no torque converter but a fluid coupling, a very short first gear is a necessity to let move the whole thing. The 4th. speed is 1:1.
The front unit coupling is described on pages 12-77 and 12-78 in the '56 shop manual. Be careful if you remove yourself the coupling cover: the bronze thrust washer and the steel one are mislabelled in the book. The first washer to go into the driving torus assembly is the steel washer. It was corrected with a service bulletin. Cadillac is also doing mistakes!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

J. Gomez

#14
May 10, 2011, 07:34:47 PM
Quote from: Christopher Petti on May 10, 2011, 11:07:44 AM
"everything around the valve body and the servo/accumulator areas the best you can. Also take one extra step and empty the old fluid from the torus. "

Explain, I'll look at the manual but I don't know what these are.

Christopher,

Oops sorry for leaving you hanging..!

The front plate would needs to be removed to gain access to the torus drain plug, but the starter needs to be removed first which is a pain. The torus holds about 1/3 of a quart so ignore my previous comment. 

The valve body and servo/accumulator are easily view once the filter is removed; Fig 12-65 on the shop manual shows the location for these.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Christopher Petti

#15
May 10, 2011, 10:48:50 PM
Thanks for all the Help Jose,
  I am putting in a new speedometer cable in, do I need to spray liquid graphite into it before it's intalled? Or do I install the new one as is?
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Christopher Petti

#16
May 10, 2011, 11:58:05 PM
The diagram on 12-65 is perfect.
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Christopher Petti

#17
May 11, 2011, 09:27:00 PM
OK,
  The Trans is coming out, Would changing the main seal here be an option? I was told that it's a rope seal and it is a really difficult job. The guy that looked at it said he may have to pull the engine.  :-[
And uses too much gas
Some folks say it's too old
And that it goes too fast
But my love is bigger than a Honda
It's bigger than a Subaru
Hey man there's only one thing
And one car that will do
Anyway we don't have to drive it
Honey we can park it out in back
And have a party in your pink Cadillac

Roger Zimmermann

#18
May 12, 2011, 02:08:21 AM
Christopher, if you are removing the transmission, the rear of the engine has to be supported in one way or the other if you don't want that the distributor is pushing the firewall!
Yes, the rear seal is an infamous rope. Best Gasket is selling a neoprene seal which can be inserted without removing the crankshaft. I did that on my '57 Brougham with success. Prior to that, I tried certainly 3 time to "improve" the rope seal, without success. I intend to try that new seal on my '56 de Ville.

Roger
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

dplotkin

#19
May 12, 2011, 09:47:30 PM
I have some recent experience with the controlled coupling, A.K.A. "Jetaway" in the 56 Cadillac automobile. Mine would come out of 4th at speed or load. It shifted clumsily and was generally a wounded animal. This transmission in original condition is known for failure. It is not a matter of if, but when.

When we got mine apart we found plugs on the side of the front unit coupling had worked loose so it couldn't hold fluid. We found the reverse cone clutch in tough shape and oddly enough the bellhousing shaft bushing had pulled out. The front coupling has spaghetti seals that harden & leak.

Hold your nose or bite the bullet and have a master kit put in and pray you won't need need too many hard parts. Mine cost $2,600 but now its perfect...for being not one of GM's better achievements.

Dan
56 Fleetwood Sixty Special (Starlight silver over Dawn Grey)
60 Buick Electra six window
60 Chrysler 300 F Coupe
61 Plymouth Savoy Ram Inducted 413 Superstock
62 Pontiac Bonneville Vista
63 Chevy Impala convertable
63 Ford Galaxie XL fastback
65 Corvette convertable 396
68 Chrysler New Yorker
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